Violation of Kashmir autonomy: Repercussions for Pakistan for not taking action against India

[Meengla]

There could also be something else going on here. India maybe laying the ground work to partition Indian occupied Kashmir into three parts. India wants to make Ladakh and Jammu; "union" territories; provinces in a sense, but i'm not sure what they are doing with Kashmir/Kashmir Valley.

When the time for a vote comes and the Kashmir Valley votes overwhelmingly to separate from India (either to join Pakistan or Full Independence), it will not hold the vote in Ladakh nor in Jammu, or at least they can divide the vote, and claim Jammu and Ladkh as a unit want to stay with India.

This maybe a new Partition going on, and a face saving move by Modi.

Pakistani Leadership should consider this as a possible interpretation of this move. Similar to how Gilgit-Baltistan are separated from Azad Kashmir administratively.

Thought provoking. Thank you.

 

[shah_123]

Certain quarters of Pakistani posters mostly the khota khors who just need anything to bash PTI government is talking nonsense. They want a nuclear war while living comfortably in Germany and elsewhere. Such khota khors dont deserve a response. For the other segment who is genuinely concern, Indians can change status all they want, their parliament, they can do whatever they want, for the rest of the world this changes what exactly? For Pakistan, as soon as the Indian RSS shinigamis are sent in Kashmir, we need to start hitting them hard no matter how. Non state, state whatever. US needs to be told categorically, they want our support in Afghanistan, than turn away to how we deal with India. There is no need to deal with it wearing kid gloves. Fascist regime of Modi needs to be dealt with an Iron hand than goes in from behind and get out from his face.

Non state are out of business because intl community asked us and we complied ( now ask the same intl.community to stop India)
Regarding state, people running the affairs of our State are cowards, they don't have the balls to hit hard RSS shinigamis.

 

[1Paki$tani]

What will happen after the split. Will the Muslim majority parts of Kashmir be allowed to hold a plebiscite?

If Azad Kashmir and the Kashmir Valley vote for independence, but India keeps Ladakh and Jammu while Pakistan keeps Gilgit-Baltistan, it would save face for both nations, while ending the Kashmir dispute on somewhat neutral terms. Indians and Pakistanis could still travel to Kashmir (per the will of the Kashmiri people) and Kashmiris could do business with Both India and Pakistan without alienating either nation, similar to Nepal. All but the far right wing of both nations would accept this,as the people of Kashmir just want peace, and to live a normal life.

Imran Khan's speech at the institute of peace lays out this shift in who gets to decide, to just what do the Kashmiris want, as a standard for a just peace settlement. But real-politik states both nations need to guard the most crucial aspects of their national interests. Hence this division of Indian occupied Kashmir.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1158330753958236160

Check the map. Say Pakistan gets green india keeps yellow and blue provided china doesnt control yellow.

 

[Nasr]

We should go to war.

War is for those who either have unchallenged power (America) or for those who are incapable of using their brain to resolve issues. Pakistan fits neither category and has no reason to start a war. India is run by a bunch of inbred swines, let them dig their own graves and Indians will bury them in it.

We gave thousands of lives for a cause which is in danger.

You have failed to look at the big picture. The Kashmir isn't in danger, India is, as it's leadership is trying to cover it's pathetic mistakes, a slowing economy and a gradually degrading international relations standing. Let Modi's ratings nose dive and sensible Indians (yes they exist) demolish Modi's government with No Confidence Vote.

Make it costly for india.

As the current trend is permitted to carry on, Modi and his yuppies have already made things way too costly for India. Even India's allies are like; "WTF is wrong with this country?!!" Modi's actions are to appease his fascist followers, regular Indians will not allow this to go on for long. If their economy was good, then regular Indians would've not done anything. That isn't the case however.

They would soon scrap Indus water treaty if we stay silent.

What Indus Treaty? India has been building dams in Kashmir for quite sometime. Floods in Pakistan in the last 20 years have been as a direct cause of it. Scrapping the Indus Water Treaty wouldn't really achieve much against a country which has faced severe sanctions, flooded many times and has had successive corrupt governments in power. Despite that, Pakistan still stands and will continue to do so "IF" they work toward unity under the banner of Islam.

Understand one thing, Pakistan has CPEC, Afghan Peace, Eradication of Corruption in Bureaucracy, 1 Billion Trees Project and Educational Reforms to focus on. Modi can jump around like a butt-naked monkey all day long, it isn't going to stop the inevitable, which is India's failing government.

 

[notorious_eagle]

India has played her card now what ?

Now Pakistan will play its cards. Despite India's propaganda, the common consensus is that during Musharraf's tenure support for Kashmiri groups was largely eliminated. Pakistan has already stated that it will now exercise all options, and i believe one of the options is the training/arming of Kashmiri fighters. Pakistan has largely restricted support in the form of small fire arms, but the question is, will Pakistan increase the support to include weapons of heavier caliber?

We should go to war.
We gave thousands of lives for a cause which is in danger.
Make it costly for india.
They would soon scrap Indus water treaty if we stay silent.

And what will war achieve? Whether we like it or not, we cannot wrestle militarily Jammu Kashmir from India. The blowback will be far too hot from the Indian side.

 

[Meengla]

Go play your role in perhaps the most powerful media outlet in the world. Post Comments there. My own Comment should be coming up and I will post here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[Viny]

Now Pakistan will play its cards. Despite India's propaganda, the common consensus is that during Musharraf's tenure support for Kashmiri groups was largely eliminated. Pakistan has already stated that it will now exercise all options, and i believe one of the options is the training/arming of Kashmiri fighters. Pakistan has largely restricted support in the form of small fire arms, but the question is, will Pakistan increase the support to include weapons of heavier caliber?



And what will war achieve? Whether we like it or not, we cannot wrestle militarily Jammu Kashmir from India. The blowback will be far too hot from the Indian side.

And what will you tell to those FATF guys with Danda sitting in your country?
Terrorism is never going to be solution. If India and Pakistan could get independence using non Violence means then why preach violence to kashmiris ?

 

[notorious_eagle]

And what will you tell to those FATF guys with Danda sitting in your country?

You're correct, FATF is a big issue right now. I believe this is where Pakistan has to get creative to make sure it covers its tracks extremely well just like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, India etc do. Pakistan has a surplus of weapons, and a big pile of this stockpile gets destroyed every year. In addition, Pakistan has captured tons and tons of weapons/ammo from the TTP and BLA. This is where Pakistan has to get creative and ensure that stockpile that is destined to be destroyed or was captured ends up in the hands of Kashmiri freedom fighters without any finger prints. Also, the pressure from FATF is largely based on curbing groups that are targeting the West and has not really been linked to Kashmiri fighters.

Terrorism is never going to be solution. If India and Pakistan could get independence using non Violence means then why preach violence to kashmiris ?

I wouldn't call it terrorism, i would call it Kashmiris fighting against subjugation by the Indian State. Muslims in other parts of India have largely accepted subjugation by the Indian State and their status as second class citizens, but Kashmiris have always resisted this status, and that is why it's Pakistan's moral responsibility to help them by arming them to the teeth since Pakistan cannot help them outright through military force.

I don't think Pakistan/India are good examples in this particular scenario. Britain was a spent force after WW2, and simply didn't have the resources to subjugate the subcontinent. India on the other hand is a strong power, and has ample resources to subjugate the Kashmiri population. No amount of Non-Violence will convince the Indian State to grant freedoms and rights to the Kashmiris. This is why i believe violence is the only option for Kashmiris to exercise their dignity and self respect.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

And what will war achieve? Whether we like it or not, we cannot wrestle militarily Jammu Kashmir from India. The blowback will be far too hot from the Indian side.

Chengez khan would have died in exile if he had ur brain. Muslims would have been crushed by roman and persions if they thought like u.
Its all about strategy and will power.

 

[Viny]

You're correct, FATF is a big issue right now. I believe this is where Pakistan has to get creative to make sure it covers its tracks extremely well just like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, India etc do. Pakistan has a surplus of weapons, and a big pile of this stockpile gets destroyed every year. In addition, Pakistan has captured tons and tons of weapons/ammo from the TTP and BLA. This is where Pakistan has to get creative and ensure that stockpile that is destined to be destroyed or was captured ends up in the hands of Kashmiri freedom fighters without any finger prints. Also, the pressure from FATF is largely based on curbing groups that are targeting the West and has not really been linked to Kashmiri fighters.



I wouldn't call it terrorism, i would call it Kashmiris fighting against subjugation by the Indian State. Muslims in other parts of India have largely accepted subjugation by the Indian State and their status as second class citizens, but Kashmiris have always resisted this status, and that is why it's Pakistan's moral responsibility to help them by arming them to the teeth since Pakistan cannot help them outright through military force.

I don't think Pakistan/India are good examples in this particular scenario. Britain was a spent force after WW2, and simply didn't have the resources to subjugate the subcontinent. India on the other hand is a strong power, and has ample resources to subjugate the Kashmiri population. No amount of Non-Violence will convince the Indian State to grant freedoms and rights to the Kashmiris. This is why i believe violence is the only option for Kashmiris to exercise their dignity and self respect.

Any act of violence against the government bodies supported by 3rd party will be called terrorism that the new norm. And the global alliances are following the same norm, so it can will never get support from anyone on larger platform. Only way out would be to go for non violence and non-cooperation. But that will take way to long to get any acceptance. The better way out would be to build the better system for region and empower the people of region while under the umbrella of India. Once there is ample resources in terms of both learned humans as well monetary then plan to gain more control and autonomy. Until then any struggle for freedom makes no sense when there is no infrastructure ready to support the freedom.

 

[Umar27]

Kashmiris in Kashmir and around the world, need to get the world's attention. In foreign cities, massive peaceful demonstrations; even civil disobedience to get the world's attention. India has to be shammed in front of the world, especially the US.

Civil disobedience in England, with a large Kashmiri population, against Indian government or Tourism office may get enough media attention. Massive Sit Ins obstructing normal business.

https://www.ncpedia.org/sites/default/files/images/enc/IC-21.png
https://www.crmvet.org/info/sitins.pdf

Here is one example of a Massive protest in the UK, but with Sit ins, they have to obstruct business as usual.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ed-in-london-for-extinction-rebellion-protest

The Kashmiris need to use the laws of India against it. Just as Gandhi showed the hypocrisy of the British Empire, so to must the Kashmiri inside and outside Kashmir need to show the hypocrisy of "Democratic" India.

Kashmirs can agitate the Gulf Arabs and Nigerians to embargo India of their oil, in a manner similar to the 1973 oil embargo. @Khafee how would this go over in Saudia? Nigeria plus the Arabs make up over half of India;s oil, and they are already in a weakened position because they can't get Iranian oil, so have to import more Gulf Arab oil; hence the Arab have more leverage here.

Another avenue of protest is getting African countries that trade with India aware of the human rights violations India is committing in Kashmir. Starting in South Africa, which is living with the memory of apartheid, the Kashmiris, or Desi community in general, there can go to the media and expose Indian violations against a democratically elected representative put under house arrest to suppress the will of the Kashmiri people. This news and activists spreading this news can travel around Africa, and let media and other democratic people's groups know, especially in countries doing a lot of trade with India. This can also be done in Europe. Especially in countries of Eastern Europe that lived under Soviet rule. Poland can be reminded of the Solidarity movement, and other eastern European allies can be found piece by piece, forming an international coalition to sanction India. Even a few percent loss to the India economy will be felt, and world condemnation will hurt India's soft power image, putting pressure on Modi to reverse course.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/indias-top-import-partners/

This should get Regional and International friends of both Pakistan and India, such as the Arabs and the Americans to pressure the two nations to resolve the Kashmir dispute.
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India knows that the people of Kashmir, either want Independence or Annexation with Pakistan, but very few would want to stay with India. Hence this move to forcefully assimilate Kashmir.

Kashmiris in Kashmir and around the world, need to get the world's attention. In foreign cities, massive peaceful demonstrations; even civil disobedience to get the world's attention. India has to be shammed in front of the world, especially the US.

Civil disobedience in England, with a large Kashmiri population, against Indian government or Tourism office may get enough media attention. Massive Sit Ins

Unfortunately any large scale sit in protest or civil disobedience by Pakistani Kashmiri happening here in the UK is only the stuff of dreams for those elders who take Kashmir issue and Pak india issue seriously.
British Pakistanis here are too into bollywood and indian sikh pangra music to be ever be thinking or worrying about Kashmir they are just tv head redbull head coke head weed head useless no good for nothing demographics with their mums watching indian soap dramas on tv all day.
Even the decent hard working ladies and gentlemen plus the Deen practicing segment of British Pakistanis would just say we love india we must resolve things peacefully imran khan can deal with it blah blah blah and would never be involved in any such large scale street demo activities.

Its sad that i have to say this as a British born Pakistani myself but its the truth.

I just talked about England here not the rest of the western world where the Pakistani populations are so much smaller and powerless than ours

 

[notorious_eagle]

Chengez khan would have died in exile if he had ur brain. Muslims would have been crushed by roman and persions if they thought like u.
Its all about strategy and will power.

Sure off course, you have a better strategic mindset and will power then professionals who spend their lives dedicated to fighting India, but you off course have more will power and strategic mind then them.

We will give you a gun, why don't you go fight the Indians rather then being a fanboy since you got Chenghez Khan blood in you right.

Any act of violence against the government bodies supported by 3rd party will be called terrorism that the new norm. And the global alliances are following the same norm, so it can will never get support from anyone on larger platform. Only way out would be to go for non violence and non-cooperation. But that will take way to long to get any acceptance. The better way out would be to build the better system for region and empower the people of region while under the umbrella of India. Once there is ample resources in terms of both learned humans as well monetary then plan to gain more control and autonomy. Until then any struggle for freedom makes no sense when there is no infrastructure ready to support the freedom.

I will give it to you, your post really made me smile. Its good to see such idealistic and positive thinking individuals such as yourself. Your thinking has no place in realpolitik and the real world, but i commend you and hope you carry on with this vision. Best of luck to you.

 

[CIA Mole]

Everytime the economy goes bad you gotta distract the people with a war.
I like how the indians chose monsoon season.

Pakistan needs to fight asymmetric warfare. Maybe get China to hack the shit out of the Indians.

 

[zn426]

War is for those who either have unchallenged power (America) or for those who are incapable of using their brain to resolve issues. Pakistan fits neither category and has no reason to start a war. India is run by a bunch of inbred swines, let them dig their own graves and Indians will bury them in it.

I disagree with the idea that the Indian leadership are fools. They can afford a show of brinkmanship right now and while they're cornered, end of day they have the financial resources to make this work as no country in Asia aside from China will really want to poke the elephant-the smaller countries in the region will back India because they want money and trade, something Pakistan isn't in a position to offer much of right now. Russia, US might look at them like they're crazy at the moment, but there are too many vested interests in both countries that will go with whatever India does long term.

You have failed to look at the big picture. The Kashmir isn't in danger, India is, as it's leadership is trying to cover it's pathetic mistakes, a slowing economy and a gradually degrading international relations standing. Let Modi's ratings nose dive and sensible Indians (yes they exist) demolish Modi's government with No Confidence Vote.

Slowing economies are relative. Every country goes through ebbs and flows, and as long as the government doesn't mess around too much with the economy, things will get better-India has a decent economic base overall. Modi's government will have five years to repair relations with their allies as long as they win this Kashmir fight.

As the current trend is permitted to carry on, Modi and his yuppies have already made things way too costly for India. Even India's allies are like; "WTF is wrong with this country?!!" Modi's actions are to appease his fascist followers, regular Indians will not allow this to go on for long. If their economy was good, then regular Indians would've not done anything. That isn't the case however.

If it's Modi and his leadership that are the problem, the BJP and their allies in Parliament can always hold a vote and put another PM in office. But they wont, because regular Indians didn't elect another party when they had the chance. Regular Indians have endorsed Modi's approach twice now. It's time to stop sticking our heads in the sand over this idea that Modi and his leadership are somehow going to get booted from office.

What Indus Treaty? India has been building dams in Kashmir for quite sometime. Floods in Pakistan in the last 20 years have been as a direct cause of it. Scrapping the Indus Water Treaty wouldn't really achieve much against a country which has faced severe sanctions, flooded many times and has had successive corrupt governments in power. Despite that, Pakistan still stands and will continue to do so "IF" they work toward unity under the banner of Islam.

Maybe. Water is vitally necessary to Pakistan. The billion tree tsunami (and now its national equivalent) need water to keep those trees alive. As a major agricultural producer, water is also vital. Pakistan has added 70M+ people in the last 20 years, pretty much all of it from high birth rates. The oldest of those are just reaching the age of marriage and starting to have children. Pakistan is a relatively young country, and active, young people need a ton of water as do their hungry, growing children. This is why IK was so big about getting the dam fund going at the start of his administration. Without water, Pakistan dies.

Understand one thing, Pakistan has CPEC, Afghan Peace, Eradication of Corruption in Bureaucracy, 1 Billion Trees Project and Educational Reforms to focus on. Modi can jump around like a butt-naked monkey all day long, it isn't going to stop the inevitable, which is India's failing government.

If Pakistan as a country is going to achieve, the central government likely needs a major employee lay-off to get rid of the infestation of corrupt thieves from top to bottom. They also need to take a stand. Pakistan has lined up everyone behind it, but China, US, ME want to see Pakistan stand up and be strong. It's in times like these that history is written and decided. Ironically, a Mahatma Ghandi quote applies to this situation quite well:

First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you
Then you win.

India has tried to ignore IK's leadership and write it off. They've laughed at the idea that he can achieve anything. Now they're ready to fight, with a bloody nose from February, IK's excellent diplomatic work putting them on the back foot, and the idea that India can simply overwhelm Pakistan when push comes to shove. If Imran Khan wants to win, he needs to capitalize on everything he's done thus far and take Modi's wicket. He's put all the fielders in the right places (US, China, Saudi, etc.), the run rate is climbing, it's here that he goes for the throat and wins the match. You can't win by bowling wide. He has to bowl at the stumps now.

 

[rak_987]

All this modi and Amit Shah have planned to handle internal conflict, they will be screwed and their forces stretched if PAkistan mobilises they're toast. We need decision making leadership . Imran Khan has been too stupid to take such decisions.