What's new

Vietnam Defence Forum

From the article, "Seoul signs defence accord with Warsaw..."

Other defence industrial accords have been signed in recent months with Vietnam and Thailand. The former regards Seoul as a potential supplier of artillery systems, helicopters and naval vessels, while the latter signed a USD468 million contract in August to procure a multi-purpose frigate from South Korea's Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME).

SK is also a potential supplier of artillery, helicopters and naval vessels.
 
Getting tech from the DPRK is nothing to be proud about :/

It is if your tech is below them, but keep in mind that they are doing quite well when it comes to ballistic missiles. All those iranian Shahab missiles and the Pakistani ones are actually North Korean missiles built under North Korean license and assistance. They are finishing an ICBM that can reach the US west coast, so you might want to reconsider your thinking about them :partay:.
 
From the article

Intruder alert: Russia's long-range air-defence missiles (Nov 2014)

you may have already know about this:

One major change introduced by some late-production examples of the S-300PMU1 was the replacement of the 36D6 and 76N6 target-acquisition radars with a single design, the 96L6E 'Cheese Board'. This was based on the 96L6 surveillance radar developed for the S-400 system, and was used for at least two of the S-300PMU1 systems sold to Vietnam. Like the radars it replaced, the 96L6E can be raised on a mast to improve low-level coverage.

Existing S-300PMU1 systems can be upgraded to the S-300PMU2 Favorit standard by an in-country modification programme. The hardware does not have to be returned to the manufacturer for this work to be done.

The article has some good write up on the S-400 as well.
 
In an interview Wednesday, Sen. John McCain, the incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he has already discussed a new national-security agenda with fellow Republicans Bob Corker and Richard Burr, the likely incoming chairmen of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

“Burr and Corker and I will be working closely together on everything,” McCain said. “For example, arms for Ukraine’s [government], examination of our strategy in the Middle East, our assets with regard to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin in the region, China’s continued encroachment in the South China Sea.
------------------------------------------------------------
China's free ride will be over soon, the final step of this change in the US attitude to china will be in 2 years when the new hard line US president comes into office, either a republican or Mrs. hard core Hillary Clinton.
 
The Kilo subs are just the first step of Vietnam's submarine arm.

Currently, the Vietnamese navy is very seriously considering to order either the Amur 1650 or the Amur 950 subs from Russia. They are inspecting the submarine details right now.

The Amur 950 (smaller than the Kilo, 58.5 meters) carries AIP and a 10 cell Brahmos / Club launcher and can do a salvo missile launching of 10 missiles in less than 2 minutes. $450 million.

@Viet Feeling happier now?

View attachment 150015 View attachment 150016
View attachment 150067
that is a good news. the navy must urgently increase the number of subs. one squadron at least. I wonder if we decide for the amur class, will the russians deliver us with land-attack cruise missiles?

I bet China puts pressure on Russia and India not to provide Vietnam with long range lethal weapons.
 
Last edited:
In an interview Wednesday, Sen. John McCain, the incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he has already discussed a new national-security agenda with fellow Republicans Bob Corker and Richard Burr, the likely incoming chairmen of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

“Burr and Corker and I will be working closely together on everything,” McCain said. “For example, arms for Ukraine’s [government], examination of our strategy in the Middle East, our assets with regard to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin in the region, China’s continued encroachment in the South China Sea.
------------------------------------------------------------
China's free ride will be over soon, the final step of this change in the US attitude to china will be in 2 years when the new hard line US president comes into office, either a republican or Mrs. hard core Hillary Clinton.
I read from the news today, the lifting of partial arms embargo is now in place as the proposal has passed the Congress.
I like John McCain :D
 
US willing to sell ballistic missile defense system to VN?

From the article

"The Promise and Limits of Foreign Markets" in National Defense.
(Oct 2013)
unlikely it is going to happen soon unless the conflict in the south china sea gets out of control and slips into an armed confrontation.
 
Last edited:
some from the analysis are new, some not.


MILITARY, SOUTH CHINA SEA, VIETNAM
Vietnam’s Naval Upgrades Likely Will Limit but not Deter China in the South China Sea

by cogitASIA Staff • September 12, 2014 • 0 Comments
By Zachary Abuza


HQ-011_frigate_Da_Nang_CC_800[1].jpg


There has been significant media attention about Vietnam’s acquisition of six Russian-made Kilo-class submarines. Two have been delivered and are going through training runs. One is undergoing sea trials in Russia while the last three will be delivered by 2016. The submarines are equipped with SS-N-27 Sizzler anti-ship cruise missiles that have a range of about 190 miles. The $2 billion deal will give Vietnam the largest and most modern submarine fleet in Southeast Asia by 2016.

In addition to the submarines, Vietnam has made significant upgrades to its Soviet-era surface warfare capabilities. These upgrades include four Gepard-class light frigates from Russia with two more on order, four Molniya-class corvettes with four more being produced under license in Vietnam, and two Sigma-class corvettes on order from the Netherlands.

Vietnam’s missile capabilities are perhaps its greatest deterrent: Hanoi has 40 SS-N-26 Yakhont shore-to-ship cruise missiles, known as “carrier killers,”and is expected to order more. It has negotiated licenses for domestic production of three classes of advanced anti-ship missiles, including the P-5 SS-N-3 Shaddock, P-15 Termit, and Kh-35E/UE Uran SS-N-25 Switchblade. Other anti-ship missiles include French-built Exocets and Russian built SS-N-27 Sizzlers deployed on the Kilo-class submarines.

Vietnam’s small but modern air force is configured for anti-ship/maritime operations. Hanoi is pressing the U.S. government to lift its ban on lethal weapons sales so that Vietnam can purchase an unspecified number of Lockheed P-3 Orion anti-submarine warfare planes.

In sum, Vietnam has acquired a significant arsenal to give it a deterrent capability against the Chinese navy in the South China Sea. As one analyst told Reuters: “From the point of view of Chinese assumptions, the Vietnamese deterrent is already at a point where it must be very real.” Quantitatively, the Vietnamese military lags the Chinese military, but it has closed the qualitative gap.

Yet is Vietnam’s arsenal really a deterrent? For a deterrent (conventional or nuclear) to work, it must be credible, proportional, clearly communicated, and target what the other side values.

Vietnam has clearly not hidden anything about its military acquisitions. Even the Reuters report was carried in state-owned media. Hanoi wants Chinese military planners to take notice. And Vietnam’s hardware is focused on anti-naval operations: it knows that the navy is the pride of China, which will propel it to super power status and project its hegemony in the region. The Vietnamese are acutely aware of how vulnerable prestige items such as the Chinese aircraft carrier Liaoning actually are. Yet China places a far greater value on becoming the undisputed hegemon of the western Pacific, and the loss of several vessels may very well be an acceptable cost to it.

Is the threat proportional? Again the answer is yes. If armed conflict erupts, Vietnam will target China’s army and naval forces in the South China Sea. They will presumably not target population centers or threaten to escalate the conflict. Vietnamese military strategy is based on being able to inflict unacceptable damage in a limited period of time. But the quantitative difference between the Chinese and Vietnamese militaries gives Beijing an overwhelming advantage.

Is Vietnam’s deterrent capability credible? Here the answer is mixed. On the one hand, the Vietnamese have a long track record of resisting foreign domination and invasion. Vietnam’s nationalist populace demands a firm stance. Yet while the new hardware is being brought online quickly, few really know how, for example, Vietnam’s submarines have changed their military doctrine. Is their existence alone enough to deter China?

The irony is that people assume that Vietnam’s submarine force is a continuation of the country’s rich tradition of asymmetric warfare. And in a way it is. Chinese military planners really should take notice. No country in Southeast Asia has brought a more formidable arsenal on line so quickly. No other country in the region poses a military challenge to China’s ambitions in the South China Sea, or has demonstrated any willingness to use force to defend its claims.

Yet Vietnam’s asymmetric deterrent capability cannot credibly deter China’s own asymmetric, quasi-militarized operations. Deterrence will not work on measures short of war, including dredging and land reclamation, oil exploration rigs on Vietnam’s continental shelf, unilateral bans on fishing, harassment of Vietnamese oil exploration, or the declaration of an air defense identification zone over the South China Sea. China is too smart, too diplomatically adroit to push too hard. Beijing will push aggressively and then back down when ASEAN begins to coalesce and demand that China signs a binding code of conduct.

Should armed conflict erupt, Vietnam has the capability to inflict damage on China. But could Hanoi inflict enough damage to actually deter it? The answer is simply no, because Vietnam cannot fight a sustained conflict against its large neighbor, either economically or militarily. And that puts a big hole in its deterrent capability. Vietnam could hurt its northern neighbor, but the Chinese military could respond by escalating in ways that could threaten the Vietnamese regime’s hold on power. The dirty secret about deterrence is you have to be willing to follow through and lose what you might value most in the process.

Dr. Zachary Abuza is principal of Southeast Asia Analytics, and writes on Southeast Asian politics and security issues. Follow him on twitter @ZachAbuza.
 
In an interview Wednesday, Sen. John McCain, the incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he has already discussed a new national-security agenda with fellow Republicans Bob Corker and Richard Burr, the likely incoming chairmen of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

“Burr and Corker and I will be working closely together on everything,” McCain said. “For example, arms for Ukraine’s [government], examination of our strategy in the Middle East, our assets with regard to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin in the region, China’s continued encroachment in the South China Sea.
------------------------------------------------------------
China's free ride will be over soon, the final step of this change in the US attitude to china will be in 2 years when the new hard line US president comes into office, either a republican or Mrs. hard core Hillary Clinton.

From the article
"Republican Congress can set defence debate, but budget challenges remain" (Nov 5, 2014)

"Notably, John McCain is expected to be the SASC chairman and use the position to rail against costly acquisition programmes such as the navy's Littoral Combat Ship and the Pentagon's F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, as well as promote his foreign policy beliefs that often strongly favour military action."

:azn:

unlikely it is going to happen soon unless the conflict in the south china sea gets out of control and slips into an armed confrontation.

By the time the SCS slips out of control and into armed confrontation, setting up an ABM system would be too late.
 
some from the analysis are new, some not.


MILITARY, SOUTH CHINA SEA, VIETNAM
Vietnam’s Naval Upgrades Likely Will Limit but not Deter China in the South China Sea

by cogitASIA Staff • September 12, 2014 • 0 Comments
By Zachary Abuza


View attachment 150181

There has been significant media attention about Vietnam’s acquisition of six Russian-made Kilo-class submarines. Two have been delivered and are going through training runs. One is undergoing sea trials in Russia while the last three will be delivered by 2016. The submarines are equipped with SS-N-27 Sizzler anti-ship cruise missiles that have a range of about 190 miles. The $2 billion deal will give Vietnam the largest and most modern submarine fleet in Southeast Asia by 2016.

In addition to the submarines, Vietnam has made significant upgrades to its Soviet-era surface warfare capabilities. These upgrades include four Gepard-class light frigates from Russia with two more on order, four Molniya-class corvettes with four more being produced under license in Vietnam, and two Sigma-class corvettes on order from the Netherlands.

Vietnam’s missile capabilities are perhaps its greatest deterrent: Hanoi has 40 SS-N-26 Yakhont shore-to-ship cruise missiles, known as “carrier killers,”and is expected to order more. It has negotiated licenses for domestic production of three classes of advanced anti-ship missiles, including the P-5 SS-N-3 Shaddock, P-15 Termit, and Kh-35E/UE Uran SS-N-25 Switchblade. Other anti-ship missiles include French-built Exocets and Russian built SS-N-27 Sizzlers deployed on the Kilo-class submarines.

Vietnam’s small but modern air force is configured for anti-ship/maritime operations. Hanoi is pressing the U.S. government to lift its ban on lethal weapons sales so that Vietnam can purchase an unspecified number of Lockheed P-3 Orion anti-submarine warfare planes.

In sum, Vietnam has acquired a significant arsenal to give it a deterrent capability against the Chinese navy in the South China Sea. As one analyst told Reuters: “From the point of view of Chinese assumptions, the Vietnamese deterrent is already at a point where it must be very real.” Quantitatively, the Vietnamese military lags the Chinese military, but it has closed the qualitative gap.

Yet is Vietnam’s arsenal really a deterrent? For a deterrent (conventional or nuclear) to work, it must be credible, proportional, clearly communicated, and target what the other side values.

Vietnam has clearly not hidden anything about its military acquisitions. Even the Reuters report was carried in state-owned media. Hanoi wants Chinese military planners to take notice. And Vietnam’s hardware is focused on anti-naval operations: it knows that the navy is the pride of China, which will propel it to super power status and project its hegemony in the region. The Vietnamese are acutely aware of how vulnerable prestige items such as the Chinese aircraft carrier Liaoning actually are. Yet China places a far greater value on becoming the undisputed hegemon of the western Pacific, and the loss of several vessels may very well be an acceptable cost to it.

Is the threat proportional? Again the answer is yes. If armed conflict erupts, Vietnam will target China’s army and naval forces in the South China Sea. They will presumably not target population centers or threaten to escalate the conflict. Vietnamese military strategy is based on being able to inflict unacceptable damage in a limited period of time. But the quantitative difference between the Chinese and Vietnamese militaries gives Beijing an overwhelming advantage.

Is Vietnam’s deterrent capability credible? Here the answer is mixed. On the one hand, the Vietnamese have a long track record of resisting foreign domination and invasion. Vietnam’s nationalist populace demands a firm stance. Yet while the new hardware is being brought online quickly, few really know how, for example, Vietnam’s submarines have changed their military doctrine. Is their existence alone enough to deter China?

The irony is that people assume that Vietnam’s submarine force is a continuation of the country’s rich tradition of asymmetric warfare. And in a way it is. Chinese military planners really should take notice. No country in Southeast Asia has brought a more formidable arsenal on line so quickly. No other country in the region poses a military challenge to China’s ambitions in the South China Sea, or has demonstrated any willingness to use force to defend its claims.

Yet Vietnam’s asymmetric deterrent capability cannot credibly deter China’s own asymmetric, quasi-militarized operations. Deterrence will not work on measures short of war, including dredging and land reclamation, oil exploration rigs on Vietnam’s continental shelf, unilateral bans on fishing, harassment of Vietnamese oil exploration, or the declaration of an air defense identification zone over the South China Sea. China is too smart, too diplomatically adroit to push too hard. Beijing will push aggressively and then back down when ASEAN begins to coalesce and demand that China signs a binding code of conduct.

Should armed conflict erupt, Vietnam has the capability to inflict damage on China. But could Hanoi inflict enough damage to actually deter it? The answer is simply no, because Vietnam cannot fight a sustained conflict against its large neighbor, either economically or militarily. And that puts a big hole in its deterrent capability. Vietnam could hurt its northern neighbor, but the Chinese military could respond by escalating in ways that could threaten the Vietnamese regime’s hold on power. The dirty secret about deterrence is you have to be willing to follow through and lose what you might value most in the process.

Dr. Zachary Abuza is principal of Southeast Asia Analytics, and writes on Southeast Asian politics and security issues. Follow him on twitter @ZachAbuza.

Btw, the Molniya Corvettes are really nice ships. Do you know how many Vietnam intends to field?
 
By the time the SCS slips out of control and into armed confrontation, setting up an ABM system would be too late.
not being part of a US missile defence shield, because we will need to enter an military alliance with America otherwise. we don´t want to be the first who provokes China. what we need is an independent missile shield, best with a fleet of aegis destroyers, such as equipped by standard Missile 3 aboard of the USS destroyer Benfold. The US navy deploys such two ships to protect Japan.

the question: is America willing to provide us with such means?
Destroyers-with-ballistic-missile-defense-capability-heading-to-Japan[1].jpg
 

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom