Vietnam Defence Forum

[Viet]

...and a wide range of artillery guns

 

[William Hung]

that is nice if you have full access to Janes´s, pls post here. I don´t have it.

maybe this one: Oliver Hazard class
Dàn vũ khí "siêu khủng" ở tàu chiến Oliver Hazard VN sắp mua

View attachment 149594
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Your dream may come true. Well you can't get free Aegis, but if you lobby John McCain enough, he may consider transferring this OHP class frigate for free.

They have already offered to transfer, by grant, 2 each to Thailand and Mexico. They only need to pay for the refurbishment and transfer cost (~$30-40 million).

Would that satisfy your fantasy?

Even if the US charges the full price, it would still only be $120 million each including refurbishment.

 

[William Hung]

Indodefence 2014: Russia's Vympel sees Southeast Asian interest for Scorpion, Katran missile boats

By Ridzwan Rahmat, Jane's Navy International (Dec 1, 2014)

Vympel is seeing demand for smaller platforms with UAV capabilities in the Southeast Asia

The Russian company is embarking on a programme to market its Scorpion and Katran platforms in the region...

... "Another demand that we are seeing is for the usage of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) from onboard naval and coastguard vessels. What we are introducing are variants of the Scorpion and Katran boats that can embark UAV's similar in size to the Camcopter S-100 that is going to be used by a navy in this region", Chikayev added that the UAVs can be deployed for maritime surveillance, reconnaissance, and search and rescue (SAR) missions.

According to Chikayev, the company has been approached by "at least two" Southeast Asian navies and coast guard services but declined to reveal what these countries are.

COMMENT

At the Singapore Airshow in February 2014, Austrian firm Schiebel confirmed that it was in talks with the VietnamPeople's Navy (VPN) to supply the Camcopter S-100 rotary-wing unmanned aerial vehicle. Vympel's hints of its platform being configured to operate the UAV could be an indication that the VPN is looking to acquire the Scorpion and Katran boats. Vietnam is under pressure to improve its maritime surveillance capabilities especially after the May 2014 skirmish with China in the South China Sea.

Credit: Ridzwan Rahmat Jakarta

Copyright © IHS Global Limited, 2014

Jane's analyst thinks those Camcopter S-100 orders are for these smaller size boats and not for the bigger Sigma.

 

[Carlosa]

our s-300/400 and other missiles are land based defence shield and can destroy arial threats when they approach vietnamese mainland and come within range. our shield would never be capable to take down all incoming enemy missiles.

what we are missing is a sea based missile shield, that acts a prewarning system and destroys a part of targets midair. frigates and destroyers with sophisticated airdefence systems are the best means.

Not really, ballistic missiles come from the top and a land based system is what Vietnam needs. For a country like Japan is the other way around, the navy makes a shield against missiles coming from the direction of China (still coming from the top, but from china's direction), but for Vietnam, where the missiles will come from the chinese mainland (from the second artillery corps), a naval shield would be totally unnecessary and most inefficient at the same time. The ships would also be more vulnerable. @Nihonjin1051 What do you think?

S-300 / 400 can intercept a lot of missiles actually, but their capability to intercept is determined by how many fire control radars the battery has and by how many TEL's with interceptor missiles. Its up to Vietnam to buy enough of those 2 to intercept as many as VN wants.

 

[Carlosa]

not sure if this is already posted
VN self produced 105mm gun (US origin), range 11.5 km, firing rate 10 a minute.

View attachment 150782

That gun is located in a truck, VN is trying to place artillery on trucks in order to make them mobile (fire and change position right away in order to avoid the counter battery fire).

View attachment 150833

 

[Carlosa]

@Nihonjin1051

I've been trying to reply on the thread about the corpses, but the reply button doesn't show and I see at the end of the page a label that says that I don't have sufficient privileges to reply there. Its the first time I have this problem. Do you know what's going on? Can you reply on that thread?
Never mind, I just noticed that the thread has a label that says:
Thread Status: Not open for further replies.

I guess we got into heavy stuff. Sorry about your grandpa by the way.

 

[Viet]

Your dream may come true. Well you can't get free Aegis, but if you lobby John McCain enough, he may consider transferring this OHP class frigate for free.

They have already offered to transfer, by grant, 2 each to Thailand and Mexico. They only need to pay for the refurbishment and transfer cost (~$30-40 million).

Would that satisfy your fantasy?

Even if the US charges the full price, it would still only be $120 million each including refurbishment.

$40m for a 4,100 t frigate sounds ok and reasonable to me. how to convince John McCain?
I suggest Vietnam offers more port visits to the US navy. at present, we limit the visit one per year. that is rediculous.

 

[Carlosa]

$40m for a 4,100 t frigate sounds ok and reasonable to me. how to convince John McCain?
I suggest Vietnam offers more port visits to the US navy. at present, we limit the visit one per year. that is rediculous.

At that price can buy by the dozen.

 

[Carlosa]

$40m for a 4,100 t frigate sounds ok and reasonable to me. how to convince John McCain?
I suggest Vietnam offers more port visits to the US navy. at present, we limit the visit one per year. that is rediculous.

Agree, and US has been asking for more port visits.

 

[Carlosa]

Your dream may come true. Well you can't get free Aegis, but if you lobby John McCain enough, he may consider transferring this OHP class frigate for free.

They have already offered to transfer, by grant, 2 each to Thailand and Mexico. They only need to pay for the refurbishment and transfer cost (~$30-40 million).

Would that satisfy your fantasy?
.

No, only an AEGIS can satisfy Viet's fantasy, that's why he wants a naval shield against ballistic missiles, because those are AEGIS ships.

See @Viet we already know you.

 

[Viet]

Not really, ballistic missiles come from the top and a land based system is what Vietnam needs. For a country like Japan is the other way around, the navy makes a shield against missiles coming from the direction of China (still coming from the top, but from china's direction), but for Vietnam, where the missiles will come from the chinese mainland (from the second artillery corps), a naval shield would be totally unnecessary and most inefficient at the same time. The ships would also be more vulnerable. @Nihonjin1051 What do you think?

S-300 / 400 can intercept a lot of missiles actually, but their capability to intercept is determined by how many fire control radars the battery has and by how many TEL's with interceptor missiles. Its up to Vietnam to buy enough of those 2 to intercept as many as VN wants.

bro, I think of assaults in the form of balistic and cruise missiles coming from the south china sea, from chinese subs and destroyers.
and how to capture them mid course at an early stage.

 

[Viet]

Agree, and US has been asking for more port visits.

yes, that is what the US navy wants: regular access to Cam Ranh bay or other ports. they want to observe chinese activities in the south china sea, especially to keep an eye on chinese nuclear subs. the nuclear powered subs pose a serious threat to America security.

 

[William Hung]

$40m for a 4,100 t frigate sounds ok and reasonable to me. how to convince John McCain?
I suggest Vietnam offers more port visits to the US navy. at present, we limit the visit one per year. that is rediculous.

How to convince McCain? send some money to me and I'll come up with a plan to convince him.

Keep in mind those OHP class frigates only runs on gas turbine engines. But oil price has gone down anyway.

No, only an AEGIS can satisfy Viet's fantasy, that's why he wants a naval shield against ballistic missiles, because those are AEGIS ships.

See @Viet we already know you.

What do you think of those Russian Scorpion and Katran missile boats? do you think the analyst is right in predicting that VN is likely one of the customer?

I'm not a fan of those tiny boats. And they probably cost more than $40 million.

Better to buy that OHP class frigate with 64 Barak-1 or Barak-8.

 

[Carlosa]

bro, I think of assaults in the form of balistic and cruise missiles coming from the south china sea, from chinese subs and destroyers.
and how to capture them mid course at an early stage.

Well, that would be different, but that would not be ballistic missiles, China only have ballistic missiles at sea in subs, but those are nuclear missiles. Attacks with conventional ballistic missiles could only come from the mainland.

From the sea, it could only be cruise missiles, but frankly, that's unlikely to work, those AEGIS ships in the middle of the ocean would be great easy targets for chinese stand off missiles and submarines. The chinese would first take out the ships, and then attack the mainland.

Also, it would not make sense cost wise. One AEGIS destroyer is 2 billion, one S-300 battery is $200 million, S-400 I think is 300 or 400 million, so you can have many batteries for the price of one ship and those land batteries are much more easier to defend than the ships.

Another reason that can also makes that approach unlikely is that Chinese ships only have cruise missiles with a range of no more than 300-400 km. I don't think they will use that approach very often because those ships would be vulnerable to the Viet air force (It would be ok from subs, but if that way, they can do it very near the coast, so the defense has to be in land).

The long range cruise missile attacks would come from H-6K bombers and from land. Those H-6K bombers could operate in the South china sea, that would be a reasonable option for them, but still, its better to have the defenses on land, because of the reasons earlier.

He he, sorry, no AEGIS ships just yet. But you can have some nice Amur 950 subs.

 

[Carlosa]

How to convince McCain? send some money to me and I'll come up with a plan to convince him.

Keep in mind those OHP class frigates only runs on gas turbine engines. But oil price has gone down anyway.



What do you think of those Russian Scorpion and Katran missile boats? do you think the analyst is right in predicting that VN is likely one of the customer?

I'm not a fan of those tiny boats. And they probably cost more than $40 million.

Better to buy that OHP class frigate with 64 Barak-1 or Barak-8.

As I understand, VN is developing a domestic ship, larger and better than the Molniya, that's why they are keeping the Molniya numbers at just 8.

Yes, those boats are a bit too small.