Vietnam Defence Forum

[BoQ77]

These Lego-like bricks shot down some dozen of Stratofortress B52 during 12 days and nights of Linebackers 2 operation.

 

[Viet]

Great news for the Navy:

Damen Shipyard in Vietnam won a contract to construct a 90 m, 2,400-ton aviation training ship for the Australian Navy. That means we are soon be capable to build Dutch corvettes, frigates and destroyers for your needs

Australia puts AWD programme on projects of concern list - IHS Jane's 360

IHS Jane's has learned that a contract is expected to be placed shortly for a 90 m, 2,400-ton aviation training ship for the RAN that will be built by Damen Shipyards in Vietnam. A senior Department of Defence source said the decision to have the ship constructed in Vietnam was based on schedule and cost.

 

[Viet]

Industry
Canada, Vietnam to expand defence industrial ties
Jon Grevatt, Bangkok - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
05 June 2014


Canada and Vietnam have pledged to expand defence industrial ties during meetings held in Hanoi between officials from the defence ministries of both countries.

A statement by the Vietnamese government on 5 June said it was seeking to establish a "future partnership" with Canada in the defence industry as part of an expanded bilateral relationship between the two countries. Both sides also highlighted potential for closer co-operation in search and rescue operations and military training exercises.

The meetings in Hanoi were led by Vietnam's Deputy Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh and visiting Rear Admiral Gilles Couturier, director general of the Canadian Defence Ministry's international security policy.

 

[Soryu]

Toward the East Sea

 

[Viet]

Sea Platforms
Vietnam navy receives third TT400TP patrol vessel
Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
01 June 2014

The People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy took delivery of its third and final TT400TP-class patrol vessel on 28 May.

A TT400TP-class vessel similar to the recently commissioned HQ 274. (Tuoi Tre News, Vietnam)

The boat (pennant number HQ 274) was ordered from Hong Ha Shipbuilding Company in Hai Phong.

According to Vietnamese state media, each TT400TP is armed with two 14.5 mm air-defence guns, one AK-176 76 mm automatic cannon, and one radar-guided, six-barrelled 30 mm AK-630 close-in weapon system (CIWS) turret, which can fire 3,000 rds/min up to a maximum effective range of 2 km.

The 420-tonne boats can carry 35 crew and have a top speed of 32 kt and a range of 2500 n miles.

 

[Viet]

England´s most advanced destroyer HMS Daring (D32) visited Đà Nẵng last december.
Each unit costs 1.68 billion USD.

There are voices that we need a fleet of such sophisticated warships for air defence in the medium term.

 

[vtnsx]

England´s most advanced destroyer HMS Daring (D32) visited Đà Nẵng last december.
Each unit costs 1.68 billion USD.

There are voices that we need a fleet of such sophisticated warships for air defence in the medium term.

If this was made in Vietnam with the same technology in place, it could costs Vietnamese government $200 million each.

 

[mike2000]

Well done Vietnam, im impressed by your defence purchases/equipments. I think Vietnams military/navy is among the top in ASEAN. But as someone here said, its true it will also be good if vietnam can invest more on science, Engineering,Manufacturing Machinery, computers, rocketry, communications education. This is the only way it will enable Vietnam to indegenise its defence needs and produce almost all these weapons which is currently mostly import/produce under license from Russia/west. So hope vietnam can invest more in education in these areas i mentioned.
Overall i think Vietnam is well equiped militarily for its size. Compared to the Phillipines, Vietnam at least can produce some patrol ships, corvetes, and military vessels, and hopefully it will be able to produce Sophisticated Frigates in future(investment in science/engineering education will be critical for this to happen). th Philippines by contrast cant produce even a patrol vessel independently, and has to rely on 1940s and 50s U.S patrol vessels(which she still find difficult to afford, relying on gift instead.). I think the philippines can learn alot from Vietnam, Their navy/military is a real Joke. Sometimes it seems being almost a colony of the U,.S has make the philipines governement to neglect its own defence needs. Relying on freebies from other powers. Vietnam can help teach the Phillippines alot about self reliance.Looking at their military, I find it hard to believe Philippine has a larger economy than Vietnam.
Great Going Vietnam keep it up, im impressed. Looking forward to visit Vietnam hopefully soon.

 

[Viet]

If this was made in Vietnam with the same technology in place, it could costs Vietnamese government $200 million each.

well, $200m a ship is not realistic, even when we could produce everything under foreign licenses.
More realistic is if we would produce a part and import the other part (like we build the Molyina corvettes), then we could save 50 per cent of the cost.

Assuming we could do with $800m a ship (instead of $1.68b). a squadron of 4 ships would cost $3.2b.

Considering the massive aerial threats from chinese warships and fighter jets today and in the future, in few years we would need these destroyers for air defence.

 

[Soryu]

Well done Vietnam, im impressed by your defence purchases/equipments. I think Vietnams military/navy is among the top in ASEAN. But as someone here said, its true it will also be good if vietnam can invest more on science, Engineering,Manufacturing Machinery, computers, rocketry, communications education. This is the only way it will enable Vietnam to indegenise its defence needs and produce almost all these weapons which is currently mostly import/produce under license from Russia/west. So hope vietnam can invest more in education in these areas i mentioned.
Overall i think Vietnam is well equiped militarily for its size. Compared to the Phillipines, Vietnam at least can produce some patrol ships, corvetes, and military vessels, and hopefully it will be able to produce Sophisticated Frigates in future(investment in science/engineering education will be critical for this to happen). th Philippines by contrast cant produce even a patrol vessel independently, and has to rely on 1940s and 50s U.S patrol vessels(which she still find difficult to afford, relying on gift instead.). I think the philippines can learn alot from Vietnam, Their navy/military is a real Joke. Sometimes it seems being almost a colony of the U,.S has make the philipines governement to neglect its own defence needs. Relying on freebies from other powers. Vietnam can help teach the Phillippines alot about self reliance.Looking at their military, I find it hard to believe Philippine has a larger economy than Vietnam.
Great Going Vietnam keep it up, im impressed. Looking forward to visit Vietnam hopefully soon.

Philippines is not bad like that, I heard that they produced some small patrol boat, transport ship, military vehicle ...

Vietnamese step out from many great wars and stand right beside the Giant China for very long time ago, so we have more clever long term policy and made many effort on defense issues.
Philippine by contrast, depended so much on the Treaty with USA, and ...

Considering the massive aerial threats from chinese warships and fighter jets today and in the future, in few years we would need these destroyers for air defence.

VPA 's still bet on Su-30MK2V and Kilo 636.1 until 2025 or at least 2020, I think.

We need large vessel for coast guard and FSR, and for fishermen, right now.

 

[mike2000]

Philippines is not bad like that, I heard that they produced some small patrol boat, transport ship, military vehicle ...

Vietnamese step out from many great wars and stand right beside the Giant China for very long time ago, so we have more clever long term policy and made many effort on defense issues.
Philippine by contrast, depended so much on the Treaty with USA, and ...


VPA 's still bet on Su-30MK2V and Kilo 636.1 until 2025 or at least 2020, I think.

We need large vessel for coast guard and FSR, and for fishermen, right now.

well you are right, i agree its mainly because Vietnam is next to a Giant like China, and had to fight long wars to gain their independence from China for a 100years under which China colonised Vietnam, coupled with the vietnam war and 1979 china invasion.
I do admire Vietnams courage,determination and effort to be self reliant. this is how countries should behave, not relying on freebies(since nothing comes free in politics). I still find it hard to believe Philippine has a larger GDP than Vietnam yet they are so lacking in defence spending/equipment. Even Myanmar and bengladesh(whi boith have a smaller GDP than philippines) have a better military/Navy than they do. I just dont understand how. Seems as you said its mainly because the Philippines relies(is almost a colony) on the U.S. This is a bad policy the philipine has adopted i think. They should welcome the U.S but at the same time they too should should strive and produce their own weapons/improve their defence themselves before totally relying on the U.S . Just like south Korea, who though relies on the U.S has a very robust/credible national defence industry. Since there will come a time when even the U.S wont be willing/able to afford to come to their rescue(despite being the master), in this case they will have to rely on themselves. recent example of China seizing Scarborough and second thomas shoal is a good example, the U.S didi nothing, same with north korea sinking of seouls ship, the U.S didi basiclly nothing.
So i think its good Vietnam is localizing its defence equipments. Since it will have to rely on itself first(No ASEAN country will come to their rescue since they have their own personal interests to protect with China).
However, it will be good for Vietnam to also increase it strategic relationship with the U.S and form some kind of alliance. This will make it carry more weight in its negotiation with China. It shouldnt rely on Russia for obvious reasons.
But overall, i do think it will be good for Vietnam to prioritize negotiations with China on this issue(SCS), this will be the best long term solution, since Vietnam will never be able to defeat China in a Naval confrontation and in decade or so from now, China will simply be too big economically/militarily that it will be hard even for the U.S to even offer verbal support. So think Vietnam should play it wise and avoid emotion in pursuing its interests, while also avoiding to overspend on it military and not ignore its other national economic issues(recent Asian games fiasco wasnt a good example/image).
GOOD LUCK TO VIETNAM, i admire your country alot, small yet so tough.

 

[Soryu]

well you are right, i agree its mainly because Vietnam is next to a Giant like China, and had to fight long wars to gain their independence from China for a 100years under which China colonised Vietnam, coupled with the vietnam war and 1979 china invasion.
I do admire Vietnams courage,determination and effort to be self reliant. this is how countries should behave, not relying on freebies(since nothing comes free in politics). I still find it hard to believe Philippine has a larger GDP than Vietnam yet they are so lacking in defence spending/equipment. Even Myanmar and bengladesh(whi boith have a smaller GDP than philippines) have a better military/Navy than they do. I just dont understand how. Seems as you said its mainly because the Philippines relies(is almost a colony) on the U.S. This is a bad policy the philipine has adopted i think. They should welcome the U.S but at the same time they too should should strive and produce their own weapons/improve their defence themselves before totally relying on the U.S . Just like south Korea, who though relies on the U.S has a very robust/credible national defence industry. Since there will come a time when even the U.S wont be willing/able to afford to come to their rescue(despite being the master), in this case they will have to rely on themselves. recent example of China seizing Scarborough and second thomas shoal is a good example, the U.S didi nothing, same with north korea sinking of seouls ship, the U.S didi basiclly nothing.
So i think its good Vietnam is localizing its defence equipments. Since it will have to rely on itself first(No ASEAN country will come to their rescue since they have their own personal interests to protect with China).
However, it will be good for Vietnam to also increase it strategic relationship with the U.S and form some kind of alliance. This will make it carry more weight in its negotiation with China. It shouldnt rely on Russia for obvious reasons.
But overall, i do think it will be good for Vietnam to prioritize negotiations with China on this issue(SCS), this will be the best long term solution, since Vietnam will never be able to defeat China in a Naval confrontation and in decade or so from now, China will simply be too big economically/militarily that it will be hard even for the U.S to even offer verbal support. So think Vietnam should play it wise and avoid emotion in pursuing its interests, while also avoiding to overspend on it military and not ignore its other national economic issues(recent Asian games fiasco wasnt a good example/image).
GOOD LUCK TO VIETNAM, i admire your country alot, small yet so tough.

Thanks for your good words about Vietnam, buddy. Hope you have a great trip if you visit Vietnam

We know it'll be wise and good thing for us solve SCS issues by peaceful solutions, that's said always by Vietnamese Government if you read the news.
But China and her desires 're went far beyond that way, they want take all SCS, push US forces back out west of Pacific, break the first chain island, they want more power and become hegemony like US.
No peace if China keep their way to bully small nation. So Vietnam need US as a counter-balance power in region and people who love peace on the world support for us. That will made China take their seat on negotiation table.

P/S: for Philippines case, I think they come with their mind about defense issue a little too late.

Defense issues in modern world will take country like Philippines so many years from now, so they need speed up more.
They will need many resources, not only money, but infrastructure, rebuild their base, building new military doctrine, training people and new weapons ... all take many time to prepare those things.

South Korea is difference case, they have to face with their North brother after WW2, and they got the lesson from Vietnam War: US can abandon her ally if they're not value anymore ...

 

[mike2000]

Thanks for your good words about Vietnam, buddy. Hope you have a great trip if you visit Vietnam

We know it'll be wise and good thing for us solve SCS issues by peaceful solutions, that's said always by Vietnamese Government if you read the news.
But China and her desires 're went far beyond that way, they want take all SCS, push US forces back out west of Pacific, break the first chain island, they want more power and become hegemony like US.
No peace if China keep their way to bully small nation. So Vietnam need US as a counter-balance power in region and people who love peace on the world support for us. That will made China take their seat on negotiation table.

P/S: for Philippines case, I think they come with their mind about defense issue a little too late.

Defense issues in modern world will take country like Philippines so many years from now, so they need speed up more.
They will need many resources, not only money, but infrastructure, rebuild their base, building new military doctrine, training people and new weapons ... all take many time to prepare those things.

South Korea is difference case, they have to face with their North brother after WW2, and they got the lesson from Vietnam War: US can abandon her ally if they're not value anymore ...

well, yes its true, China main rival/target is the U.S, since it wants to chase the U.S out of the west pacific. However in doing so without consulting its neighbours in its intentions, it creates more issues for itself and the region. The best solution will be to share the regions disputed islands among all the different parties and gove free access to all the parties involve in the spratly islands.However, Its a disputed region/islands, so its hard to say China is bullying or anything, since even Taiwan(ROC) has decided to upgrade/build miliatry facilities on the largest Island it controls on the SCS(China hasnt objected or say anything about this for obvious reasons: ROC), sam with philippines shouting/killing taiwanese fisherman in this disputed region a while ago(which caused Taiwan to even imposed sanctions on it). So the region is kind of sadled with disputes among many different countries, Malaysia, philippines, PRC, ROC, Indonesia, Brunei, Vietnam etc all have overlaping claims. SO i think it will be better if these ASEAN countries can solve the overlapping claims among themselves first before taking on China. That way it will be easier for them to takle the dispute with China.
Until they do this, each country will be trying to seek only their own interests in the disputes and there will never be a united front.

Yes i agree Philippines need a new military doctrine. however i dont think they will adopt that, instead they are used to relying on the patron/master U.S, so they dont really care about beffing up their own defence neeeds themselves, coupled with corruption in the army, makes it difficult for them to even start.

As for south Korea , yes its true they have the north to focus on and beef up their defence accordingly, howver you should also know that its not just the north seoul is watching carefuly, they also have island dispute/historical issues with Japan which they view as an ennemy/threat even more than the north. I have been to seoul, and was surprised to see how anti japanese they were, they seem to hate Japan even more than China hates Japan, which shocked me. On a side note, Japan does have an unfavorable view of both south Korea and China ahs well. Asia sure is a complex region to understand. i dont envy the U.S managing this region/maintaing stability there, it aint easy..

 

[vtnsx]

well, $200m a ship is not realistic, even when we could produce everything under foreign licenses.
More realistic is if we would produce a part and import the other part (like we build the Molyina corvettes), then we could save 50 per cent of the cost.

Assuming we could do with $800m a ship (instead of $1.68b). a squadron of 4 ships would cost $3.2b.

Considering the massive aerial threats from chinese warships and fighter jets today and in the future, in few years we would need these destroyers for air defence.

With cheap labor it is possible. With $1.68 billion is calculated through European standard of living.

 

[ViXuyen]

Air defence destroyer is just a fancy name for "mobile SAM system on the ocean surface". Ground-based SAM can fire and hide but ship-borned SAM has no where to hide in the middle of the ocean. Air defence destroyer will be a magnet for standoff range Antiship missiles launched from jets or submarines.

Viet Nam will not have one single ship that cost $1.7 billion usd; that's goes against our military doctrine of "hoả khí phân tán, hoả lực tập trung". We will not put most of our eggs in one basket like that. If we really want to build up our air defence in the middle of the ocean, we would buy 6 Gremyashchy Class Corvettes instead. 6 of those ships have a combined fire power of 48 antiship missiles and 96 long-ranged SAMs vs type 45 with only 8 antiship missiles and 48 long-ranged SAMs. Another option of building up our air defence in the middle of the ocean is with $1.7 billion, we might as well put 10 system of the S-300PMU2 on our largest Spratly islands (or our coast). 10 systems of S-300PMU2 have a fire power of 300 SAMs ready to be fired.

With that being said, I don't think Viet Nam is going to build up our ship-borned air defence anytime soon. The reason is that the distance from our coast to the Paracels or Spratlys is 400 km and 600 km respectively. Our air defence will be our air force. $1.7 billion for a single ship can be spent on 34 Flankers. Jets are mucher faster than ship. Jets can launch standoff ranged antiship missiles like the Kh-35UE that we're working on or the Kh-59MK at enemies' ships and get the hell out of danger. 34 Flankers can launch a combine 136 antiship missiles. OTOH, ship is a sitting duck, it won't out run a jet or missile to get out of danger.

No need to feel anxious and try to keep up with the Wangs the wrong way