Vietnam Defence Forum
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Carlosa
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Absolutely correct. Expensive ships, no matter how important they seem to be, they will just be easy targets for the chinese. VN can't afford to waste resources like that.
According to the operational doctrine of the Vietnamese Navy, their priorities when it comes to ships are as follows:
1) Submarines: They are the most survivable ships, difficult to detect and can interdict Chinese warships as well as merchant shipping in the South China Sea.
2) Small, fast and very manoeuvrable ships for hit and run attacks. Molniya class ships fit this criteria.
3) ASW ships of a corvette / light frigate size. Gepard / Sigma class ships with ASW package fit this criteria.
According to the operational doctrine of the Vietnamese Navy, their priorities when it comes to ships are as follows:
1) Submarines: They are the most survivable ships, difficult to detect and can interdict Chinese warships as well as merchant shipping in the South China Sea.
2) Small, fast and very manoeuvrable ships for hit and run attacks. Molniya class ships fit this criteria.
3) ASW ships of a corvette / light frigate size. Gepard / Sigma class ships with ASW package fit this criteria.
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Soryu
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you're buddy from MP forum, right !?
Are you Vietnamese or Spanish !?
Carlosa
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Yes, its me. I'm Spanish living in Vietnam.
I've been following this thread for quite some time and I finally joined.
I've been following this thread for quite some time and I finally joined.
ViXuyen
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Viet
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everything can change, so does the doctrine to deal with the enemies.
In my opinion, Vietnam navy needs bigger warships (destroyers) and more modern subs (AIP). Further the airforce needs more squadrons of advanced fighter jets. At but not least sending more spy sattelites in space as we need pictures from the region.
nice, that is the bird
welcome to the forum
are you working or studying in VN?
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Carlosa
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Thank you guys, its good to be here and participate in the discussions. Not working or studying in Vietnam at the moment. Just living here with the Vietnamese wife and kid in beautiful Danang. My work is business related and is not done in Vietnam at the moment but I'm planning to start to do it here in the near future.
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It would certainly be nice for Vietnam to have bigger ships and an actual "blue water" navy, but the issues with that is that Vietnam does not have the resources for that at the moment and anyway, those ships would be very vulnerable to chinese stand off weapons (they have plenty of them).
In the duel between the missile and the ship, the missile is the winner (at least until ships can deploy high power lasers). Any ship, no matter how strong (Aegis air defense destroyers included) can be easily overwhelmed by saturation missile attacks, that's why american aircraft carries don't plan to operate near the chinese coastline anymore. A sophisticated fleet such the US Navy has, can operate their ships weapon systems together as a network (a large air defense Aegis network for the whole task force), that improves their chances, but we are talking the US Navy, Vietnam is not able to do anything like that anytime soon, the money is not there.
Vietnam follows the strategy of "Anti access / Area denial" (same as the chinese strategy against the US).
That means to deny a chinese fleet the ability to operate close to the Vietnamese coastline and islands or to make it very risky to do so because of the combined effect of anti ship coastal missile batteries (Yakhon and Bal-E), the Vietnamese air force, Vietnamese submarines and small, fast ships doing hit and run attacks that operate from Vietnamese bases in the mainland.
For antisubmarine warfare (ASW) in order to keep the Vietnamese littoral waters clear of chinese submarines as well as to protect the Vietnamese naval bases from enemy submarines, VN will operate corvette / frigate size ships that have a ASW package (none at the moment, this is a big issue until the second batch of the Gepard ships come) and also in the future it will rely on aircraft for maritime patrol and ASW warfare such as the P-3C Orion, etc and ASW helicopters operating directly from the mainland.
There are many gaps at the moment because of insufficient money that need to be covered before VN can think about destroyers.
That's all that Vietnam can do at the moment, any more than that is not realistic at the moment and the Vietnamese budget can't support it anyway. Have to go in steps.
AIP submarines are nice (and much more expensive), maybe it will be ok in the future, but lets not get distracted now, need to be realistic. AIP is only useful for extra range while submerged, that's important for Australia (they are far), but not for Vietnam, VN will operate the kilos not far from the Vietnamese coast for the most part, AIP is not important for Vietnam. Maybe in the future VN will be able to develop small littoral AIP subs based on that domestic design that is being tested now, but that will take time. Full size AIP subs are a very big project, VN is not able to do something like that any time soon, they have to be bought and they are not cheap (Soryu Japanese AIP subs are $600-700 million, double the price of a Kilo).
Actually, what Vietnam really needs are the French SMX-26 submarines, small 40 meter, 1000 ton sub designed to operate in shallow waters with a lot of unusual capabilities such as missile air defense, etc. They are the perfect complement to the Kilos and they are half the price of a Kilo. I don't know what VN is waiting to order those, its really a non brainer. Google "SMX-26 submarines" and you'll see what I mean.
--------------
It would certainly be nice for Vietnam to have bigger ships and an actual "blue water" navy, but the issues with that is that Vietnam does not have the resources for that at the moment and anyway, those ships would be very vulnerable to chinese stand off weapons (they have plenty of them).
In the duel between the missile and the ship, the missile is the winner (at least until ships can deploy high power lasers). Any ship, no matter how strong (Aegis air defense destroyers included) can be easily overwhelmed by saturation missile attacks, that's why american aircraft carries don't plan to operate near the chinese coastline anymore. A sophisticated fleet such the US Navy has, can operate their ships weapon systems together as a network (a large air defense Aegis network for the whole task force), that improves their chances, but we are talking the US Navy, Vietnam is not able to do anything like that anytime soon, the money is not there.
Vietnam follows the strategy of "Anti access / Area denial" (same as the chinese strategy against the US).
That means to deny a chinese fleet the ability to operate close to the Vietnamese coastline and islands or to make it very risky to do so because of the combined effect of anti ship coastal missile batteries (Yakhon and Bal-E), the Vietnamese air force, Vietnamese submarines and small, fast ships doing hit and run attacks that operate from Vietnamese bases in the mainland.
For antisubmarine warfare (ASW) in order to keep the Vietnamese littoral waters clear of chinese submarines as well as to protect the Vietnamese naval bases from enemy submarines, VN will operate corvette / frigate size ships that have a ASW package (none at the moment, this is a big issue until the second batch of the Gepard ships come) and also in the future it will rely on aircraft for maritime patrol and ASW warfare such as the P-3C Orion, etc and ASW helicopters operating directly from the mainland.
There are many gaps at the moment because of insufficient money that need to be covered before VN can think about destroyers.
That's all that Vietnam can do at the moment, any more than that is not realistic at the moment and the Vietnamese budget can't support it anyway. Have to go in steps.
AIP submarines are nice (and much more expensive), maybe it will be ok in the future, but lets not get distracted now, need to be realistic. AIP is only useful for extra range while submerged, that's important for Australia (they are far), but not for Vietnam, VN will operate the kilos not far from the Vietnamese coast for the most part, AIP is not important for Vietnam. Maybe in the future VN will be able to develop small littoral AIP subs based on that domestic design that is being tested now, but that will take time. Full size AIP subs are a very big project, VN is not able to do something like that any time soon, they have to be bought and they are not cheap (Soryu Japanese AIP subs are $600-700 million, double the price of a Kilo).
Actually, what Vietnam really needs are the French SMX-26 submarines, small 40 meter, 1000 ton sub designed to operate in shallow waters with a lot of unusual capabilities such as missile air defense, etc. They are the perfect complement to the Kilos and they are half the price of a Kilo. I don't know what VN is waiting to order those, its really a non brainer. Google "SMX-26 submarines" and you'll see what I mean.
everything can change, so does the doctrine to deal with the enemies.
In my opinion, Vietnam navy needs bigger warships (destroyers) and more modern subs (AIP). Further the airforce needs more squadrons of advanced fighter jets. At but not least sending more spy sattelites in space as we need pictures from the region.
nice, that is the bird
welcome to the forum
are you working or studying in VN?
Last edited:
ViXuyen
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To Spanish guy, you need to stop ruining this thread and turning it into another chit chat discussion thing like do you with the thread on MP. Stick to the present and post only current Viet military hardware photos or official military news. And please do not post rumour/news from some blog/facebook/forums or some guy masquerading as a Viet general on the internet.
Carlosa
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Wow, thank you for the welcome, I didn't know that you are the boss here and the one that decides what is ok to post or not, who appointed you to that role?
I believe the name of this thread is Vietnam military news and discussion, isn't it? But it seems that you are not interested in discussion. I see everybody else doing discussion here, so what is your problem?
Its news to me that I ruined the MP thread with my chit chat as you call it, you are the first one that mentions something like that and somehow I get the feeling that you are the one that is off. A forum is not about one person and his ideas, you know? A forum is about diversity of opinions and points of views, I'm not sure you understand that.
You said to stick to the present, I failed to see where I'm not sticking to the present, care to explain in more detail?
I make my own mind, my own opinions and my own analysis about the Vietnamese military balance with China and I spend a lot of time researching things in order to come up with my conclusions and I use input from many sources and I'm not particularly linked or associated to any of them.
It seems that you have issues with someone in Facebook, etc, well, that's your problem, not mine and I'm not interested in getting involved in your issues with them. I have no idea who that internet general that you mentioned is.
Obviously, you don't like my opinions and that's fine, I respect your opinion and if you don't like or agree to something that I post, then feel free to post your opinion or comment, but don't try to set rules for me or censor what I have to say, ok? That being said, If a lot of other people here feel like you and they express that, then I'll be happy to go if I'm not welcome here.
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Soryu
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Who's girl in your avatar !?
athlon
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MineWho's girl in your avatar !?
ViXuyen
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Soryu
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Viet
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Pls continue contributing with your assessments.
Personally I appreciate your posts, regardless of I agree or disagree with your points. Different opinions are welcome and allowed.
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