Was iqbal a cruel hoax?

[r3alist]

I have been interested in learning more about iqbal for a while and had grown to love his poetry, his spirit, his brilliant penetrating mind and the love he had for his people.

in summary i was fully confident that the spiritual grandfather of pakistan was a man worthy of the admiration of muslims and people of pakistan.


now my problem came when i came across this most penetrating and well written essay, an essay that has actually bothered me.

Faith - To Inspire And To Indoctrinate: Allama Iqbal - marde-momin or superman?

i had always known iqbal was awarded a knighthood but perhaps being blinded by his poetry it failed to dawn upon me that a knighthood is only awarded to those who serve empire, so can it really be true that this man i so admire was a cruel hoax? nothing more than sophisticated and articulate tool of empire used to divide the people of south asia?

the article explains his alleged "deception" and "hoax" in full.

Faith - To Inspire And To Indoctrinate: Allama Iqbal - marde-momin or superman?

"Seduction always comes wrapped in attractive garb. Unless it can attract, it is not seducing."


just a final note, i still have great respect for iqbal, but i am troubled by some of the points made in the essay, can anyone counter the points made?

 

[airmarshal]

PTI has got nothing to do with it.

Iqbal was a great philosopher. But we being semi literate or almost illiterate nation (I include those who call themselves well educated and speak English as if its their mother tongue) has little or no value for the wisdom Iqbal has given us.

Iqbal's message is a message of freedom. Its not for the Muslims of subcontinent, its for all Muslim world. The Muslim world is still in the clutches of slavery. Its not a period of colonialism ,but its the continuation of slavery of the west no doubt.

Look no further than the respect and admiration that the Germans give to Iqbal. Germany is a nation of great engineers, scholars and philosophers. Its a nation that admires and appreciates scholarship and academia. No wonder, its among the top nations of the world and even after total destruction on WWII, it still is one of the world's biggest economies.

See the link below and reflect on without bias if Iqbal was great or just a hoax.

Moments of Tranquility: Allama Iqbal in Heidelberg

 

[Kompromat]

So Iqbal was a hoax in your opinion just because he was awarded the "knighthood"?
@Armstrong Here is a gem

 

[hmirza]

@ r3alist

Dude... first all the use of "Sacred Cow" should've immediately given you a hint re writers pathetically twisted inclinations!
Secondly you need to correct yourself in thinking that knighthood is granted only to those who served "The Empire"! Just a lame question, how did Sir Don Bradman serve the Empire... by humiliating them over and over again?
Allama Iqbal was one of the greatest poets of all time and an inspirational leader for a Nation in despair!

 

[r3alist]

@ r3alist

Dude... first all the use of "Sacred Cow" should've immediately given you a hint re writers pathetically twisted inclinations!
Secondly you need to correct yourself in thinking that knighthood is granted only to those who served "The Empire"! Just a lame question, how did Sir Don Bradman serve the Empire... by humiliating them over and over again?
Allama Iqbal was one of the greatest poets of all time and an inspirational leader for a Nation in despair!

Iqbal is a sacred cow of sorts, i dont think its meant to insult him.

To bring up bradman is actually a nice example in support of the essay, because even though bradman destroyed england he ultimately served cricket and therefore enriched a sport of empire.

Same type of logic for iqbal, he spoke of liberation of muslims which at the time of empire was clearly not in empires interest, so what did he do for them?

 

[saiyan0321]

HUH OH my god that means "SIR" syed Ahmed (who opened the pathway to muslim education and is instrumental in creating pakistan bcz if he had not done that then there would have been no literate muslims to support and present the theory of pakistan) was a british agent. Is our creation a lie?

The title sir is knighthood but its given to those that have done great things in the empire and for the empire. For example empowering muslims with education was hardly in the benefit of the empire but he was awarded it for containing illiteracy.

Iqbal was an inspirational poet and thus for writing such great poetry.

Let me tell you a story.

In 1922 the punjab governor proposed to the british crown that Iqbal should be made a knight due to his literary work which is full of spirit and has influenced soo many. Iqbal came to the governor and told him that the award should be given to mir hassan. The governor said he has not authored a single book. Iqbal answered that he authored a book called Allama Iqbal AKA me.

This event shows that the knighthood was awarded for his literary work alone.

Something for you to contemplate on.

When Pakistan was created the Queen of england asked jinnah to be knighted but jinnah said he does not like the title sir and would just like people to call him MR jinnah. Now i think noone worked more against the empire then Jinnah but why was he being knighted?

 

[notsuperstitious]

When Pakistan was created the Queen of england asked jinnah to be knighted but jinnah said he does not like the title sir and would just like people to call him MR jinnah. Now i think noone worked more against the empire then Jinnah but why was he being knighted?

You answer your own question.

Jinnah was also in touch with Churchill's secretary secretly and never went to jail under the british raj BTW. Gandhi was not offered a knighhood and spent years and years in jail. Where do you see a contradiction in what the OP has asked? Do you disagree it was in british interests to have a fragmented sub continent so that they would always have room for one foot, either here or there???

 

[JonAsad]

So all the canny and cunning Britishers have to do is just award some sort of title "Sir" to a man- and voila his character becomes dubious- regardless of his history-

You answer your own question.

Jinnah was also in touch with Churchill's secretary secretly and never went to jail under the british raj BTW. Gandhi was not offered a knighhood.

To go to jail one has to do something utterly stupid against the Sarkar-
Gandhi was not offered Knighthood but he went to jail-

A great example still the subcontinental politicians follow- go to jail and become famous- -

 

[Jango]

Well technically, he was a British citizen (or subject) so his services would be indirectly services to the British Empire.

 

[notsuperstitious]

To go to jail one has to do something utterly stupid against the Sarkar-
Gandhi was not offered Knighthood but he went to jail-

A great example still the subcontinental politicians follow- go to jail and become famous- -

Whats more utterly stupid than to ask the sarkar to leave? Thats the greatest sin. Its totally understood why the sarkar would not knight such a person but send him to jail.

 

[saiyan0321]

You answer your own question.

Bcz in the subcontinent only creating a country in the name of ideology for people against all ODD,s is better then just asking a weak monarch to leave. Plus ghandhi was against Churchill. HOwever can you back your claims that jinnah was secretly talking to churchill.

Do you disagree it was in british interests to have a fragmented sub continent so that they would always have room for one foot, either here ot there???

considering the amount of muslims and the jazba for freedom. If they wanted to destroy india they could have easily left it alone and then the blood shed and the rebellions would have been catastrophic. If anything a disfragmented india made both countries stronger.

You are looking at land mass and resources i am looking at 35 percent muslim population wanting freedom. Do you really think a non partition solution wouldnt have led to chaos.

Whats more utterly stupid than to ask the sarkar to leave? Thats the greatest sin. Its totally understood why the sarkar would not knight such a person but send him to jail.

Jinnah wasnt all for the rule us forever option. Jinna joined congress at first and wanted to end the british rule... Even you have to agree that creating a country amidst all the planning and anti muslim propaganda was nothing short of impressive and a miracle.

 

[JonAsad]

Whats more utterly stupid than to ask the sarkar to leave? Thats the greatest sin. Its totally understood why the sarkar would not knight such a person but send him to jail.

There is a difference between utterly stupid way to ask sarkar to leave and a relatively smart way to ask the sarkar to leave-

utterly stupid ways warrants arrest-

Gandhi was arrested in Gujarat in 1918 for "creating unrest" by organizing villagers to improve their living conditions.
Four years later, in March, 1922, while promoting boycotts and civil disobedience, he was convicted of sedition and served 2 years of a 6-year sentence.
In August of 1942, Gandhi and his supporters were jailed for obstructing British efforts in World War II. He was released in May of 1944, and 100,000 of his fellow Indians were freed at the war's end, as the process of Indian independence was finally begun.

^ so many arrests automatically disqualify a person for any honors- -

 

[r3alist]

PTI has got nothing to do with it.

Iqbal was a great philosopher. But we being semi literate or almost illiterate nation (I include those who call themselves well educated and speak English as if its their mother tongue) has little or no value for the wisdom Iqbal has given us.

Iqbal's message is a message of freedom. Its not for the Muslims of subcontinent, its for all Muslim world. The Muslim world is still in the clutches of slavery. Its not a period of colonialism ,but its the continuation of slavery of the west no doubt.

Look no further than the respect and admiration that the Germans give to Iqbal. Germany is a nation of great engineers, scholars and philosophers. Its a nation that admires and appreciates scholarship and academia. No wonder, its among the top nations of the world and even after total destruction on WWII, it still is one of the world's biggest economies.

See the link below and reflect on without bias if Iqbal was great or just a hoax. Forgot the germans, do your own thinking, they do nor care for the same things that we may!!

Moments of Tranquility: Allama Iqbal in Heidelberg

If iqbal was for all muslims where was he for the ottomons? The essay makes note of this.

Anf forgot the germans, do your own thinking!

 

[r3alist]

HUH OH my god that means "SIR" syed Ahmed (who opened the pathway to muslim education and is instrumental in creating pakistan bcz if he had not done that then there would have been no literate muslims to support and present the theory of pakistan) was a british agent. Is our creation a lie?

The title sir is knighthood but its given to those that have done great things in the empire and for the empire. For example empowering muslims with education was hardly in the benefit of the empire but he was awarded it for containing illiteracy.

Iqbal was an inspirational poet and thus for writing such great poetry.

Let me tell you a story.

In 1922 the punjab governor proposed to the british crown that Iqbal should be made a knight due to his literary work which is full of spirit and has influenced soo many. Iqbal came to the governor and told him that the award should be given to mir hassan. The governor said he has not authored a single book. Iqbal answered that he authored a book called Allama Iqbal AKA me.

This event shows that the knighthood was awarded for his literary work alone.

Something for you to contemplate on.

When Pakistan was created the Queen of england asked jinnah to be knighted but jinnah said he does not like the title sir and would just like people to call him MR jinnah. Now i think noone worked more against the empire then Jinnah but why was he being knighted?

Did sir syed ahmed not advocate loyalty to britain as well as his push for education?

Well technically, he was a British citizen (or subject) so his services would be indirectly services to the British Empire.

Exactly!

The british were always very cunning, they knew how to cultivate their assets!

 

[r3alist]

You answer your own question.

Jinnah was also in touch with Churchill's secretary secretly and never went to jail under the british raj BTW. Gandhi was not offered a knighhood and spent years and years in jail. Where do you see a contradiction in what the OP has asked? Do you disagree it was in british interests to have a fragmented sub continent so that they would always have room for one foot, either here or there???

Gandhi too helped the British since his doctrine of nonviolence was music to their ears.

he may not have a knighthood but he is a cultural icon. And you dont get to be one if you are a serious threat to empire.