War started to reclaim Pakistan

[lightning F57]

Imi did his job, exposed the corrupt hypocrites and their supporters, and also highlighted that most of the nation even if they want change are unlikely to come out to protest because fear of brutality by the thugs leading the country.

 

[FuturePAF]

IK has exposed Pakistan military wrong doing to the general public. This is what I think the positive effect that will last quite long in Pakistan politics that could bring some good changes in the future. Despite he is saying it after he is desposed from power, nevertheless it is good think as before Military has always been highly supported despite their continous intervention on politics and gov institutions. With stronger civilian power that could happen in the future, there is high likely for Pakistan to limit its military overreach on civilian institution gradually.

Corruption cannot be thrown away overnight, it needs strong democracy system that can reward and punish any administration. Western government have shown that can happen, even my country can be another example of what democracy can do in positive way in some extend.

The main point of what I want to say is that, political system has to be made conducive in order for the system to be able to show good results. Conducive political system will also make the fighting happen only in the parliament, not on the street. Thus it will give political stability and good environment for businessess and investors to do business and invest in Pakistan.

Civilian supremacy has to be codified into law, in letter and spirit, and acted upon to shift the culture. That is why is is not just enough to expose but demonstrate the authority of the civilians.

One key metric will be when a prime minister has to compete their full term and have a peaceful transfer of power to the next prime minister. It has never happened in Pakistan in all 75 years, if I’m not mistaken.

Not only has the military need to operate with its constitutional limits so to do the civilians. IK can lead by example, and help build that culture.

Corruption can not be dealt with in a day, but a track record needs to be set. IK is very popular especially amongst the youth. He can use a new term to lead by example, especially by having lawyers consulted and put out self imposed restrictions and disclosures to show the people that even the prime minister is ever mindful of the law. Give daily briefings to the public to build a culture of transparency and show the country is run with the consent of the governed, ever needing to meet the needs of the people and win the next election to stay in power.

The horse trading leading up to the vote of no confidence exposed the weakness of the democratic mechanisms. The way this was done reeked of corruption and made a mockery of the rules. The legitimacy of IK’s path over the last 18 months was formed because the majority of the people felt the democratic system was just a facade.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Azadi Mange , Qurbani

If in our nation of 220 Million People 3 million Jawan can't stand up against this Injustice

Then we deserve to be slaves

War is on our Door step



Fauji
Judge
Politician

They have 25 Crore in banks they don't pay utility bill or pay petrol price

 

[Indos]

Since PTI's foundation, Imran's focus was getting rid of corruption and in that mode, he labelled EVERY other politician 'corrupt'. He made tall claims like bringing tens of billions of Dollars back to Pakistan from the foreign bank accounts of the corrupt politicians. And his message really resonated with many Pakistanis, including me. But I believe Imran's anti-corruption narrative had as much to do with tackling corruption as to do with removing any potential rival from politics. It doesn't take much to realize that Imran's single focus was on absolute power. He didn't accept that Pakistan is a complex country in which other parties too have a large vote bank. In his lust for absolute power, he didn't even groom five immediate successors, as you can see right now. And this after a so-called '27 year political struggle'??

Back to topic: As expected, no mass demonstration. People have their lives to take care of. And why would parents send their kids to danger when Imran's are sitting in their comfy home in England??

The same thing stated and pushed by liberal Indonesian in early 2000 to trial Soeharto. The same thing Mursi did to Husni Mubarak. I have already said in PDF that what Mursi did can make back lash, the same thing when I see in PDF when IK has put NS and Musarraf to jail. All of them still have their followers, like Indonesian military doesnt want to see Soeharto being jailed and humiliated.

Indonesian administration during that time never put Soeharto to jail and we see stability is more important than winning an ego.

--------------------

Does NS stole billion USD from Pakistan ?

Well does NS kids have companies like Soeharto kids have ?

---------------------------------------

Tommy Soeharto’s Humpuss Maritim to Hold IPO​

Thresa Sandra Desfika
July 17, 2023 | 5:22 pm

Jakarta. Humpuss Maritim Internasional (HUMI), an oil and gas shipping company owned by Tommy Soeharto, plans to issue up to 2.7 billion new shares during the initial public offering scheduled for next month, the company announced on Monday.

The IPO is scheduled to take place from August 1 to August 4, with Reliance Sekuritas Indonesia acting as the underwriter.

The offered price is put at Rp 100 per share as the company seeks a fresh capital of Rp 270.7 billion ($18 million).

In addition to the new shares, HUMI also plans to issue 1.35 billion warrants, giving investors the right to purchase stock at Rp 200 per share. For every two new shares purchased, investors will receive one warrant for free.

HUMI's core businesses include oil and gas tanker rentals and marine support services. Current shareholders of HUMI include Humpuss Intermoda Transportasi with 89.998 percent of shares, Humpuss Transportasi Kimia with 10 percent, and Bhakti Samudra Employee Cooperative with 0.002 percent.

Parent company Humpuss Intermoda Transportasi (HITS) has been listed on the Indonesia Stock Exchange since 1997, while HUMI’s subsidiary GTS Internasional (GTSI), has been listed since 2021.

Tommy, whose real name is Hutomo Mandala Putra, is the founder of Humpuss Group. He is the youngest son of the late President Soeharto, who served as Indonesia's president for 32 years.

Tommy Soeharto’s Humpuss Maritim to Hold IPO

The offered price is put at Rp 100 per share as the company seeks a fresh capital of Rp 270.7 billion ($18 million).

jakartaglobe.id

 

[Nasr]

Whether war has started or not, a stark reality has emerged from the recent events in Pakistan, where Pakistanis have been confronted with an existential decision to make ... either now fight in the battle of minds or to "save their skin" like cowards.

Whichever you choose, one fact will stand true, Pakistan as you all know it, will NOT exist. Choice is yours, if you hang on to dear life like a coward to save your family, your business and stuff or you stand up and fight with your mind to defeat these traitorous scum, these parasite munafiqs.

Millions will die, make no mistake about that. It is what state of Imaan you die in this fight, will determine the course of our future generations that will rise from the ashes.

The idiots will support that $wine$ that proclaim to be the leaders of the military, they are few and they are purely misguided by the devil. That's because they abandoned the Qur'an and Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam. Their end, will be a spine-chilling and horrifying one.

 

[FuturePAF]

The same thing stated and pushed by liberal Indonesian in early 2000 to trial Soeharto. The same thing Mursi did to Husni Mubarak. I have already said in PDF that what Mursi did can make back lash, the same thing when I see in PDF when IK has put NS to jail. All of them still have their followers, like Indonesian military doesnt want to see Soeharto being jailed and humiliated.

Indonesian administration during that time never put Soeharto to jail and we see stability is more important than winning an ego.

--------------------

Does NS stole billion USD from Pakistan ?

Well does NS kids have companies like Soeharto kids have ?

---------------------------------------

Tommy Soeharto’s Humpuss Maritim to Hold IPO​

Jakarta. Humpuss Maritim Internasional (HUMI), an oil and gas shipping company owned by Tommy Soeharto, plans to issue up to 2.7 billion new shares during the initial public offering scheduled for next month, the company announced on Monday.

The IPO is scheduled to take place from August 1 to August 4, with Reliance Sekuritas Indonesia acting as the underwriter.

The offered price is put at Rp 100 per share as the company seeks a fresh capital of Rp 270.7 billion ($18 million).

In addition to the new shares, HUMI also plans to issue 1.35 billion warrants, giving investors the right to purchase stock at Rp 200 per share. For every two new shares purchased, investors will receive one warrant for free.

HUMI's core businesses include oil and gas tanker rentals and marine support services. Current shareholders of HUMI include Humpuss Intermoda Transportasi with 89.998 percent of shares, Humpuss Transportasi Kimia with 10 percent, and Bhakti Samudra Employee Cooperative with 0.002 percent.

Parent company Humpuss Intermoda Transportasi (HITS) has been listed on the Indonesia Stock Exchange since 1997, while HUMI’s subsidiary GTS Internasional (GTSI), has been listed since 2021.

Tommy, whose real name is Hutomo Mandala Putra, is the founder of Humpuss Group. He is the youngest son of the late President Soeharto, who served as Indonesia's president for 32 years.

Tommy Soeharto’s Humpuss Maritim to Hold IPO

The offered price is put at Rp 100 per share as the company seeks a fresh capital of Rp 270.7 billion ($18 million).

jakartaglobe.id

It’s true, that is the biggest failure of IK. Doing what should have been the exclusive work of the judicial system. That is why institutions are important to maintaining an actual level playing field. But neither side wants to give ground, because we have a very winner take all culture. Self imposed restrictions and legally enforced restrictions need to be the norm.

IK should have used his political capital early on focused on closing the holes in the national finances and not trying to retrieve the funds already embezzled and abroad. Challenging those vested business interests and their elite capture could have brought in more FDI in a less visible divisive political environment to outside investors.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

"la ilaha illallah" bolo and prepare for war

• 220 Million Pakistan vs these handful of mafia
  • These 100-240 lawyers
  • These 30-40 judges
  • These 100-200 corrupt politicians
  • The Servant police to these
  • Fauj who is using the front man political and judicial factors for own agenda

Do you want these handful of people 1,000-15,000 corrupts to enslave you and your children for next 50 years ??????

• They have up to 25 Crore in cash in their banks
• They pay no Bills (Electricity / Water/ Gas / Petrol all free)
• They get free education for their children

Fight for your Freedom


Pakistan should have "Disbanded the Army created by Colony" and created new serving army
in 1947

Even a 5 year old today knows the Truth , what is the the truth path to free Pakistan

 

[FuturePAF]

Since PTI's foundation, Imran's focus was getting rid of corruption and in that mode, he labelled EVERY other politician 'corrupt'. He made tall claims like bringing tens of billions of Dollars back to Pakistan from the foreign bank accounts of the corrupt politicians. And his message really resonated with many Pakistanis, including me. But I believe Imran's anti-corruption narrative had as much to do with tackling corruption as to do with removing any potential rival from politics. It doesn't take much to realize that Imran's single focus was on absolute power. He didn't accept that Pakistan is a complex country in which other parties too have a large vote bank. In his lust for absolute power, he didn't even groom five immediate successors, as you can see right now. And this after a so-called '27 year political struggle'??

Back to topic: As expected, no mass demonstration. People have their lives to take care of. And why would parents send their kids to danger when Imran's are sitting in their comfy home in England??

Having said he had many flaws in his governance, regardless of his personal abilities, we need to close the narrative arch in a what benefits the country as a whole. The narrative around Qaid-e-Azam is disputed to this day, but at the end of the discussion it’s an Islamic republic that we have of our own.

Equally, at this point we need a 5 year term with IK at the helm but pushing through key reforms. Love him or hate him or just be plain tired of him, but we need this impasse to end on an upbeat tone that allows the elite and greater public to move toward a more productive future.

If IK is eliminated, someone else’s will pick up the mantle and continue the culture of “container protests”. Rumblings in KPK of “they have the watches and we have the time” won’t end well on any metric.

We NEED IK back in office, for just one more term, to accomplish our national interests. I will say, let Bilawal be FM, have a coalition government, but push through reforms that undermine the personal wealth of the elites for a time so it can come back for them and us all, ten fold in less then a generation.

Great men plant trees whose shade they will never sit underneath.

Personally I keep sharing in Air Force related threads because I know our enemies are beyond the borders, and that race to maintain parity against our true foes never ends.

But as Lincoln said when address Americans during the civil war; “We are not enemies but friends, we must not be enemies, though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection.”

 

[Meengla]

The same thing stated and pushed by liberal Indonesian in early 2000 to trial Soeharto. The same thing Mursi did to Husni Mubarak. I have already said in PDF that what Mursi did can make back lash, the same thing when I see in PDF when IK has put NS and Musarraf to jail. All of them still have their followers, like Indonesian military doesnt want to see Soeharto being jailed and humiliated.
Indonesian administration during that time never put Soeharto to jail and we see stability is more important than winning an ego.

You are a wise person and a friend of Pakistan. In fact, sane advice is coming from even Indian PDF members.
You gave good examples! From Egypt and from your own homeland. I'd add Erdogan to that list: He took power in 2003 from a corrupt elite which was backed by the Turkish Deep State. Erdogan followed a wise course: Governance, instead of witch-hunting. Imran's PDF followers are disingenuous when they say that Imran didn't have that option in 2018. He absolutely had enough political space to do reforms-- something which @FuturePAF is hinting at in his post above this. But it is not in Imran's personality to 'share' and to allow 'competition'. Imran's downfall is absolutely because of his personality.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

• YE Fauj Hamari nahi hai!
• Ye Police Hamari nahi hai!
• Ye Hakumat - Ghadaroon ne bana ker di hai!

Pakistan Azad nahi hai !!!
Apni Azadi ke Liya

Jung ki Tiyari Karo


Hatyar Uthao , aur apne Mulk Ka Difa karo

 

[fitpOsitive]

Pray, elaborate how? Anything I am not aware of?

The record of last 70 years is as follows:

Pakistan has fought several wars - conventional and insurgencies. Pakistan has lost some and barely survived others. In the meantime India has only gone from strength to strength.

India will anyway be imploded soon. Actually, I really want India to get disintegrated, but Indians themselves are at work now. I am closely monitoring what is happening on the ground in India now. I am also relating what is happening in India now to what happened in India before 1947(essentially between 1902 and 1947). I mean I already can predict a few things, but here is the summary: India will implode very soon as you guys have a very bad habit of thumping your chest on farts.

 

[ziaulislam]

India will anyway be imploded soon. Actually, I really want India to get disintegrated, but Indians themselves are at work now. I am closely monitoring what is happening on the ground in India now. I am also relating what is happening in India now to what happened in India before 1947(essentially between 1902 and 1947). I mean I already can predict a few things, but here is the summary: India will implode very soon as you guys have a very bad habit of thumping your chest on farts.

Summary

Likely hood of Pakistan imploding is 100 times more then India

India is probably the most stable large population country in the world

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It is not called "Implosion" it is called

Civil War


All countries today which have Freedom once had it

• France
• USA
• Japan

Freedom only comes after your Honest Element of Society "Dethrone" the corrupt in war

 

[Meengla]

If IK is eliminated, someone else’s will pick up the mantle and continue the culture of “container protests”. Rumblings in KPK of “they have the watches and we have the time” won’t end well on any metric.
We NEED IK back in office to accomplish our national interests. I will say, let Bilawal be FM, have a coalition government, but push through reforms that undermine the personal wealth of the elites for a time so it can come back ten fold in a generation.

We continue to differ though I admire your good intentions, which is very positive unlike many other PDF Imran admirers.
I think PTI voters need to be accommodated in the new political setup but not Imran Khan himself. I'd glad take Asad Umar to even be the next PM.

Bolded part: It kind of sad you gave the example of the Afghan Taliban. You are unwittingly equating Imran with the Taliban and even with the TTP. But I don't think there is any significant 'rumblings' in the KPK--at least not right now.

 

[FuturePAF]

You are a wise person and a friend of Pakistan. In fact, sane advice is coming from even Indian PDF members.
You gave good examples! From Egypt and from your own homeland. I'd add Erdogan to that list: He took power in 2003 from a corrupt elite which was backed by the Turkish Deep State. Erdogan followed a wise course: Governance, instead of witch-hunting. Imran's PDF followers are disingenuous when they say that Imran didn't have that option in 2018. He absolutely had enough political space to do reforms-- something which @FuturePAF is hinting at in his post above this. But it is not in Imran's personality to 'share' and to allow 'competition'. Imran's downfall is absolutely because of his personality.

Thank you, but grant me this, the divisions in our social fabric will not mend because a man is removed. That tear will linger unless it is properly fixed.

We need the judiciary to set new ground rules, exert its supremacy in matters of corruption. stand up for the constitution in the face of all players and interests.

“They” should allow it, the longer this continues all suffer, even “them”. Their budget needs to increase and they need to retain top talent, and that is costly.

The real owners of Pakistan, the wealthy elite, have to see the country’s population increase by 3-4% this past year but economic growth stood at a standstill. What good is all this wealth when they have to look over their shoulders at the hungry and angry masses. Pakistan can not afford a French Revolution.

We continue to differ though I admire your good intentions, which is very positive unlike many other PDF Imran admirers.
I think PTI voters need to be accommodated in the new political setup but not Imran Khan himself. I'd glad take Asad Umar to even be the next PM.

Bolded part: It kind of sad you gave the example of the Afghan Taliban. You are unwittingly equating Imran with the Taliban and even with the TTP. But I don't think there is any significant 'rumblings' in the KPK--at least not right now.

It’s not that I was drawing an equivalent between IK and the Talibs but amongst some people of KPK, there are those that may lose hope and think that is the only way forward. Hopefully the elite are wise enough to resolve this in an actual democratic way and push through all four key reforms in mentioned above.

It’s not about IK the man, but IK the idea. If that idea can shape the Pakistani self image in a way where one submits their will in a visible manner to the interests of the nation, to laws they can rely upon, then it will be a way to shift the culture. Collective Self imposed discipline starts with IK doing so. Hopefully, for God sake, that also includes better advisor and prior to vet what he says. A second go around will be for all the marbles.

While many called out IK for his u-turns it should indicate that he is flexible and adaptive. One key thing at this stage, those that call him a narcissist should therefore accept, is that he wants to be loved by the people, and will restrain himself if that is what is necessary.

If he can continue to draw rallies, but lauding the merits of obeying the law, he could end his rule as “Imran Al Kanuni”. To be remembered right after the Qaid, we would be the Pakistani equivalent of Lincoln.