Vietnam strategic plans for building defence capability: Facts and Analysis

[BoQ77]

US eases arm ban of non-lethal weapons to Vietnam in 2007 for what ? anyone know ?
@Viet @William Hung @Carlosa @Aqsuperman @JaiMin

 

[BoQ77]

The Vietnam Ambassador in US told media that "there will be big agreements announced during the visit of the US President Obama to Vietnam"

 

[BoQ77]

US eases arm ban of non-lethal weapons to Vietnam in 2007 for what ? anyone know ?
@Viet @William Hung @Carlosa @Aqsuperman @JaiMin

still await for your feedback, my friends.

 

[BoQ77]

==========
Sigma-class deal - the reality ?
==========
In 2004, 2005, 2006... Vietnam bought many used Su-22 from Czech, Poland, ... who has been in NATO-membership since 1999.
That's weird to somebody, that NATO members sell bombers with full spare parts and ammunition to Vietnam. who under US embargo of lethal and non lethal arm sale at the time.
But actually, that worked. The bombers wholly built by Soviet Union and didn't violate any regulation when sold to Vietnam even by NATO members.
LOL.
We shouldn't expect any resale of used F-16 to Vietnam until now because F-16 is a lethal weapon manufactured on US technology.
Later, in 2007 President Bush eased the arm ban to Vietnam by allow sales of non lethal weapons based on case-by-case basis.
------------------
The rumor of Sigma class corvettes deal spring to our mind on or about 2009.
at the same time, this class was marketed in Malaysia, later defeated by Gowind-class

In 2011, 2012 the news say Vietnam negotiating the deal including 2+2 Sigma 9814 and sales of weapons, sensors for them was registered.

Defense Industry Daily : Dutch SIGMA Ships for Vietnam?

...SIGMA ships usually use Thales for combat systems and radars, and MBDA for missiles, but customers like Vietnam can change that if they want. Vietnam certainly has a long history with France, who would undoubtedly be interested in resuming some level of defense ties. On the other hand, compatibility with the Russian weapons on its other naval ships would offer advantages of its own. If they choose to change the SIGMA’s standard armament, the most likely substitutions involve incorporating a Russian 76.2mm AK-176M naval gun instead of Oto Melara’s 76mm, SA-18 very short range anti-aircraft missiles instead of MBDA’s Mistral, and/or Kh-53E anti-ship missiles, instead of the French Exocet.

This fact actually didn't say that Vietnam concluded the deal with Sigma-class but show interesting in Thales sensors and Exocets missiles and TOT of shipbuilding.
-------------------
It's interesting that Vietnam started at shipbuilding segmen first with Damen DN-2000. They didn't order any ship built in European, but start to build 8x DN-2000 since 2011-2014 under Damen supervisor, but only delivered for the first time in Oct. 2013. And no sensors, no weapons. They leave the chance to many others.

The sale registration of Thales sensors and Exocet missiles or MBDA VL MICA SAM provided another message "Vietnam is in position to seek for European weapons and/or ships with those weapons" We can buy.

>>>> That leads to the visit of a French Navy Gowind-class ship to Vietnam in May 2013. It's interesting that the ship provided the same Thales sensors and Exocet missiles, as what armed on Sigma-class.

The Vietnam message was well received

 

[Carlosa]

==========
Sigma-class deal - the reality ?
==========
In 2004, 2005, 2006... Vietnam bought many used Su-22 from Czech, Poland, ... who has been in NATO-membership since 1999.
That's weird to somebody, that NATO members sell bombers with full spare parts and ammunition to Vietnam. who under US embargo of lethal and non lethal arm sale at the time.
But actually, that worked. The bombers wholly built by Soviet Union and didn't violate any regulation when sold to Vietnam even by NATO members.
LOL.
We shouldn't expect any resale of used F-16 to Vietnam until now because F-16 is a lethal weapon manufactured on US technology.
Later, in 2007 President Bush eased the arm ban to Vietnam by allow sales of non lethal weapons based on case-by-case basis.
------------------
The rumor of Sigma class corvettes deal spring to our mind on or about 2009.
at the same time, this class was marketed in Malaysia, later defeated by Gowind-class

In 2011, 2012 the news say Vietnam negotiating the deal including 2+2 Sigma 9814 and sales of weapons, sensors for them was registered.

Defense Industry Daily : Dutch SIGMA Ships for Vietnam?

...SIGMA ships usually use Thales for combat systems and radars, and MBDA for missiles, but customers like Vietnam can change that if they want. Vietnam certainly has a long history with France, who would undoubtedly be interested in resuming some level of defense ties. On the other hand, compatibility with the Russian weapons on its other naval ships would offer advantages of its own. If they choose to change the SIGMA’s standard armament, the most likely substitutions involve incorporating a Russian 76.2mm AK-176M naval gun instead of Oto Melara’s 76mm, SA-18 very short range anti-aircraft missiles instead of MBDA’s Mistral, and/or Kh-53E anti-ship missiles, instead of the French Exocet.

This fact actually didn't say that Vietnam concluded the deal with Sigma-class but show interesting in Thales sensors and Exocets missiles and TOT of shipbuilding.
-------------------
It's interesting that Vietnam started at shipbuilding segmen first with Damen DN-2000. They didn't order any ship built in European, but start to build 8x DN-2000 since 2011-2014 under Damen supervisor, but only delivered for the first time in Oct. 2013. And no sensors, no weapons. They leave the chance to many others.

The sale registration of Thales sensors and Exocet missiles or MBDA VL MICA SAM provided another message "Vietnam is in position to seek for European weapons and/or ships with those weapons" We can buy.

>>>> That leads to the visit of a French Navy Gowind-class ship to Vietnam in May 2013. It's interesting that the ship provided the same Thales sensors and Exocet missiles, as what armed on Sigma-class.

The Vietnam message was well received

Looks good so far, but need to continue, like how the deal fell apart.

 

[xunzi]

An honest question to our Vietnamese friend, especially you @BoQ77, would you support military base in exchange for removing of lethal weapon ban?

 

[BoQ77]

An honest question to our Vietnamese friend, especially you @BoQ77, would you support military base in exchange for removing of lethal weapon ban?

whether I support it or not, it doesn't matter.
Vietnam doesn't accept foreign military bases in our land. At least that is the current policy.

 

[William Hung]

still await for your feedback, my friends.

Hmm I’m still trying to think what the answer is.

 

[BoQ77]

Last year, Gen Lori sent a letter to grant a Vietnamese AF officer the scholarship of US Aviation Leadership Program.
this act tells something:
- This scholarship only granted to allied or friendly countries of US.
- Senior Captain. Huy would take the same as below Iraqi pilot training, and later would help to train the next gen. airmen in Vietnam
Does this imply, Vietnam has plan to buy dozen of US aircrafts ?

The Aviation Leadership Program (ALP) was established to provide pilot training and related training to air force personnel in allied developing states. Authorized by Section 1178 of the National Defense Authorization Act for FY 1994 and reinforced by Defense Department Directive Number 2010.12, ALP funding is drawn from Air Force funds. In coordination with the State Department and the Defense Security Assistance Agency, the Air Force must submit countries for approval of training. The Unified Combatant Commands are also permitted to submit a list of prioritized countries to receive training. Additional training permitted under this authority includes language training and programs “necessary to promote better awareness and understanding of the democratic institutions and social framework of the United States.” The law also allows the provision of clothing and supplies to the trainees, as well as a living stipend. The program was created recognizing that such efforts could promote U.S. national security interests and improve bilateral relations with recipient countries.

------------------------
First Iraqi ALP student graduates
By Senior Airman Jacob Corbin, 14th Flying Training Wing Public Affairs / Published July 24, 2009

1 of 1
DOWNLOAD HI-RES / PHOTO DETAILS
Second Lieutenant Omar AlNuaimi, Iraqi air force, graduated July 24 alongside his fellow student pilots in Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training Class 09-12 Columbus Air Force Base. (U.S. Air Force photo)

0
PRINT | E-MAIL

COLUMBUS AIR FORCE BASE, Miss. -- Three years ago a young soon-to-be pilot began his journey to earning his Silver Wings.

Second Lieutenant Omar AlNuaimi, Iraqi air force, graduated July 24 alongside his fellow student pilots in Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training Class 09-12 at the Kaye Auditorium.

"It feels great (to graduate)," Lieutenant AlNuaimi said. "Since the Iraqi air force was founded, until this moment, we haven't had students who have graduated from the U.S. It's been great and wonderful to be trained and get my wings."

The lieutenant said he was shown great respect and understanding during his training, and in turn, so was his country.

"This is one step forward for breaking a huge wall between our two nations," he said.

While he's happy to graduate, he said he would never have gotten this far without the support and help of others along the way.

He credits the men and women he has encountered and who have helped him in his journey from a young man raised to hate the western world (and the U.S. especially) to someone who would fight alongside its members and die for it.

This includes the man he said he considers a father figure, Lt. Col. Eddie Altizer, 43rd Flying Training Squadron T-6 flight commander.

"He is the greatest guy I have ever known," Lieutenant AlNuaimi said. "He is like a father to me; he really represents his country in the greatest way possible."

Lieutenant AlNuaimi will be taking the new skills and techniques he's learned here in the United States and using them to help train the next generation of Iraqi airmen in Kirkuk, Iraq, and said the lessons and experience passed on to him by his instructor pilots here will be invaluable.

"I have gained good experience, and I will be glad to take all this experience back to my country and teach," he said.

He said the instructor pilots do more than just their job here; they have a second as an English teacher, too.

"They help bridge the gap, find similar words to help you understand," he said.
He explained most aeronautical terms are not found in English language translation dictionaries.

The lieutenant said the men and women who have helped him from day one have all taught him something valuable or made his journey possible, whether it be his English instructors at Lackland Air Force Base, the instructor pilots who taught him daily, crew chiefs who maintained the aircraft he flew or his "brothers" in pilot training alongside him.

In addition, the lieutenant said the men and women, students and spouses, of his flights and classes were there for him any minute of the day, anytime he needed help. That, coupled with the warm-welcome given to him by members of the local community, are what he said made his time here easy and pleasant.

He said when he met people, and told them he was from Columbus AFB, they accepted him with open arms.

"They treat us so very well and welcome us," he said.

The U.S. Air Force Aviation Leadership Program is a scholarship for undergraduate flying training. The scholarship also includes English language training for countries not exempt from English testing.
English language training is provided at the Defense Language Institute, Lackland AFD, Texas, with follow-on aviation training hosted by the 14th Flying Training Wing at Columbus AFB.

 

[BoQ77]

Looks good so far, but need to continue, like how the deal fell apart.

Vietnam know they are lacking of patrol surface ship. Quantity of OPV is needed to monitor our large EEZ.

Why not start to build some domestically once Damen agreed to support if Vietnam order large batch of DN2000 to strengthen the skills of building ships
It sounds more benefit to build 8 DN2000 in 4 shipyards at cost of a Sigma class. Quantity and skills are two achievements.

That is the right direction, as proved in oil rig incident 2014 last less than 2 months when the TT400 and TT200 ships must return home port very often for supplement, especially after some speedy chasing.

The next move is building themselves the ships with displacement of a heavy frigate or light destroyer featuring some stealth design.
Credit or donation would come with particular conditions. But our money our decision.
Able to build bigger ships means able to build smaller ships, but not sure vice versa is true.

Western provided the state of art ship building tech but not TOT of AShM
Russia provided ToT of AShM but inferior in ship building tech.
So why not combine those?

 

[VNSeptemberSnow]

An honest question to our Vietnamese friend, especially you @BoQ77, would you support military base in exchange for removing of lethal weapon ban?

no and never . we don't wanna to pay bill for american military base in our land (like south korea) .while us soldier in there rape our woman , call us as : gook , slanted eyes , zipper head , ching chang chong all the time
and ofcouse we don't wanna be like Philippines , iraq
force to buy only western standard military stuff . but quaility ~ garbage .with price more expensive than gold

lol look at them now . they buying trash post ww2 era ship as flag ship without anything . buying south korea trainer jet as main fighter without weapon to

while we buy steath submarine with missile launcher , fast attack missile ship , 4+ gen jet fighter

9/2011 new iraqi grovernment buy 18 F16IQ (C/D block 52) with the price 200 milions USD per one (seriously ? 200 mil $ /one ? F16 made by gold or something ?)
lol typical US low level subhuman sidekick .
with 200mil you can buy 4 russian su-30 . and they kick the shit out of F16 block 52 ***

 

[BoQ77]

TT-200 operates as sea shuttle bus between ports and DN-2000 and TT-400 during 2014 oil rig incident ( dated 27 May 2014 ).

Transit at DN-2000 CSB8001

As I see, DN-2000 class CSB8004 uses 4x CATerpillar engines ; Orbit VSAT ; LRAD equipment - US Origin ; and Navigating radars JRC/Alphatron Marine - Japan origin,

Japan has pledged to help pay to install radar systems, radios and other equipment on patrol ships operated by Vietnam's maritime police, NHK quoted Kishida as saying.

 

[BoQ77]

Russian shipyard to deliver two frigates for Vietnam in August, September
Military & Defense
May 17, 16:08 UTC+3
Two Project 11661 Gepard-3.9-class frigates will be delivered to Vietnam in August and September, Zelenodolsk Shipyard CEO Renat Mistakhov says

MOSCOW, May 17. /TASS/. Two Project 11661 Gepard-3.9-class frigates built by Russia’s Zelenodolsk Shipyard will be delivered to Vietnam in August and September, Shipyard CEO Renat Mistakhov said on Tuesday.

"We are currently building two ships for Vietnam. The first frigate has already been put afloat. The second vessel will be floated out on May 25," Mistakhov said. "We will deliver the two frigates to Vietnam in August and September."

The Vietnamese Navy received the first two Project 11661 frigates in 2011. A contract for the construction of another two Project 11661 ships was signed in 2012. The two ships were laid down in the autumn of 2013.

More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/876235

 

[Carlosa]

no and never . we don't wanna to pay bill for american military base in our land (like south korea) .while us soldier in there rape our woman , call us as : gook , slanted eyes , zipper head , ching chang chong all the time
and ofcouse we don't wanna be like Philippines , iraq
force to buy only western standard military stuff . but quaility ~ garbage .with price more expensive than gold

lol look at them now . they buying trash post ww2 era ship as flag ship without anything . buying south korea trainer jet as main fighter without weapon to

while we buy steath submarine with missile launcher , fast attack missile ship , 4+ gen jet fighter

9/2011 new iraqi grovernment buy 18 F16IQ (C/D block 52) with the price 200 milions USD per one (seriously ? 200 mil $ /one ? F16 made by gold or something ?)
lol typical US low level subhuman sidekick .
with 200mil you can buy 4 russian su-30 . and they kick the shit out of F16 block 52 ***

I just want to point out that the price comparison that you are doing between the F-16 and SU-30 price is not correct. The 200 million price for the F-16 is not just the flyaway price (the price for the Vietnamese SU-30 that is usually given is the flyaway price and oscillates between $50 and $65 million depending on the contract), that 200 million probably includes the spare parts, training and the maintenance of the plane which is often bigger than the purchase price. I'm not saying that that price is cheap, expensive or ok, I'm just saying that you are comparing two totally different things.

 

[Carlosa]

Russian shipyard to deliver two frigates for Vietnam in August, September
Military & Defense
May 17, 16:08 UTC+3
Two Project 11661 Gepard-3.9-class frigates will be delivered to Vietnam in August and September, Zelenodolsk Shipyard CEO Renat Mistakhov says

MOSCOW, May 17. /TASS/. Two Project 11661 Gepard-3.9-class frigates built by Russia’s Zelenodolsk Shipyard will be delivered to Vietnam in August and September, Shipyard CEO Renat Mistakhov said on Tuesday.

"We are currently building two ships for Vietnam. The first frigate has already been put afloat. The second vessel will be floated out on May 25," Mistakhov said. "We will deliver the two frigates to Vietnam in August and September."

The Vietnamese Navy received the first two Project 11661 frigates in 2011. A contract for the construction of another two Project 11661 ships was signed in 2012. The two ships were laid down in the autumn of 2013.

More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/876235

@BoQ77 oi, Looking at the Wikipedia page for the Vietnamese coast guard, I see a TT-1500 ship, do you know anything about that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Coast_Guard