Was Russia enticed to invade Ukarine?

[nahtanbob]

Hi members,

It is just a thought that somehow US wanted Russia to indulge in a preferrably long war so that it can drian Russia as a threat to 'real' NATO (pun) so that It can focus on Pacific. China had been world's workhorse since centuries. It got idle in 19th and 20th century but regained its ancient status. See this documentary to understand more.

Now, if there is any power which can challange the US is China. China has become economic power and expanding its Naval and missile capabilities. However, China's open access to Pacific and Indian occean is 'blocked' by its neighbours. US or its allies 'controlling' seas through Philapines, Taiwan, Okinawa, SK, India, Australia etc means that it is pivotal for the US to dominate seas so that it has some bargain against China's trade. We know that tarde mainly occurrs through sea. So think sea security is a cuurency or 'tribute' which can be cashed China's trade.

So, the win-win for the US is that either Ukarine become part of NATO and Russia accepts that, or Russia invades it. As IK said the US politicians can have 'good wars' as long as it can benefit the US. So, Russian invasion can be a good omen for the EU as it can prolong, even if it doesn't Russia will be sanctioned. Therefore, even if Russian increases its trade with China, (China cannot be sanctioned for that) so securing China's lifeline (sea routes) is like controlling Russia's life line. I know 70-80% EU's gas imports are from Russia, but Russia won't stop that as it is good money.

Your thoughts.

@gambit @PanzerKiel @Joe Shearer

Can russia survive without sale of natural gas to the EU ? They can shift their sales to China. In the long run dependence on China is worse than losing Ukraine

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Can russia survive without sale of natural gas to the EU ? They can shift their sales to China. In the long run dependence on China is worse than losing Ukraine

US will be happy to sell Oil and gas to EU at uber high prices.

 

[Oldman1]

Hi members,

It is just a thought that somehow US wanted Russia to indulge in a preferrably long war so that it can drian Russia as a threat to 'real' NATO (pun) so that It can focus on Pacific. China had been world's workhorse since centuries. It got idle in 19th and 20th century but regained its ancient status. See this documentary to understand more.

Now, if there is any power which can challange the US is China. China has become economic power and expanding its Naval and missile capabilities. However, China's open access to Pacific and Indian occean is 'blocked' by its neighbours. US or its allies 'controlling' seas through Philapines, Taiwan, Okinawa, SK, India, Australia etc means that it is pivotal for the US to dominate seas so that it has some bargain against China's trade. We know that tarde mainly occurrs through sea. So think sea security is a cuurency or 'tribute' which can be cashed China's trade.

So, the win-win for the US is that either Ukarine become part of NATO and Russia accepts that, or Russia invades it. As IK said the US politicians can have 'good wars' as long as it can benefit the US. So, Russian invasion can be a good omen for the EU as it can prolong, even if it doesn't Russia will be sanctioned. Therefore, even if Russian increases its trade with China, (China cannot be sanctioned for that) so securing China's lifeline (sea routes) is like controlling Russia's life line. I know 70-80% EU's gas imports are from Russia, but Russia won't stop that as it is good money.

Your thoughts.

@gambit @PanzerKiel @Joe Shearer

No, otherwise we be telling Russia yeah go get them Nazis!!! As they described them. Bomb them, bomb them again!!! Instead you see the U.S. and European countries trying to negotiate with Putin to find an alternative to the situation. But Putin's demands is ridiculous. Putin has already lost the initiative and surprise, now the world including his own people are going against him. The Ukrainians are resisting and not welcoming the Russian Army with open arms like you see in Crimea because they know they are Russians not Green Men claiming to be Ukrainian soldiers that decided to be part of Russia. This is already worse than I fear now with what's happening with European countries bordering Ukraine. Besides the U.S. an U.K. supplying arms but Europeans are now stepping up with the fighter jets and drones from Turkey along with top of the line equipment besides anti tank missiles, but sniper rifles, other small arms, body armor, NVGs, etc. All this encourages Ukrainians to keep fighting. Not to mention thousands of volunteers coming from around the world to join the fight.

Putin has put himself in a situation thats just gone to hell. He presented as helping to liberate Ukraine by looking like they fighting Nazis, but if you bomb Kiev like Grozny or some flattened city, you are not a liberator of the supposed brothers and sisters next door, you are a murderer. And even if by remote chance he was able to replace with a new government, its already out of the bag that the Ukrainian people know its a puppet of Putin and will have no respect for such a government and will keep resisting.

 

[khansaheeb]

Hi members,

It is just a thought that somehow US wanted Russia to indulge in a preferrably long war so that it can drian Russia as a threat to 'real' NATO (pun) so that It can focus on Pacific. China had been world's workhorse since centuries. It got idle in 19th and 20th century but regained its ancient status. See this documentary to understand more.

Now, if there is any power which can challange the US is China. China has become economic power and expanding its Naval and missile capabilities. However, China's open access to Pacific and Indian occean is 'blocked' by its neighbours. US or its allies 'controlling' seas through Philapines, Taiwan, Okinawa, SK, India, Australia etc means that it is pivotal for the US to dominate seas so that it has some bargain against China's trade. We know that tarde mainly occurrs through sea. So think sea security is a cuurency or 'tribute' which can be cashed China's trade.

So, the win-win for the US is that either Ukarine become part of NATO and Russia accepts that, or Russia invades it. As IK said the US politicians can have 'good wars' as long as it can benefit the US. So, Russian invasion can be a good omen for the EU as it can prolong, even if it doesn't Russia will be sanctioned. Therefore, even if Russian increases its trade with China, (China cannot be sanctioned for that) so securing China's lifeline (sea routes) is like controlling Russia's life line. I know 70-80% EU's gas imports are from Russia, but Russia won't stop that as it is good money.

Your thoughts.

@gambit @PanzerKiel @Joe Shearer

China has a railway link to Europe through Russia and this will be terminated because of the war and as a result damage China. This may or may not benefit Pakistan as China may have to use the KK pass and Gwadar more or find an alternative route through Afghanistan.

No, otherwise we be telling Russia yeah go get them Nazis!!! As they described them. Bomb them, bomb them again!!! Instead you see the U.S. and European countries trying to negotiate with Putin to find an alternative to the situation. But Putin's demands is ridiculous. Putin has already lost the initiative and surprise, now the world including his own people are going against him. The Ukrainians are resisting and not welcoming the Russian Army with open arms like you see in Crimea because they know they are Russians not Green Men claiming to be Ukrainian soldiers that decided to be part of Russia. This is already worse than I fear now with what's happening with European countries bordering Ukraine. Besides the U.S. an U.K. supplying arms but Europeans are now stepping up with the fighter jets and drones from Turkey along with top of the line equipment besides anti tank missiles, but sniper rifles, other small arms, body armor, NVGs, etc. All this encourages Ukrainians to keep fighting. Not to mention thousands of volunteers coming from around the world to join the fight.

Putin has put himself in a situation thats just gone to hell. He presented as helping to liberate Ukraine by looking like they fighting Nazis, but if you bomb Kiev like Grozny or some flattened city, you are not a liberator of the supposed brothers and sisters next door, you are a murderer. And even if by remote chance he was able to replace with a new government, its already out of the bag that the Ukrainian people know its a puppet of Putin and will have no respect for such a government and will keep resisting.

What we are seeing is while the Russian tanks and vehicles are rumbling on the roads the Ukrainian civilians are going about their normal business and driving pass the convoys. Never seen anything like it before. They obviously don't see Russia as the enemy, it's only the NATO sponsored gov resistance who are fighting.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

What we are seeing is while the Russian tanks and vehicles are rumbling on the roads the Ukrainian civilians are going about their normal business and driving pass the convoys. Never seen anything like it before. They obviously don't see Russia as the enemy, it's only the NATO sponsored gov resistance who are fighting.

Neither the Russians see Ukrainians as their enemy nor Ukrainians see Russians as their enemy. Racially and culturally they are the same.

They fought together against the Nazis in WWII and then the NATO during the cold war.

This war is being thrust on them but the incumbent Ukrainian regime propped up by NATO.

 

[tower9]

Neither the Russians see Ukrainians as their enemy nor Ukrainians see Russians as their enemy. Racially and culturally they are the same.

They fought together against the Nazis in WWII and then the NATO during the cold war.

This war is being thrust on them but the incumbent Ukrainian regime propped up by NATO.

they are the same people really. It’s the zionist demons who are agitating tensions and creating hatred like they usually do.

 

[Oldman1]

China has a railway link to Europe through Russia and this will be terminated because of the war and as a result damage China. This may or may not benefit Pakistan as China may have to use the KK pass and Gwadar more or find an alternative route through Afghanistan.

What we are seeing is while the Russian tanks and vehicles are rumbling on the roads the Ukrainian civilians are going about their normal business and driving pass the convoys. Never seen anything like it before. They obviously don't see Russia as the enemy, it's only the NATO sponsored gov resistance who are fighting.

Some are going on with their business but you probably haven't see other unarmed civilians blocking Russian vehicles from progressing.

 

[khansaheeb]

Some are going on with their business but you probably haven't see other unarmed civilians blocking Russian vehicles from progressing.

Maybe the ones who watch too much Fox News are blocking Russian vehicles.

 

[Oldman1]

Maybe the ones who watch too much Fox News are blocking Russian vehicles.

Nah, they don't have to watch Fox News to be persuaded to block Russian vehicles.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Some are going on with their business but you probably haven't see other unarmed civilians blocking Russian vehicles from progressing.

Yes we saw that Russian military did even bother to shoot them.

The relations between protesting citizens and their own army in many countries is much more dangerous than between Russian Army and the Ukrainian people.

 

[Oldman1]

Yes we saw that Russian military did even bother to shoot them.

The relations between protesting citizens and their own army in many countries is much more dangerous than between Russian Army and the Ukrainian people.

Pretty much defeats the purpose of the objective if they tried to do that. Which as many posters mentioned about flatten Kiev to get it to surrender.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Pretty much defeats the purpose of the objective if they tried to do that. Which as many posters mentioned about flatten Kiev to get it to surrender.

Russians are not even interested in killing the Ukrainian military let alone Ukrainian civilians.

Russia just want to destroy the Ukrainian military capability and install a regime that is neutral and acts as a buffer between NATO and Russia.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Russia is invading Ukraine not Austria. The fact that Russia has to fight to keep a country that was the breadbasket of its empire within its sphere of influence just shows you how far Russia has fallen and how deep the US has penetrated Russia’s sphere.

Exactly.

The sad thing is an Eastern block country taught for decades by big brother that their evil Western neighbors are thinking about invading them finds out their big brother is actually the one they should have been worried about.

Now all their little brothers are worried.

 

[Oldman1]

Russians are not even interested in killing the Ukrainian military let alone Ukrainian civilians.

Russia just want to destroy the Ukrainian military capability and install a regime that is neutral and acts as a buffer between NATO and Russia.

Not interested? You seen what's going on right now? It's a rhetorical question, but have you seen it? How many Ukrainian military personnel have been killed and wounded? How many Russian casualties? To destroy Ukraines military capability or demilitarize all of Ukraine, you have to pretty much have to conquer it by killing/destroying the military cause they are not giving up.

Exactly.

The sad thing is an Eastern block country taught for decades by big brother that their evil Western neighbors are thinking about invading them finds out their big brother is actually the one they should have been worried about.

Now all their little brothers are worried.

Not to mention many of the former satellite states of the Soviet Union including Poland is providing weapons and other supplies. They know whats up with Russia.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Not interested? You seen what's going on right now? It's a rhetorical question, but have you seen it? How many Ukrainian military personnel have been killed and wounded? How many Russian casualties? To destroy Ukraines military capability or demilitarize all of Ukraine, you have to pretty much have to conquer it by killing/destroying the military cause they are not giving up.

Ukrainian military and people are being held as hostages by the incumbent Ukrainian regime.