Wanted: a strong liberal voice

[Jf Thunder]

u have beard! going by ur DP .. its impossible !

dude, dont judge, there is a story behind the dp too

 

[Dubious]

We dont have the luxury to cry for everyone, it is our deep slumber that has brought the wrath of God upon us. IF this turned me into an insensitive megalomaniac then so be it.

Pakistan is not going to wake up, and I believe it is for the best this country suffers from a humiliation so bad that it has no other option. But this dheet qaum is well, beghairat pretty much. No turning back.

1stly its not a luxury to cry for someone....
2ndly it is not about crying for someone even
3rdly, you are far from that land and in safety so maybe you cant feel like me as I am attached to the land based on my passport being green, my forefathers having fought for it hence emotional attachment plus the fact that 80% of my direct family is still there makes it more of my business to ensure they are in a safe environment! So maybe that is why I think differently...

Even though I was raised outside this land, I only have 2 things-

One is a bunch of questions for the people living on that land...

questions which hopefully will make that sleeping brain wake up
questions which hopefully will make them think
questions which hopefully will activate any form of positiveness

And another thing I have is hope...

I am not on this forum to spit out my venom ....we already have many members doing that + that will do no one good
I am not on this forum to show off what a sad case my country is in .....we already have many members doing that + that will do no one good
I am not on this forum to ignore the problems .....we already have many members doing that + that will do no one good
I am not on this forum to continue shitting about hopelessness .....we already have many members doing that + that will do no one good

Hence I am trying a different approach...asking questions and filling it with hope....
Because if we dont start questioning how will we know where the mistakes were made
if we dont ask questions how will we know there is a second opinion?
If we dont ask questions how will we generate the thinking process?


And so on....so please keep your venom to yourself in the foreign land you already are....Pakistan doesnt need anymore venom!

Thats absolutely right, a good rule if thumb is to stay away from anyone trying to come off as God fearing, I have personally learnt to despise a man with a beard or a woman with a tasbih in public because they have proven to be the biggest hypocrites I have seen.....

Never paint every person with the same brush and paint....Keep in mind what you have learnt but never pass judgement before knowing something...a story comes to my mind:

A man is pacing up and down the hospital waiting for the surgeon to come in...his son was in an accident and requires a surgery they hospital said that the surgeon was called and is on his way. As soon as the surgeon comes in...the man burst out his anger screaming at the surgeon "You doctors are all the same...ask for a hefty fee but are not on time and think of yourselves as a big hot shot ...my son is in a dying condition and you are taking your time!!!"
The surgeon looks at the dad says "I am here now let me do my work" and enters the operating theater...and after a couple of hours of a successful operation rushes out without meeting the father.
Again the father bursts out in anger..."what does he think of himself...just because he is rich and famous he can just walk off like some proud ***..."
A nurse heard this and came over saying "That surgeon was on his way to the funeral ceremony of his only son across town when he got the call to operate your son. He left the ceremony, leaving his crying wife and guests to come and operate on yours and now he is going back to continue the ceremony."

Moral: Never judge people..You dont know what they are going through or facing!
Not every person is the same...There are a few who might be exceptions so dont let your anger and ignorance make you judge them like the rest. If you do so you will be the one who is at wrong!

 

[Durrak]

And Now Madrassah bred morons will tell us what is Islam ..... !!!

Islam teaches to respect others opinion as well. Maybe sometimes you forget that.. Madarsah is a word used for any educational institute. Your perception of an institute is somehow acceptable but marked them as one is inappropriate.

 

[Durrak]

Pakistan doesn't need liberal voice neither it needs a hypocrite religious scholar but a leader who cares to think about his people,who is wise enough to implement all the possible tactics to deal with the current situation without fear.

 

[Khan_patriot]

Never paint every person with the same brush and paint....Keep in mind what you have learnt but never pass judgement before knowing something...a story comes to my mind:
A man is pacing up and down the hospital waiting for the surgeon to come in...his son was in an accident and requires a surgery they hospital said that the surgeon was called and is on his way. As soon as the surgeon comes in...the man burst out his anger screaming at the surgeon "You doctors are all the same...ask for a hefty fee but are not on time and think of yourselves as a big hot shot ...my son is in a dying condition and you are taking your time!!!"
The surgeon looks at the dad says "I am here now let me do my work" and enters the operating theater...and after a couple of hours of a successful operation rushes out without meeting the father.
Again the father bursts out in anger..."what does he think of himself...just because he is rich and famous he can just walk off like some proud ***..."
A nurse heard this and came over saying "That surgeon was on his way to the funeral ceremony of his only son across town when he got the call to operate your son. He left the ceremony, leaving his crying wife and guests to come and operate on yours and now he is going back to continue the ceremony."
Moral: Never judge people..You dont know what they are going through or facing!
Not every person is the same...There are a few who might be exceptions so dont let your anger and ignorance make you judge them like the rest. If you do so you will be the one who is at wrong!

I get what you are trying to convey, ofcourse not all people are the same, if I believe it that makes me no better than any narrow minded Mullah, I do acknowledge that there are some great men with beards etc and that it is a Sunnah but unfortunately most of the time the people who try to come off as ''Islamic minded'' are the ones who are the most immoral and hypocritical, in my social circle the people who have beards/wear burkas etc and go on tablig etc are the most immoral whereas the regular ones are some of the best human beings I know.....

 

[Dubious]

I get what you are trying to convey, ofcourse not all people are the same, if I believe it that makes me no better than any narrow minded Mullah, I do acknowledge that there are some great men with beards etc and that it is a Sunnah but unfortunately most of the time the people who try to come off as ''Islamic minded'' are the ones who are the most immoral and hypocritical, in my social circle the people who have beards/wear burkas etc and go on tablig etc are the most immoral whereas the regular ones are some of the best human beings I know.....

I agree with you...But I say its not my problem if one has a beard or not...it is however my problem if I accidentally judge a good guy with a beard based on my bad experience....Hence whatever one does...its his/ her business ...In the Quran Allah tells us repeated to ponder ...to use our brain and hence before judging based on prior experience one should watch the actions of one, learn what is good and what is bad, fix themselves and then he or she may think to himself or herself what the other maybe ....but even then we have no rights to say our thoughts out loud we may be 100% wrong ....In fact ALLAH said even if we do 1 grain of sand more bad we are automatically the bad one...Always keeping this in mind I keep my judgement until someone pushes me overboard even then I only yell back you appear to be so and so...I try to avoid saying you are!

Pakistan doesn't need liberal voice neither it needs a hypocrite religious scholar but a leader who cares to think about his people,who is wise enough to implement all the possible tactics to deal with the current situation without fear.

Aysa banda duniyea mein nai hai Pakistan mein uska ana tou door ki baat hai...what we need is a strong person telling everyone to mind their own business and ensuring the country is doing the same! So basically everyone from individual to National level needs to mind their own business!

And Now Madrassah bred morons will tell us what is Islam ..... !!!

How different is what you said to that of what you are against?

You just called some name and they give you a similar name kafir...Now will the name calling stop or do you want to show unsay bara jahil tum ho?! I mean seriously where is the distinguishing line between you and them?!

 

[EasyNow]

5.They come out of religion as arrow comes out[ex-they reject these capital punishments, for-adultery=100 lashes & stoning,fornication=100 lashes & exile
for one year,Murder=death[but they dont have problem if its compensation],Rape=death,cutting of hand from wrist for stealing,etc.]

This is why people have stopped trusting Madrassah types, who twist hadees for whatever suits them.

Above you stretch the words, as if they mean kharjis don't believe in Islamic punishment. But you forgot that this contradicts your own story from earlier...

once two kharjis were going through some ones date garden one of them took a date and eat it other person reminded him that its stealing so the Kharji who ate it instead of looking for owner and ask to forgive him for eating date without permission directly cut of his hand right their

So they don't believe in Shariah punishment but the kharji cut off his own hand for stealing? Do you realise how confused and blinded you are?!

If I am wrong in my assumption that the Liberal class in Pakistan has elements that have been as bad as Mullahs.. then Ill come to that conclusion somehow and move on. I am not one to stick to an opinion out of pride.

I sincerely hope you do meet some Muslim liberals who will change your mind. The ones you mentioned earlier, i suspect, are just expressing their frustration - when people use and abuse religion all the time, can you blame others for reacting and becoming disillusioned with it all. Your secular friends may say vile things from frustration, but you know they don't have a track record of acting on those thoughts. Our mullahs say all the right things but their actions are some of the most inhuman.

 

[Khan_patriot]

Following are their Traits.


1.Young in age

2.Foolish minds

3 Speak with best speech

4.Emaan does'nt pass through throats.

5.They come out of religion as arrow comes out[ex-they reject these capital punishments, for-adultery=100 lashes & stoning,fornication=100 lashes & exile

for one year,Murder=death[but they dont have problem if its compensation],Rape=death,cutting of hand from wrist for stealing,etc.]

6.Weakenees in understanding.[ex-they reject sunnah,by claiming that they follow only Quran]

7.Excessive in performing acts of worship,and u'll look down upon you'r worship.

8.Worst of creatures.

9.They permit oppression against the prophet.[ex:he was astray]

10.Kill muslims and leave kuffar.

11.Deeply absorb in religion and leave it.

12.They disparage their rulers & claim them misguided.

13.They call people to Quran but have nothing to do with it.

14.They do not believe people with knowledge[scholars/mullahs] hold postition,like they rejected the knowledge of Ali r.a

15.They go to extremes in worship

16.They take Quranic verses which were revealed concerning kuffar and apply them to muslims.

17.Fight with best people.

18.Their sect leader accused prophet so this was revealed.9:58 And among them are men who slander thee in the matter of (the distribution of) the alms. If they are given part thereof they are pleased but if not behold! they are indignant!

19.Their prayer does not pass through their throats.

20.There is reward in killing them[under law]

21.They shed unlawful blood.

22.They will speak the truth with their tonuges,but it will not go through their throat.[ex-they say they learned salat method from station of Ibrahim

alai salaam and not from hadith][also zakat,hajj are from learned by ancestors and not from hadith where as hadith is the source of verification.]

23.They are the first ones to split

24.They beautify their speech but produce vile actions.

25.Every time a new generation springs up ,they cut off from jamah.

26.Dajjal will emit from amist them.

27.They are those in whose hearts is deviation.

28.They declare muslims to be disbelievers due to every sin.

29.They say Muslims who comit major sins will go to hell forever.

30.Its obligatory duty to rebel if a rules oppress sunnah[priority should be given for reformation & not rebellian]

31.They are worst in deriving rules from analogy.[ex:they reject

32.If a leader comits disbelief,they think all his people are kuffar.whether present or absent.

33.Whoever disagrees with their views r kuffar for them,they think killing them is lawful ,be it women and children.

34.Among them is he who disparages the companions and rejects their statements.

35.Fight alone with ruler whom they disagree with,fight with the one who supports him.dont fight with one who dont support them.

36.Every sin done by a person makes him disbeliever,since he is ignorant of Allah

37.They will be with dajjal.

38.They do not respect sancity of places or times.

39.They do not hold an oppresive ruler has a right to rule.[priority should

be given for reformation & not rebellian]

40.They cling to the apparant meaning of Quranic texts.They understanmd that which the text do not

indicate.They say prophet comited major and minor sins.

41.They reject sunnah if there is not some explicit text in Quran in the Quran that supports it.they do not take anything form sunnah except for that

which can be interpreted in general sense,not including those texts that contradict which is apparently stated in the Quran acording

to them. so They do not believe in stoning the adulteror.nor do they believe there is minimum [stolen] amount,which constitutes stealing.[They reject punishmnet

in grave]

42.They lie in wait on roads for the purpose of attacking passers by and spilling their blood without any justification from Allah subhanawatala.

43.Not one from among the companions of messenger of Allah could be found amongst them[supporting them]

44.There are many among them that differ with one another.they are divided into many sects.

45.They are dogs of inhabitants of hell.

46.They outwardly manifest the attributes of calling to good and forbidding evil.redirecting the religious concerning that towards disputing with rulers

,rebelling against them and fighting with those who oppose them.

47.They speak using the speech and the words of the people of knowledge.Tirelessly fight against muslims.

48.They kill themselves in sucide operations basing that on false arguments.

49.They use as evidence verses form Quran that deal with wa'eed[Allah's threat of punishment] while abandoning the verses concerning the

wa'ad[Allah's promise for forgiveness]

50.They are hastly in applying rulings.

51.They make rulings and accusations against the hearts . This includes rulings on one's decisions and notions.

52.They have doubts concerning well established historical events.

53.They call to illiteracy and make war against education,claiming that it is not possible to combine between the religious sciences and the practical secular sciences.

54.They call to splitting away from the muslim community.so they boycott the schools ,institutions,universities,government positions and residing with muslims.

55.They believe that a person who holds that the concesus[ijmaa] of the scholars is proof is a disbeliever.[shirk etc]

56.They oppose those scholars taht make blind following permissible for the common person and the beginner student ,claiming that bling following

[taqleed] is a cause for disbelief and the destruction of the nation of Islaam.

57 Bad manners towards scholars,defaming them,belittling them,kindling the with hatred for them,and having the audaicity to disparage and criticize

them. many of them resort to using caution and carefulness in secretiveness,since their beliefs and ideologies conflict with what the people of knowledge and

the rest of the muslims are upon.

58 shave their heads[tasbeet-removing the short hairs]

Is it just me or does the TTP fit the bill perfectly.....

I agree with you...But I say its not my problem if one has a beard or not...it is however my problem if I accidentally judge a good guy with a beard based on my bad experience....Hence whatever one does...its his/ her business ...In the Quran Allah tells us repeated to ponder ...to use our brain and hence before judging based on prior experience one should watch the actions of one, learn what is good and what is bad, fix themselves and then he or she may think to himself or herself what the other maybe ....but even then we have no rights to say our thoughts out loud we may be 100% wrong ....In fact ALLAH said even if we do 1 grain of sand more bad we are automatically the bad one...Always keeping this in mind I keep my judgement until someone pushes me overboard even then I only yell back you appear to be so and so...I try to avoid saying you are!

Again I cant help but agree with you.....
PS: You dont have a beard or something do you.....

 

[Pakistani E]

Pakistanis don't know what a liberal is. They have the likes of Zaid Hamid and orya maqbool jan giving them definitions. First and foremost Pakistanis need proper education so they can rightly identify this mythical Liberal creature that supposedly lurks in Pakistan.

 

[Dubious]

Again I cant help but agree with you.....
PS: You dont have a beard or something do you.....

Now that would be scary not that I havent seen a lady with a beard in some cartoons....but still scary

 

[T-123456]

Pakistanis don't know what a liberal is. They have the likes of Zaid Hamid and orya maqbool jan giving them definitions. First and foremost Pakistanis need proper education so they can rightly identify this mythical Liberal creature that supposedly lurks in Pakistan.

 

[Khan_patriot]

Now that would be scary not that I havent seen a lady with a beard in some cartoons....but still scary

Who knows maybe you really have one and it looks like this.....

 

[SQ8]

I sincerely hope you do meet some Muslim liberals who will change your mind. The ones you mentioned earlier, i suspect, are just expressing their frustration - when people use and abuse religion all the time, can you blame others for reacting and becoming disillusioned with it all. Your secular friends may say vile things from frustration, but you know they don't have a track record of acting on those thoughts. Our mullahs say all the right things but their actions are some of the most inhuman.

The issue is not with the mindset of liberal or secular. These are ideals that are adopted and essentially ethos to live by. The issue is with the class of people who identify themselves with these ideals and yet do not live up to them and the atheists or otherwise within them cause damage to the interests of the nation. To say, be more western than the west itself is their cause... to the extent that they are ready to sell out, much as the Mullahs are.. the nations interests for bits of gold.

 

[Dubious]

Who knows maybe you really have one and it looks like this.....

scary!

 

[SQ8]

Pakistanis don't know what a liberal is. They have the likes of Zaid Hamid and orya maqbool jan giving them definitions. First and foremost Pakistanis need proper education so they can rightly identify this mythical Liberal creature that supposedly lurks in Pakistan.

That being said, Pakistanis and even Pakistani "liberals" have difficulty identifying what liberalism means. They seem to equate it with dress codes and accented English language. Abusing the ideals of liberal thought to disturb society and pass themselves off under the guise of "enlightened" to sell out the nation.