War game argues that USAF fleet could be outmatched by Chinese

[bernard]

Black Stone; sir
this isnt have to do anything with modernzing of USAF or with PLAF , but its the genral mentality , of USA & its citizens towards the other nations of the world & it shows same brutalness as what HITTLER got before.

dear batmannow, i think you have listened to lots of mullah umars to reach to such conclusion
the best brutal answer to 9/11 bombing was to nuke afghanistan and parts of pakistan and ahmedinejad completely so that no trace of osama and his disciples remains,and nobody dared to stop US from doing this
i know its not a reality today and it didnt happened but same is your perception about american people is not correct seriously know the truth then post

if USA start playing positive role in the world affairs , this world would be 1000% better place to live in, but the theory of dominence & glory , on the other weeker nations & their resoures is about to become down fall of USA & belive me it wont take 2020? .

please suggest some positive roles for USA, if you could

 

[batmannow]

I am only responding to the thread title and if we are talking about "outmatched" then we must consider the modernization of the PLAAF. If the PLAAF does not modernize, then the word "outmatched" should be removed, hence the USAF will not be outmatched.

I have no idea why you bring in Hitler and foreign policy since the topic is about the USAF and PLAAF.

My comment is only related to Sino-US forces. (PLAAF-USAF)



This is more politics and foreign affairs, I agree that the US foreign policy is a sham. But technology wise, we are superior than the Chinese.

Black Stone; sir
i was on topic, and i was trying to explore the USA intentions to the weeker nations, and expolitation of their resourses , now what if alaska thinks to get out of fedration of 52 states of united states of ammerica!
what if china post its army there?
what if china armed alaska with nukes against USA?
what if US want to get alaska back by power?
inverse every thing , you get to my point.
any way , every militry move is chained with politics , everytime ?
you can check the history!
PLAF mataching USAF in year 2020!
yap, plaf would be behind usaf, but the equation would not be like that, i guss! the chances are PLAF would be flying advanced SU-47 (S-37 Berkut), SU-37 Terminator, which would not be behind as what compare of SU 30 to JSF.
here is some of info for you, incase you dont know.


Su-47 Berkut
From AceWiki
Aircraft Role: Fighter
Manufacturer: Sukhoi
Real-World Origin: Russian Federation
AC Installments: Ace Combat 04: Shattered Skies
Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War
Ace Combat Zero: The Belkan War
Ace Combat X: Skies of Deception
Ace Combat 6: Fires of Liberation
Primary Operator: Yuktobania (YAF)
Secondary Operators: Aurelia (AAF)
Overview

Originally known as the S-37, Sukhoi redesignated its advanced test aircraft as the Su-47 in 2002 reflecting the decision to market the design as a production fighter rather than as an experimental prototype. Also commonly refered to as the Berkut (Golden Eagle). The Su-47 was originally built as Russia's principle testbed for composite materials and sophisticated fly-by-wire control systems. Its first flight took place in 1997.

The aircraft makes use of forward-swept wings allowing superb maneuverability. The advantages of forward sweep have long been known as such wings offer lower wave drag and delayed stall when compared to more traditional wing shapes. Unfortunately, forward sweep also induces significant wing twist that would rip the wings off the aircraft. To solve this problem, the Su-47 makes use of composite materials carefully tailored to resist twisting while still allowing the wing to bend for improved aerodynamic behavior. To reduce development costs, the SU-47 borrowed the forward fuselage, vertical tails, and landing gear of the Su-27 family. Nonetheless, the aircraft includes reduced radar signature features (including radar absorbent materials), an internal weapons bay, and space set aside for an advanced radar. Though similar in overall concept to the American X-29 research aircraft of the 1980s, the Su-47 is about twice the size and far closer to an actual combat aircraft than the US design. The Su-47 is an extremely wise choice for pilots due to its' extreme maneuverability and overall top speed.

ACZ Su-47Weapons

Gun / 1 x 30mm GSh-301 Cannon
Standard Missiles / R-60 (AA-8 'Aphid')
BDSP / [unknown] (ACZ/ACX)
NPB / Mk-77 'Dumb Bomb' (ACX)
QAAM / R-73EM (AC04/AC6)
SAAM / R-27R1 (AC5/ACZ/ACX/AC6)
SFFS / [unknown] (ACZ/ACX)
UGB / [unknown] (AC6)
UGBL / FAB-1000 (AC04)


Ace Squadrons/Pilots
Smirnova / FEAF (AC4)
Nachtigall / BAF (ACZ)
Grabacr / BAF (ACZ)
BAF 5th TFS "Gault" / BAF (ACZ)
Dawn / LAF (ACX)
Kentavr / EAF (AC6)

Stats
Speed: 83
Mobility: 91
Stability: 75
Defense: 66
Air-to-Air: 96
Air-to-Ground: 59




Sources
GlobalSecurity.org
Ace Combat Series

i would like to thanks to you for your kind posting .

 

[batmannow]

dear batmannow, i think you have listened to lots of mullah umars to reach to such conclusion
the best brutal answer to 9/11 bombing was to nuke afghanistan and parts of pakistan and ahmedinejad completely so that no trace of osama and his disciples remains,and nobody dared to stop US from doing this
i know its not a reality today and it didnt happened but same is your perception about american people is not correct seriously know the truth then post

please suggest some positive roles for USA, if you could

bernard; sir
typical crying indian attitude!

 

[MastanKhan]

Malaym,

U S will not be able to land either in korea or japan. It will put those air bases under harms way by surface to surface chinese missile strikes. Secondly---niether would korea and nor would japan want to be entangled in this web---they would not allow the landing of these planes on their soil.

 

[Contrarian]

Mate, Japan is the single biggest US military base in Asia. The FIRST overseas deployement of the F-22 has already been in Japan. I think you are underestimating the Japanese-US relations.

Secondly, Japan is not vulnerable to Chinese SSM's. You underestimate the JSDMF greatly which alone can handle all the problems. And even apart from the JSDMF, there will be USN to protect Japan against SSM's.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

U S will not be able to land either in korea or japan. It will put those air bases under harms way by surface to surface chinese missile strikes.

Mastan sir you over estimate the effectiveness of Ballistic missiles. Mere calculation suggests that Chinese BM salvo cannot effectively destroy Taiwanese Airbases completely , let alone Japan. Ballistic Missiles are afterall not PGM's.Their CEP's are not effective for degrading runways accurately.

Secondly---niether would korea and nor would japan want to be entangled in this web---they would not allow the landing of these planes on their soil.

They already have American troops in their soil , so what's the difference.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

They may have american troops in korea and japan---agreed---and they have bases as well---but the F 22's after a hot intercept mission are not going to land in korea or in japan----aircraft non grata ( persona non grata)----if Rand has not brought up this scenario----then you are nowhere qualified and close to understanding the intricacies of landing the most deadly interceptor aircraft in a third country right after they have decimated the oppositions airplanes-----too hot to handle----keep the distance.

Next, you should have googled the distance between taiwan and japan---quite a bit----distance between taiwan and korea ---quite a lot----after a hot hot combat mission---plane out of ammo---fuel close to bingo----china may have 8 to 12 airbases bases along its coast line----they will have all the approach points covered for japan and korea----please kindly look at the geographical of taiwan---korea---japan in relation to mainland china coastline.

Please name a base in japan or korea---where they could land and also check out the crow flt distance from the northern tip of taiwan to that base just for the sake of profesonalism and let us see if that is feasible-----keeping in mind that mainland china coastline is not too far off.

In the year 2020---japan and korea are not going to be dragged into a war with china by anyone.

Indiapakistanfriendship----how are you doing kiddo---why would china want to use missiles on the taiwanese bases when the F 22 are accordingly landing in " korea or japan ". I am scratching my head----would you bekind enough to read my other post again.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Indiapakistanfriendship----how are you doing kiddo---why would china want to use missiles on the taiwanese bases when the F 22 are accordingly landing in " korea or japan ". I am scratching my head----would you bekind enough to read my other post again.

Sir with all due respect you had indicated that basing F22's in Japan or Korea are not feasable because they may be vulnerable to Chinese SSMs. I was merely countering it by saying that Chinese first need to have the ability to degrade Taiwanese airbases(near to China) using SSMs let alone degrade Airbases and runways in Korea or Japan. They for once sure will not be employing Cruise missiles to hit Japan and BM's are not precision weapons either. So how do you plan to degrade American Bases in Japan using SSM's..But then it was you who brought SSM's into the equation, here are your words.

U S will not be able to land either in korea or japan. It will put those air bases under harms way by surface to surface chinese missile strikes.

PS: Sir the whole Kiddo thing could have been avoided, but then I am guessing you must have called me kiddo in relative terms. ...

 

[MastanKhan]

India pakistan friendship,

First of all my apologies for using the word kiddo.



Secondly, I am not using the term basing the F 22's in japan or korea but rather landing, refueling and take off after a hot hot air combat mission over taiwan---that is basically what was meant by malaym---if I am not wrong.

You are taking advantage of my words and twisting them into a baseless argument---that was the reason for my reaction.

The time frame presented is of year 2020. Even though the americans would be way ahead in technology---the technology gap between the americans and the chinese would reduce considerably----between the present american equipment and the year 2020 chinese equipment.

Once the planes land in korea or japan after flying from taiwan and so close to the chinese border---a mission next to impossible---those bases will face retaliation from the chinese. There will be missile strikes----some of these missile will land in the civilian population----there will be civilian deaths---the koreans and the japanese would come out on the streets against the americans and would want their governments to kick out the american army from their respective bases. It will start with a public disobedience---then afterwards the student unions and other unions will take over and there will be mass riots----police would not be able to control the riots---the millitary will be called in----the riots will get bloodied by the minute---once the law and order situation is maintained and sanity prevails----the u s will be out of korea and japan for good.

The USAFF would have its fleet of F 22's go down in the waters of pacific rather than face the wrath of the japanese and korean public.

But truthfully---the F 22's would not have the legs to get close to japan or korea after the combat.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

India pakistan friendship,

First of all my apologies for using the word kiddo.

No problem sir.

Secondly, I am not using the term basing the F 22's in japan or korea but rather landing, refueling and take off after a hot hot air combat mission over taiwan---that is basically what was meant by malaym---if I am not wrong

Ok , but where do you think the f22's will be based? They did not do a tour of duty at Kadena to market F22 for sure.

You are taking advantage of my words and twisting them into a baseless argument---that was the reason for my reaction

Nope, you said Chinese will degrade Japanese and Korean airbases by SSM's and I simply countered it.Period

he time frame presented is of year 2020. Even though the americans would be way ahead in technology---the technology gap between the americans and the chinese would reduce considerably----between the present american equipment and the year 2020 chinese equipment.

Let us see. Realistically by 2020 Chinese will have a fully working J10 engine with required thrust that requires little less maintainence and is lighter in weight. By 2020 Chinese wil have a fully functional 1st generation AESA radar and DSP chips.

Now let us see what Americans have for now at 2008. Fully functional and advanced engines,fully functioning 3 rd generation AESA and still fine tuning APG77 for F35. Network Jamming technology(I for one so not believe that Israel jammed Syrian air defence networks single handedly). The most advanced electronic warfare systems and practises. A large threat library etc.

So even at 2020 Chinese don't seem to be near to where Americans are right now. 2020 is a mere 11 years away and there is little you can accomplish within that time frame.

Once the planes land in korea or japan after flying from taiwan and so close to the chinese border---a mission next to impossible

Why?

-those bases will face retaliation from the chinese.

How many times the Chinese have practised rocket atillery (Salvo of three BM's)for Ranges such as Japan?

There will be missile strikes----some of these missile will land in the civilian population----there will be civilian deaths---the koreans and the japanese would come out on the streets against the americans and would want their governments to kick out the american army from their respective bases.

What makes you think the otherwise will not happen. Japan for one sure will not chicken out. Their leaders still make it a point to visit Yasukuni. Also Japs and Koreans don't have any particular fondness for Chinese either. Alas such protests have already happened and what makes you think the new ones will make any difference.

It will start with a public disobedience---then afterwards the student unions and other unions will take over and there will be mass riots----police would not be able to control the riots---the millitary will be called in----the riots will get bloodied by the minute---once the law and order situation is maintained and sanity prevails----the u s will be out of korea and japan for good.

Nothing but assumptions whose probabilities are very less. I d say irrational.

The USAFF would have its fleet of F 22's go down in the waters of pacific rather than face the wrath of the japanese and korean public.

How much time will it take the respective governments to change the tide of protests to Anti China one, afterall it was the Chinese who killed their citizens. What makes you think that the governments will be idle. How much time will it take to crack down the protests at the start. Believe me Japs and Koreans are not hippies like Euros. infact they are more Bellicose than us in the subcontinent.

But truthfully---the F 22's would not have the legs to get close to japan or korea after the combat.

Kadena to Taipei is 700 odd Kilometers. F22's have enough range to complete to and fro mission and add to that the IFR capabilities of US. Yes, the F22's have legs and they are as strong and long as greek pillars.

IPF

 

[MastanKhan]

IPF,

If I may write your name short---seems like you didnot read or were not able to comprehend RAND's original article as to where the F 22's were based and flying in from for the air to air combat---if the scenario of landing in japan or korea was feasible after the air combat----Rand would have put it in paper----you know why they didnot----because they are not stupid---even though they may have made many a blunders.

Secondly---please if you may---respond in a professional article form why you think it is possible---please stop this paste and respond one and two liners---if you talk about a response to unrest by the korean / japanese public and students---please print your reasons why they would not----please don't bring your rationale into it---it is a defence related forum----men at war do not do rational things---war itself is irrational---the man who wins the war is always looking for the unpreditable-------because they have held quite a few demonstrations against the american forces many a times---the japanese and korean public want the americans to vacate the bases----that sentiment has been there for a long long time. Why would they not go ballistic, if there are civilian casualties---.

The comments in your last para---read again please and think what you are writing---the discussion is based on RAND's scenario that F 22's based at Anderson base in GUAM---LET ME REPEAT----ANDERSON BASE IN GUAM are participating in the air combat mission----nobody is talking about if the F 22 has the legs to and from from kadena etc.

Did I apologize a little too soon---!!!