Vision 2025, population bomb, mega cities and transport infrastructure

[danger007]

we also had a vision,,,,,it was called "vision 2020"

are you from Andhra? btw my dad is fine bro... He don't have cancer... Surgery is done for BPH. .

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

If every child brings his Rizq with him then no child must go hungry? Right. How then, does one explain children dying of malnutrition and starvation? Allah's displeasure? With whom? The 3 year old child? Comments?

@Secur @Akheilos @Fracker

 

[halupridol]

are you from Andhra? btw my dad is fine bro... He don't have cancer... Surrey is done for BPH. .

i told you,,,itna tension mat le,,,,hope u went to another surgeon....
no i am not grom Andhra,,,,me from Assam

BTW which surgery?
TURP??

 

[danger007]

i told you,,,itna tension mat le,,,,hope u went to another surgeon....
no i am not grom Andhra,,,,me from Assam

BTW which surgery?
TURP??

i don't know what type bro... but micro surgery ...

 

[Viper0011.]

If I were to give vision 2030, it would be Energy resources, population and education/health.

And how would you reduce the energy consumption, gas emissions, move your population around to schools, health facilities and to jobs easily? You comment is so freaking dumb I am sorry to even respond to it. Without ROADS you CAN'T get from point A to B. You probably drive your car with an AC in it, how about 180 million people that don't even have clean water to drink.....let alone enjoying energy and good education as they may not have proper means to travel. Mass transit takes care of that. It ENABLES a poor kid from a village to get to a COLLEGE so he or she can get a better job, pay taxes and then that money can get circulated back in the economy, creating more jobs, more energy and more Roads and Public Transportation so others can get to schools just like this one kid I used as an example.
The Chinese got to this level of economic growth because of what? The ONLY mega projects that had till the 90's were infrastructure. New York, Chicago and all are HUGE financial and business districts where MILLIONS of people get to work and school through supportive infrastructure. So goods and services can move quickly. India, Brazil and all are putting hundreds of billions of dollars into infrastructure so the economy can move.
If you can show me ONE economic plan that can grow economy without focusing on Infrastructure, I'd like to be surprised. Your "energy", "jobs" and "healthcare" ALL require infrastructure.

NS should concentrate on following main points

1) Fastest Access to China for Gawadar, the faster they come, faster Pakistan will develop. Motorways, Railway, Petrol Pipeline, and Improving Security.
2) Build More industry, High Teach Cities, IT Hubs, more industry, more Jobs, more Jobs means more education, More education Means more Competitions in the university, saturation in Education Sector, and finally higher literacy rate.
3) Tax on Agriculture, especially on the people having more then 4 acre of Land.
4) Technology revolution, not bring the technology stuff, but build one inside the country, robotics, 3d Printing, AI are the next generation needs. When AI will arrive, the gaps between technological civilization will grow even higher. So, this is the main sector where Pakistan & Pakistanis should work.
5) last not the least, getting independent on fuel, like petrol, Natural Gas, Coal and develop more of Nuclear, Solar, Wind and other sources. The world we see today will change in no time at all.. Soon Germany will become the first country to get independent from Fossil fuel. And the countries dependent upon fossil fuel are bound to fall in future.

All 5 are a part of the future Vision strategy. I know it as I was in Pakistan last year and discussed this with a huge infrastructure company that's working on Motorways, Metrobus, etc, etc

Such "vision" plans will see as well as a blind man with cataracts.

What is needed is emergency planning to set a foundation upon which such long term planning can work. Otherwise these are meaningless, just like many before.

So what do you think the Vision entails? A "white paper" on "how to grow the economy"? Common man, you know better than that. For the first time, these guys are coming up with future planning, 70+ years after their country was founded. Late but a HUGE step in the right direction, which will set up a base that no matter who is in the power, will have to do things to stay in power. Or people will throw them out (dependency upon if the system remains democratic).

 

[Dubious]

If every child brings his Rizq with him then no child must go hungry? Right. How then, does one explain children dying of malnutrition and starvation? Allah's displeasure? With whom? The 3 year old child? Comments?

@Secur @Akheilos @Fracker

A very good question...

Like I said think of rizq as a research proposal which can change based on variables and results...

And in that proposal there are variables...us who can afford to give zakat...If everyone gives zakat and follows rules than such kids would not die...even animals get their rizq!

Do you know during few Khalif stages when law and order and there was not a single person to give zakat too...no one dying...

Now if you dont follow the law and then complain that ALLAH is unjust...I think that is not right...If the world was running on the law and then there was prob with rizq then we could complain not when we do the balancing!

 

[Fracker]

All 5 are a part of the future Vision strategy. I know it as I was in Pakistan last year and discussed this with a huge infrastructure company that's working on Motorways, Metrobus, etc, etc

Only first one I have seen, and for that as well I want it to be fast track. For others not much initiatives has been taken. No Industry cities, IT Hubs, Technological cities, are in plan so far. Nothing related to Future Technologies been practices, or encouraged. Fossil fuel removal is also not in the list, infact more an more coal is right now the center of 60% of the power generations.

For motorways, Rail link to kashghar should be fast track, to make it happen very very quickly (I say SS Style), if that happens Pakistan security will improve miles ahead.

If every child brings his Rizq with him then no child must go hungry? Right. How then, does one explain children dying of malnutrition and starvation? Allah's displeasure? With whom? The 3 year old child? Comments?

@Secur @Akheilos @Fracker

What happen if your rizk is finished? Obviously you die right? So when your rizk is complete, then scenarios can come up, where you are unable to get more food, so you die. btw I don't believe anyone can die via starving. There are other factors which works towards this.

 

[Hyde]

So how will the poor people be able to pay this tax? Will the State take away the children so conceived for non-payment?

Nops,

But just like any law, charges will be laid upon those who does not pay the taxes with the maximum sentence of 3 months or so. The idea is to curtail the growing population be it by any civilised means. I am calling for loose set of rules which can be ignored at times but strong discouragement for those who are not financially stable to have more than few children.

By such rules 80% of the population will either pay taxes or avoid making babies. Those who can afford will simply don't care and have more babies but they will also be contributing towards the country's economy. The rule can be further extended by reclaiming this income if you have filed tax returns and your contribution of taxes is higher than specified amount such as 100k.

I know my idea will not make sense for a country like Pakistan where controlling population is considered like a taboo. We have to be very careful over this matter but I am just presenting a solution for those who can absorb

 

[VCheng]

I know my idea will not make sense for a country like Pakistan where controlling population is considered like a taboo. We have to be very careful over this matter but I am just presenting a solution for those who can absorb

That says it all. Controlling population is a religious taboo in Pakistan, and therefore none of what you propose will ever come to pass.

For the first time, these guys are coming up with future planning, 70+ years after their country was founded.

Nope. Pakistan developed the Five Year Plan development model way back in the fifties (inspired by USSR), one that the South Koreans came to study. Now look at them compared to Pakistan. These plans are not worth the ink spent on printing them.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

A very good question...

Like I said think of rizq as a research proposal which can change based on variables and results...

And in that proposal there are variables...us who can afford to give zakat...If everyone gives zakat and follows rules than such kids would not die...even animals get their rizq!

Do you know during few Khalif stages when law and order and there was not a single person to give zakat too...no one dying...

Now if you dont follow the law and then complain that ALLAH is unjust...I think that is not right...If the world was running on the law and then there was prob with rizq then we could complain not when we do the balancing!

Apropos to the part on takseem. The world produces enough food to feed everyone. World agriculture produces 17 percent more calories per person today than it did 30 years ago, despite a 70 percent population increase. This is enough to provide everyone in the world with at least 2,720 kilocalories (kcal) per person per day. But because so many children go hungry and die it is, I suppose, fair to assume then, that in these Godless times having as many kids as possible is not a bright idea because the takseem of Rizq is disproportional owing, of course, to our own shortcomings. Therefore before reproducing one must consider the teachings of faith objectively, rationally and in light of one's own economical, financial and geographical conditions.

What happen if your rizk is finished? Obviously you die right? So when your rizk is complete, then scenarios can come up, where you are unable to get more food, so you die. btw I don't believe anyone can die via starving. There are other factors which works towards this.

But then doesn't that defeat the purpose of having as many kids as possible? Poor people bank on kids to bring their own Rizq with them and with it barkah for the family. But if kids are to be born with such limited Rizq that they don't live past infancy, the parents's efforts appear to have been ill-served.

Poor nutrition causes nearly half (45%) of deaths in children under five - 3.1 million children each year.

Children are the most visible victims of undernutrition. Children who are poorly nourished suffer up to 160 days of illness each year. Poor nutrition plays a role in at least half of the 10.9 million child deaths each year--five million deaths.

Geographically, more than 70 percent of malnourished children live in Asia, 26 percent in Africa and 4 percent in Latin America and the Caribbean. In many cases, their plight began even before birth with a malnourished mother. Under-nutrition among pregnant women in developing countries leads to 1 out of 6 infants born with low birth weight. This is not only a risk factor for neonatal deaths, but also causes learning disabilities, mental, retardation, poor health, blindness and premature death.

While we celebrate Eid today and indulge in the bounties which Allah has blessed us with, an estimated 13,000 children will go hungry and die today. 13,000 more will die tomorrow and by the end of our 3-day celebrations, 36,000 children would lie in stark contrast to the idea that every child brings Rizq for himself and Barkah for the family with him/her.

By the end of August 390,000 children would have left us because they went hungry and died.

BTW: Eid Mubarak to all. May Allah bless us all. Ameen.

 

[Viper0011.]

Nope. Pakistan developed the Five Year Plan development model way back in the fifties (inspired by USSR), one that the South Koreans came to study. Now look at them compared to Pakistan. These plans are not worth the ink spent on printing them.

Actually your post is very contradictory to the fact. On one hand you are saying these progression plans don't work. On the other end, you are saying in the same sentence that look at Korea and where they went with these plans......??? Mind you Koreans and Saudi's got their progress-plans from Pakistani economists in the 60's.
So the plans work, but there isn't consistency in the system to allow the people to serve the term that then ensures their plans and policies work. That way, if the results don't show, you can hold them accountable and vote their sorry ****es out.

You start school for 4 years and you have a plan to get a Bachelor's degree or a Master's Degree. If you don't know what degree you want, but you started the school....chances are you will either get a degree that you didn't need or if you quit early, all that time and effort you put in, is wasted as you quit before your 4 years which allowed you a degree (granted you studied for it).

These plans are an extremely essential part of economic growth. If you don't set goals, you can't meet them. These plans are allowing you to see your long term needs followed by focused and priority growth areas, resulting in economic and financial growth within the country.

 

[Viper0011.]

Only first one I have seen, and for that as well I want it to be fast track. For others not much initiatives has been taken. No Industry cities, IT Hubs, Technological cities, are in plan so far. Nothing related to Future Technologies been practices, or encouraged. Fossil fuel removal is also not in the list, infact more an more coal is right now the center of 60% of the power generations.

For motorways, Rail link to kashghar should be fast track, to make it happen very very quickly (I say SS Style), if that happens Pakistan security will improve miles ahead.

What happen if your rizk is finished? Obviously you die right? So when your rizk is complete, then scenarios can come up, where you are unable to get more food, so you die. btw I don't believe anyone can die via starving. There are other factors which works towards this.

You are either very misinformed, don't follow up with your own country's progress on project's or are simply here for a political agenda. You also have to realize, in all these advance things, you have Punjab and Sindh involved. The rest of your province don't want to do things like these. But allow me to elaborate on the 5 things from your post:

1) Fastest Access to China for Gawadar: This is what the current gov't has sold to China as a strategic partnership. Thus the 50 billion investment and the "Silk Corridor" they are building. Both Pakistan and China are involved. Its a thousands of miles long highway system, not sure how much you know about infrastructure but it's not a 12 month project. It is however being expedited.

2) Build More industry, High Teach Cities, IT Hubs, more industry, more Jobs: There is a LOT of focus on it. Specially in Punjab. Your CM in Pubjab ha already gotten agreements from the Chinese, Turkey, Arabs and Koreans to use the IT hubs they are building across Punjab. The Metro Bus & Train projects play a KEY role here as they will connect different areas to these job hubs, directly and indirectly. That way, people can get to work, more educated labor can travel with less money and be able to be productive, pay taxes, manage their households and then the tax money gets cycled back into the economy

3) Tax on Agriculture, especially on the people having more then 4 acre of Land: 4 Acres is a LOT of land. In the US, there is Tax on every foot of land. Sure you can get some exemptions if you are doing farming, agriculture, etc. But EVERYBODY must pay their share of taxes. You could say that a small family under an income bracket (set an income like below 20000 per month) is allowed to have a medium sized home without tax, but they pay taxes when they buy a newer home or sell existing one at a profit. Everything else should have taxes on it. The current government is taking numerous steps to ensure that. The land computerized system is one example.

4) Technology revolution, not bring the technology stuff, but build one inside the country, robotics, 3d Printing, AI: Once the IT hubs start to work and work and projects start to come in, just like Medicine, you'll have your labor / IT people develop certain skill sets as the global businesses they'll be working with are very diverse with regards to technology. So once you get long term projects, the IT hubs will start to venture out and build other expertise. You'll see the AI, Robotics, etc but in due time it'll take to mature up

5) Last not the least, getting independent on fuel, like petrol, Natural Gas, Coal and develop more of Nuclear, Solar, Wind and other sources: The current government's first goal is to make enough electricity to produce needed energy. Between the Chinese corridor and the GSP plus, this is a golden opportunity for Pakistan. Power outages don't help the GSP plus deal as your industry can't produce and sustain production, that is needed to jump start the larger textile and clothing related industry. Once that's fixed through coal, hydro, solar (quick fixes if you will), only THEN you can venture out to clean and alternative energies. A hungry person needs food, once you start to have enough food supply, you can try to get fancy with what you'd like to eat tomorrow.

Last but not least, Rome wasn't built in a day. For anyone to ignore the progress being made in a short amount of time, and question the system with a wish list that even the person creating it can't properly explain, isn't good. If you stick to a system and let people finish their growth plans, you'll be very successful soon. Otherwise a system which gets derailed keeps destroying the time, effort, money and the growth plan itself as the next forced gov't won't want it.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

There are genuine beggars, though I know the curse of begging where even well-off people are found engaging in it. Thats not the point however, anybody would beg if he cant work and if he doesn't have food in his stomach, multiply it by ten if your family's starving too, this is human nature. The instinct of self preservation will be at work, sure. The point is having more children with existing scarce resources makes you prone to that outcome, an extremely high risk group so to speak.

The perception you speak of, is one thats true for tribal mentality, unfortunately despite all the religious backing and a few success stories here and there, it doesn't seem to be working. More children do not exactly equal prosperity today, by any means. If something, they are all about adding further burden on the society with their need for more resources, one that is conveniently absent from their parents relying on God to do the raising. The startup capital and the base has dramatically shifted upwards today, a person needs education before he can earn what the tribals were earning without it, the requirements have changed in this era. Kids need to be provided with education before they can earn and if that sort of money isn't there with you, I think we all know the logical end. Those children who should be studying at school are found to be working under pathetic conditions for a meagre amount of money, just to keep their families afloat. I see it everyday passing through shanties, its heart breaking. That Rizq that you people speak of, is ironically absent where its needed most or maybe the apparent interpretation is wrong itself.

P.S Not talking about people who have the resources and money to feed/raise a large family.



I get it, but then the Rizq doesn't appear to be a fixed amount, true?

Oh Allah kay banday, why you are targeting pashtuns, like you always do?
Consult community medicine departments, they will correct you that increased growth rate is inversely related to education and directly related to poverty. Poor people in punjab ,balochistan and sindh also have big families. Kindly dont generalize about pashtuns, have some control over your karachite sentiments/racism

 

[Secur]

Poor people in punjab ,balochistan and sindh also have big families. Kindly dont generalize about pashtuns, have some control over your karachite sentiments/racism

Speaking in general if you understand it, there's difference between tribes and tribal mentality, I understand why people considered a large family as the way for prosperity back then and how they have continued the same, even today. There's no specific targeting and therefore no generalization, please come out of this insecurity.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Speaking in general if you understand it, there's difference between tribes and tribal mentality, I understand why people considered a large family as the way for prosperity back then and how they have continued the same, even today. There's no specific targeting and therefore no generalization, please come out of this insecurity.

Oh bhai, it has nothing to do with "tribal mentality", like i said poverty and education are factors among many in growth rate. I know you since long so i am very well aware what do you mean by tribals and tribal mentality . Let me advise you again,"stop generalizing" and Stop hating Pashtun because of Kararchi politics.