We don't need your advice: Muslim leader to Musharraf

[Kharian_Beast]

Muslim Indians are well aware how pakistani punjabis have solved the problems of bengalis, sindhis, baluchis and setting out to solve currently the problems of the pashtuns. They know how religious ideology can be misused to rule others in the name of brotherhood. They are far safer in India than the bengalis and baluchis have been at the hands of pakistani punjabis. Madani just made this quite clear without being as brazen and disrespectful to his hosts as Musharraf was about their "condition". Next time even that might be conveyed.

Don't worry about Pakistan's domestic issues which you are painting with your brush of disinformation, worry about the minorities your government is burning, torturing, and extinguishing in India. Next time maybe Musharraf should point these things out right on your faces to get the crowd really going, instead of come in a humble manner seeking peace.

 

[godsavetheworld]

I don't think hes a Hindu in disguise, but I do think he has his masters. If these are the views of Indian Muslims, then they are the biggest roadblock to peace between our two nations. They are used as pawns to deflect honest debate before it can even take place by their masters.

An honest debate begins with freedom of speech. He is the repesentative of Indian Muslims in the Indian Parliament. I dont understand this flimsy arguement. You think peace will come to the region if Indian Muslims change their views? Muslims in India love Sachin Tendulkar as much as Hindus in India love Sania Mirza. We love A.R rehman as much as Lata Mangeshkar. It is a part of our upbringing. We were brought up on love, not hate. And that is secularism.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

An honest debate begins with freedom of speech. He is the repesentative of Indian Muslims in the Indian Parliament. I dont understand this flimsy arguement. You think peace will come to the region if Indian Muslims change their views? Muslims in India love Sachin Tendulkar as much as Hindus in India love Sania Mirza.

With freedom comes responsibility, something a so called ''leader'' should be well acquainted with when making useless scathing remarks at a time when even a tiny spark could cause a wildfire.

I doubt he is representing his entire constituency with such shallow remarks.


Sachin Tendulkar and Sania Mirza have nothing to do with this thread.

 

[godsavetheworld]

With freedom comes responsibility, something a so called ''leader'' should be well acquainted with when making useless scathing remarks at a time when even a tiny spark could cause a wildfire.

I doubt he is representing his entire constituency with such shallow remarks.


Sachin Tendulkar and Sania Mirza have nothing to do with this thread.

If you seriously hate Hindu-Muslim friendship so much, then no matter how much you crib about it, no matter how many mujahideen you send in to displace Kashmiri Pandits. Hindu's and Muslim will continue to love each other.
What you are going to incite by sending in messiah's of Hindu hatred, is not a hindu muslim war, but a greater hate towards those who think secularism is communalism

 

[zombie]

Don't worry about Pakistan's domestic issues which you are painting with your brush of disinformation, worry about the minorities your government is burning, torturing, and extinguishing in India. Next time maybe Musharraf should point these things out right on your faces to get the crowd really going, instead of come in a humble manner seeking peace.

you quote about pakistani domestic issues when your ex president was interfering about indian domestic issues. and you have also in your post. First follow your own advise.
Didnt you hear what madani implied to pakistanis---"Shut up"!!!.

 

[dabong1]

no matter how many mujahideen you send in to displace Kashmiri Pandits. Hindu's and Muslim will continue to love each other.

I hope you have also counted the amount of muslim kashmirs that the indian army has "displaced".

What you are going to incite by sending in messiah's of Hindu hatred, is not a hindu muslim war, but a greater hate towards those who think secularism is communalism

Not really.....its about freedom and democracy
Trying to wrap it up in the shroud of hatred is flawed,there are plenty of hindu "mujahideen" fighting alongside the muslims in getting rid of indian occupation.

The United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan (UNCIP) passed a resolution on January 5, 1949 wherein it was agreed that “the question of the accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to India or Pakistan will be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite.” The resolution was negotiated with both India and Pakistan and accepted by all five members of the Commission, Argentina, Belgium, Columbia, Czechoslovakia and the United States. Professor Joseph Korbel, father of Dr. Madeleine Albright was the Chairman of the Commission at the time.

Mr. Setalwad, another Indian delegate spoke during the 572nd meeting of the Security Council on January 31, 1952, “I was the first to declare that the people of Jammu and Kashmir should freely decide their own future.”

In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on 25th November, 1947, Pandit Nehru said, "In order to establish our bonafide, we have suggested that when the people are given the chance to decide their future, this should be done under the supervision of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations Organisation. The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked force should decide the future or the will of the people".

In a letter dated 11th September, 1951, to the U.N. representative, Pandit Nehru wrote, "The Government of India not only reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of the continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India shall be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite under the auspices of the United Nations but is anxious that the conditions necessary for such a plebiscite should be created as quickly as possible".

 

[Kharian_Beast]

If you seriously hate Hindu-Muslim friendship so much, then no matter how much you crib about it, no matter how many mujahideen you send in to displace Kashmiri Pandits. Hindu's and Muslim will continue to love each other.
What you are going to incite by sending in messiah's of Hindu hatred, is not a hindu muslim war, but a greater hate towards those who think secularism is communalism

I never said anything against Hindu-Muslim relations. This is about Pak-Indo relations. We know how you show each other love in India...by destroying each others houses of worship, burning groups of people alive, or simply raping and executing at random, Indians are the best at living side by side with each other we can all see that. The point is though an ex statesman from our country went to yours to rehabilitate a peace process that is constantly being derailed, and he met further agents of derailment instead of understanding.

India is to secularism as Apartheid was to freedom.

 

[rubyjackass]

I am surprised to see all this.
I have been under the idea that many Pakistanis are thinking that Musharraf is going to use this trip as a launchpad to his new innings.
Was I wrong?
If not, all this can explained from the book.
Even the discussions and debate on this thread can be explained.

 

[Khajur]

I never said anything against Hindu-Muslim relations. This is about Pak-Indo relations. We know how you show each other love in India...by destroying each others houses of worship, burning groups of people alive, or simply raping and executing at random, Indians are the best at living side by side with each other we can all see that. The point is though an ex statesman from our country went to yours to rehabilitate a peace process that is constantly being derailed, and he met further agents of derailment instead of understanding.

India is to secularism as Apartheid was to freedom.

Come on,u want me to remind u about situation in pakistan.

Hello,there are more muslims who get killed in by their fellow muslim brothers in shia/sunni sectarian violence in pakistan each yr than the Nos of muslims who died in Gujarat riots in india.And now u & musharraf dare talk about atrocities aganist muslims in india.

Every other day there are terrorists attacks & bomb blasts that happen on places of worship like mosques & Dargahs in pakistan like nowhere in the whole world and still dare talk about demolition of Babri masjid in india.

Ur Govt dont even recognize Ahmadiyya Muslim Community living in pakistan as 'muslims' and u still dare to say ,u care about indian muslims.

Mark my words ,pakistan & pakistanis would be last ones to teach us indian about democracy, secularism,religious tolerance.Thank u.

 

[blain2]

Contrary to what you posted Blain, there is indeed a reason why Pakistani Muslims are in denial about Indian Hindu's and Muslims getting along. That is because Pakistan has been founded on the base of the logic that Hindu's and Muslims CANNOT get along.

Thus if they see Hindu's and Muslims getting along in India, the logic for the creation of Pakistan is challenged. And thus, the denial-that Muslims in "Hindu India"(as they are taught in Pakistan) are oppressed. This justifies Pakistan for them.

No we could care less (we are not the Pakistan and Pakistanis of 1948 who had the memories of the carnage and all the machinations that went on vis a vis the Hindus and Muslims). Pakistan's sole concern is the Kashmir issue. The concern for the shoddy treatment of the Indian Muslims is in the same league as what we voice about the shoddy treatment of Palestinians at the hands of the Israelis or elsewhere.

We do not sit around reminding ourselves about the challenges of Indian Muslims day and night to justify the existence of Pakistan. You folks need to revise what you are taught through your media and pundits about the Pakistani psyche. What you describe is a very rudimentary understanding of the situation.

The more empowered the Indian Muslims become, the better the chance of rapprochement between Pakistan and India. We have no reason to fear Indian Muslims and Hindus getting along. Most of the Pakistanis have a different understanding of the situation specially after by force of arms, East Pakistan was ceded away. The reality is that Muslims in South Asia can survive alone or as part of a multi-religious polity. In the end, as long as Muslims are free to do what they want to do without persecution, we are fine with it.

 

[blain2]

It would also give better perspective to Pakistani's to know that they had already attempted what India did in '71.

The sending over of Pakistani Army personnel as 'Mujahid's' in Kashmir for starting an uprising AND SABOTAGING Indian Military installations in '65. The Pakistani populace however is conveniently fed a lie that India attacked Pakistan unilaterally and was unprovoked! Please answer that question blain, why are they taught something historically wrong? Why were the war diaries of PA personnel destroyed?

Before that-in 1947, again, PA regulars as Muhajids in Kashmir.

So maybe Pakistani populace should keep these things in mind before thinking about the '71 war which would (rightly) leave a bad image in their mind.

My friend, Kashmir was a disputed area contested by both. East Pakistan was not! Get the facts straight before comparing Apples with Oranges.

Pakistan has always played within the realm of that dispute. 1948, Operation Gibraltar (1965), Siachen, Kargil, these are all within the realm of the overall Kashmir dispute. You need to understand that India is not the "uncontested" master of these areas. There are unresolved issues to be settled.

You guys have only had an inkling of what it feels like to be invaded across what you firmly believe to be yours (attacks on Mumbai and ND in the past) which is inside of India proper (not suggesting that anything of this sort should go on nor am I supporting the crackpots who do these things). Then consider the Indian response, aiding and abetting and then eventual invasion of Pakistan proper in 1971. You can cry about militants hitting at the heart of India etc. but the precedence that your leadership has set with 1971 dismemberment of Pakistan makes all else look like a child's play.

Instead of playing the victim constantly, it would do good to understand what needs to be done to patch up with the other side. If you have suspicions, then ours are 5x time greater about your intentions and the way you have acted against the interests of Pakistan.

 

[vkurian]

My friend, Kashmir was a disputed area contested by both. East Pakistan was not! Get the facts straight before comparing Apples with Oranges.

Pakistan has always played within the realm of that dispute. 1948, Operation Gibraltar (1965), Siachen, Kargil, these are all within the realm of the overall Kashmir dispute. You need to understand that India is not the "uncontested" master of these areas. There are unresolved issues to be settled.

You guys have only had an inkling of what it feels like to be invaded across what you firmly believe to be yours (attacks on Mumbai and ND in the past) which is inside of India proper (not suggesting that anything of this sort should go on nor am I supporting the crackpots who do these things). Then consider the Indian response, aiding and abetting and then eventual invasion of Pakistan proper in 1971. You can cry about militants hitting at the heart of India etc. but the precedence that your leadership has set with 1971 dismemberment of Pakistan makes all else look like a child's play.

Instead of playing the victim constantly, it would do good to understand what needs to be done to patch up with the other side. If you have suspicions, then ours are 5x time greater about your intentions and the way you have acted against the interests of Pakistan.

But brother going forward how do we set this historical so called wrong act of 1971 right as two nations we have to move forward. The present generation can't be hostage to this animosity.

We as educated people have to debate on way forward so that both nations grow and prosper. If all nations in the world thought as we do then no development would have happened in this world.

We members on this forum can show our love for country by showing hatred towards the members from other country. We can afford to do it coz we are far away from our homes leading comfortable lives but the man on the street in India and Pakistan who is worried where he will get the next meal from is not bothered. For him the biggest issue is how to manage his daily needs let us all spare a moment for him.

Looking at the face of a poor Indian or Pakistani kid can we talk of nuking him or her? We are Indians and Pakistanis but human beings first. Our hate talk time pass will only create more hard line thought process in both countries and the real sufferers of this is the innocent poor people of both countries.

So I request the like minded forum members to also suggest ways and means to move forward in peaceful coexistence. Let us not talk like RAW and ISI people or on assumptions but as common people of both countries.

 

[HAIDER]

We can expect this type of response to Mush, cuz Muslims, a class lower then Dalits, majority Hindu take them as traitors or terrorist, living on the edge. They have no choice just to respond that way to show their allegiance with state. Otherwise they might receive more back lash from Hindu extremist parties. But again i said before root cause of terrorism lies in poverty and tyranny.

 

[dabong1]

But brother going forward how do we set this historical so called wrong act of 1971 right as two nations we have to move forward. The present generation can't be hostage to this animosity.

We as educated people have to debate on way forward so that both nations grow and prosper. If all nations in the world thought as we do then no development would have happened in this world.

We members on this forum can show our love for country by showing hatred towards the members from other country. We can afford to do it coz we are far away from our homes leading comfortable lives but the man on the street in India and Pakistan who is worried where he will get the next meal from is not bothered. For him the biggest issue is how to manage his daily needs let us all spare a moment for him.

Looking at the face of a poor Indian or Pakistani kid can we talk of nuking him or her? We are Indians and Pakistanis but human beings first. Our hate talk time pass will only create more hard line thought process in both countries and the real sufferers of this is the innocent poor people of both countries.

So I request the like minded forum members to also suggest ways and means to move forward in peaceful coexistence. Let us not talk like RAW and ISI people or on assumptions but as common people of both countries.

What do you think we should do about kashmir?.......if we solve that then there are no problems.

 

[Bhishma]

What do you think we should do about kashmir?.......if we solve that then there are no problems.

Simple. Stop supporting the separatists and jehadis, morally or materially. Declare the LOC as IB and be done with it.

Say hello to peace and prosperity.