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Vietnam Defence Forum

Let USA operate Thaad and you operate
s-400.
I agree :tup:

We need security, don't want our business to be disturbed by unwanted guests. We need oil. A lot of oil. It is better we suck in the South China Sea than import the expensive stuff from Middle East. This guy below can laugh. Roongrote Rangsiyopash, President and CEO of SCG. His company receives the goahead for Vietnam first $5.4 billion Petrochemical Complex "Long Son Petrochem (LSP)". The construction starts soon and will be complete in 4.5 years.

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yes PLAN is so useless VN immediately OBEYED
Just temporally halt to get more support and make sure that US-JP will not protect CN again. We just dont wanna see CN leader like Deng rush to USA and beg for help like in 1979 .
 
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Leave the Chinese with their wet dream. After getting owned by the UK and the Japanese so severly, they are trying hard to relive their Ancient Time when they thought they were kings. They even willing to go after every scraps of news or sights then "try to feel good" :cheesy::cheesy::cheesy: Throw that guy back into WW2 Pacific Front and we will see how many balls he has with all the obidience and shiet :rofl:

To return to the thread, a review of the Navy arsenal and equipment

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Torpedoes for Kilo and Petya

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Kh-35 for Gepard and Molniya

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RBU 6000 anti submarine rocket for Petya

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Ak-230 for the old Osa class which is now more like a patrol vessel

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And this.............Actually i dont know what it is though. Some kind of bombs ?

Not AK-230 + OSA class
AK-726 57mm + hydrofoil torpedo boat Turya class - project 206M Storm
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in this photo
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Systems used on the minesweeper
 
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Just temporally halt to get more support and make sure that US-JP will not protect CN again. We just dont wanna see CN leader like Deng rush to USA and beg for help like in 1979 .
Actually they sold their dignity for some dollars last time to US/JP as you said it, there is nothing more to sell. Oh except this one: PLA girl cheerleader for the Russians. Sweet but shameless.

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It is your brain that needs a checkup. You are the one who repeats the shit over and over again with historic sovereignty. I am pretty sure modern medicine today can cure it. Let me know if you need to find a good doctor.

I don't think there's a cure for mentally retarded people. Suicide is the only cure.

our little biatch simply obeyed, that's good enough

You are weak.
 
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our little biatch simply obeyed, that's good enough
Not only did your little biatch obeyed. It also cried why the us sugar dad didn't complain.

Now that's what I call shameless without equal. :D
All reports base on BBC citing Vietnam stopping activity but vessels from third party countries confirm the drilling ship stays put. Neither Vietnam nor China confirm the drilling has halted.

In short besides speculation and rumor no single evidence VN stops drilling.
 
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53 years ago: the sinking of US carrier USNS Card by Vietcong commandos

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Paul Richard Huard
July 23, 2017

It was shortly after midnight when two Viet Cong commandos emerged from a sewer tunnel that emptied into Saigon Port, each man carrying nearly 90 pounds of high explosives and the components needed to make two time bombs.

Their target was the largest American ship in port, USNS Card. An escort carrier that saw distinguished service as a submarine-hunter in the North Atlantic during World War II, during the early morning hours of May 2, 1964, Card was part of U.S. Military Sealift Command.

The ship supported an escalating military commitment of the South Vietnamese government that occurred well before the Tonkin Gulf Incident. Since 1961, Card had transported both fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters to the beleaguered nation as well as the U.S. pilots and support crews need to operate them.

The commandos swam toward Card, where they spent about an hour in the water attaching the charges just above the waterline near the bilge and the engine compartment on the ship’s starboard side. They set the timers and quickly swam away.

The charges exploded. Five civilian crewmen on board Card died, the explosion tore a huge hole in the engine-room compartment and a proud ship that had survived German U-boat attacks was on her way to the bottom — the last aircraft carrier in U.S. military history to date sunk by enemy action.

The sinking of the Card was stunning victory for the Viet Cong, yet little remembered today. It illustrated how vulnerable naval vessels can be even when faced with a low-tech enemy … and how difficult maintaining port security can be in a war with no real front.

But it also demonstrated how resilient American naval forces are. In 17 days, salvage crews raised Card out of nearly 50 feet of water, and six months later the ship returned to service for another six years.

Not surprisingly, North Vietnam celebrated the sinking of Card, considering it a propaganda victory of the first rank. The U.S. government refused to even acknowledge the vessel’s sinking, telling the public the carrier had only been damaged.

The North Vietnamese government even commemorated the event by portraying the operation on a 1964 postage stamp.

Naval vessels often have a mystique about them — they look formidable, bristle with weapons and aircraft, and have the ability to project a nation’s power anywhere on the planet. In particular, aircraft carriers are the symbol of a nation possessing “great power” status.

But they are vulnerable to attack. For example, there are reasons why even aircraft carriers have numerous escort vessels — destroyers, guided-missile cruisers, even submarines — to protect a carrier as well as engage the enemy.

We shouldn’t be too surprised when an enemy takes out a naval vessel in combat, even if it is a commando with a time bomb, James Holmes, a naval historian and analyst who teaches at the U.S. Naval War College, told War Is Boring.

“We shouldn’t get carried away with thinking of warships as ‘castles of steel,’ or latter-day dreadnoughts, or whatever,” Holmes said. “A castle is a fortification whose walls can take enormous punishment, whereas most modern warships have thin sides — the nuclear-powered carrier being an honorable exception. So a guy with a charge can do a lot of damage.”

Holmes said the sinking of Card “provided a preview” of the attack on the USS Cole in 2000 — a textbook case of a low-tech assault taking out a prime example of U.S. naval might.

Al Qaeda operatives mounted a suicide attack against Cole, a guided-missile destroyer, using a small boat packed with explosives that targeted the American ship while she was docked in Aden harbor. The blast tore a huge hole in the vessel, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 — the deadliest attack on a U.S. Navy ship in recent history.

The blast from the explosion reached Cole’s galley, killing and wounding many there as sailors were lining up for lunch. Investigators later said they did not consider the timing of the attack a coincidence.

Fifty years ago, penetrating harbor security was a major concern as well for the perpetrators of the attack on Card.

Lam Son Nao, 79, the leader of the Viet Cong commandos, was a maintenance worker at the port at the time of the attack. He used his job as cover while he gathered intelligence, hid explosives and planned the mission.

Despite patrol boats filled with harbor police, Nao and his companion were able to mount their operation because of careful planning and the corruption of Saigon law enforcement.

“For the Card mission, my fellow operative and I pretended to be fishermen,” Nao said in an April 22, 2015 interview with Vietnamese News Service. “When our boat reached Nha Rong Wharf, the police chased us to the bank of the Thu Thiem Peninsula. To avoid having my boat inspected, we pushed the boat to a swamp, so that the police boat could not reach it.”

Nao told the harbor police that he wanted to shop at a market on a nearby island, offering to share part of the clothing and radios he planned to buy there. Then, he gave the police a generous bribe — and they let Nao go his way.

The aftermath of the attack on the Card rallied American rescue and salvage crews to deal with a severe crisis. The American brass and Pres. Lyndon Johnson wanted to keep the results of the attack as quiet as possible.

However, raising Card would be a major salvage operation.

Five Navy divers investigated damage to Card. One said he found the remains of a U.S.-made demolitions pack — evidence that the Viet Cong might have used stolen American military munitions.

In the meantime, the Navy sent the salvage vessel USS Reclaimer and the tug USS Tawakoni to Saigon Port to begin pumping water out of the sunken vessel. Despite poor diving conditions and numerous equipment malfunctions, salvage crews raised Card in a little more than two weeks.

Soon, both Reclaimer and Tawakoni towed Card out of Saigon harbor on their way to the U.S. Navy port of Subic Bay in the Philippines for repairs.

Naval vessels are very flexible ships capable of recuperating from serious battle damage. Apparently, Card was no exception — ships are often “re-purposed” in the U.S. Navy and enjoy long lives in service, Holmes said.

“The carrier Midway went from being a World War II carrier to a modern supercarrier over the course of her life, which reached into the 1990s,” he said. “That philosophy — deliberately build ships to allow for easy changes and upgrades over a long life — is making a comeback.”

Even Cole survived her attackers. After 14 months of repair, Cole departed dry-dock on April 19, 2002, and returned to her homeport of Norfolk, Virginia.

The ship deployed again in 2003. Cole remains in operation with the Sixth Fleet. Card decommissioned in 1970.

This first appeared in WarIsBoring here.
 
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The Week Donald Trump Lost the South China Sea
Vietnam's capitulation shows China's neighbors fear the U.S. no longer has their backs

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/31/the-week-donald-trump-lost-the-south-china-sea/

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Vietnam’s history is full of heroic tales of resistance to China. But this month Hanoi bent the knee to Beijing, humiliated in a contest over who controls the South China Sea, the most disputed waterway in the world. Hanoi has been looking to Washington for implicit backing to see off Beijing’s threats. At the same time, the Trump administration demonstrated that it either does not understand or sufficiently care about the interests of its friends and potential partners in Southeast Asia to protect them against China. Southeast Asian governments will conclude that the United States does not have their backs. And while Washington eats itself over Russian spies and health care debates, one of the world’s most crucial regions is slipping into Beijing’s hands.

There’s no tenser set of waters in the world than the South China Sea. For the last few years, China and its neighbors have been bluffing, threatening, cajoling, and suing for control of its resources. In June, Vietnam made an assertive move. After two and a half years of delay, it finally granted Talisman Vietnam (a subsidiary of the Spanish energy firm Repsol) permission to drill for gas at the very edge of Hanoi’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the South China Sea.

Under mainstream interpretations of the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Vietnam was well within its rights to do so. Under China’s idiosyncratic interpretation, it was not. China has never even put forward a clear claim to that piece of seabed. On July 25, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang would only urge “the relevant party to cease the relevant unilateral infringing activities” — but without saying what they actually were. In the absence of official clarity, Chinese lawyers and official think tanks have suggested two main interpretations.

China may be claiming “historic rights” to this part of the sea on the grounds that it has always been part of the Chinese domain (something obviously contested by all the other South China Sea claimants, as well as neutral historians). Alternatively, it may be claiming that the Spratly Islands — the collection of islets, reefs, and rocks off the coasts of Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines — are entitled as a group to their own EEZ. An international arbitration tribunal in The Hague, however, ruled these claims incompatible with UNCLOS a year ago. China has refused to recognize both the tribunal and its ruling.

In mid-June, Talisman Vietnam set out to drill a deepwater “appraisal well” in Block 136-03 on what insiders believe is a billion-dollar gas field, only 50 miles from an existing Repsol operation. The Vietnamese government knew there was a risk that China might try to interfere and sent out coast guard ships and other apparently civilian vessels to protect the drillship.

At first, China’s intervention was relatively diplomatic. The vice chairman of the Central Military Commission, Gen. Fan Changlong, visited Hanoi on June 18 and demanded an end to the drilling. When Vietnam refused, he cancelled a joint meeting on border security (the 4th Border Defense Friendly Exchange) and went home.

Reports from Hanoi (which have been confirmed by similar reports, from different sources, to the Australia-based analyst Carlyle Thayer) say that, shortly afterward, the Vietnamese ambassador in Beijing was summoned to the Chinese Foreign Ministry and told, bluntly, that unless the drilling stopped and Vietnam promised never to drill in that part of the sea ever again, China would take military action against Vietnamese bases in the South China Sea.

This is a dramatic threat, but it is not unprecedented. While researching my book on the South China Sea, I was told by a former BP executive that China had made similar threats to that company when it was operating off the coast of Vietnam in early 2007. Fu Ying, then the Chinese ambassador in London, told BP’s CEO at the time, Tony Hayward, that she could not guarantee the safety of BP employees if the company did not abandon its operations in the South China Sea. BP immediately agreed and over the following months withdrew from its offshore Vietnam operations. I asked Fu about this at a dinner in Beijing in 2014, and she replied, “I did what I did because I have great respect for BP and did not want it to get into trouble.”

Vietnam occupies around 28 outposts in the Spratly Islands. Some are established on natural islands, but many are isolated blockhouses on remote reefs. According to Thayer, 15 are simply platforms on legs: more like place markers than military installations. They would be all but impossible to defend from a serious attack. China demonstrated this with attacks on Vietnamese positions in the Paracel Islands in 1974 and in a battle over Johnson South Reef in the Spratlys in 1988. Both incidents ended with casualties for Vietnam and territorial gains for China. There are rumors, entirely unconfirmed, that there was a shooting incident near one of these platforms in June. If true, this may have been a more serious warning from Beijing to Hanoi.

Meanwhile, the drillship Deepsea Metro I had found exactly what Repsol was looking for: a handsome discovery — mainly gas but with some oil. The company thought there could be more and kept on drilling. It hoped to reach the designated total depth of the well by the end of July.

Back in Hanoi, the Politburo met to discuss what to do. Low oil prices and declining production from the country’s existing offshore fields were hurting the government budget. The country needed cheap energy to fuel its economic growth and keep the Communist Party in power — but, at the same time, it was deeply dependent on trade with China.

It is all but impossible to know for sure how big decisions are made in Vietnam, but the version apparently told to Repsol was that the Politburo was deeply split. Of its 19 members, 17 favored calling China’s bluff. Only two disagreed, but they were the most influential figures at the table: the general secretary of the party, Nguyen Phu Trong, and Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich.

After two acrimonious meetings in mid-July, the decision was made: Vietnam would kowtow to Beijing and end the drilling. According to the same sources, the winning argument was that the Trump administration could not be relied upon to come to Hanoi’s assistance in the event of a confrontation with China. Reportedly, the mood was rueful. If Hillary Clinton had been sitting in the White House, Repsol executives were apparently told, she would have understood the stakes and everything would have been different.

The faith in Clinton isn’t surprising. Her interventions on behalf of the Southeast Asian claimant states, starting in Hanoi at the July 2010 meeting of the ASEAN Regional Forum, are well remembered in the region. The Barack Obama administration’s focus on the regional rules-based order was welcomed by governments fearful of domination by either the United States or China.

That said, some U.S. observers are skeptical that any other administration would have been more forthcoming. Bonnie Glaser, the director of the China Power Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, questions this apparent contrast: “What would the U.S. have done differently [under Obama]? I find it unlikely that the U.S. would militarily defend Vietnam against China. Vietnam isn’t an ally.”

Yet it wouldn’t have taken much: a statement or two about the rules-based order and the importance of abiding by UNCLOS, some coincidental naval exercises during the weeks of the drilling, perhaps even some gunnery practice in the region of Block 136-03 and a few quiet words between Washington and Beijing. “Forward-deployed diplomacy,” as it used to be called. The Obama administration warnedBeijing off the Scarborough Shoal in April 2016 this way. Has Donald Trump’s Washington forgotten the dark art of deterrence?

The implications of China’s victory are obvious. Regardless of international law, China is going to set the rules in the South China Sea. It is going to apply its own version of history, its own version of “shared” ownership, and it will dictate who can exploit which resources. If Vietnam, which has at least the beginnings of a credible naval deterrent, can be intimidated, then so can every other country in the region, not least the Philippines.

This month, Manila announced its intention to drill for the potentially huge gas field that lies under the Reed Bank in the South China Sea. The desire to exploit those reserves (before the country’s main gas field at Malampaya runs out in a few years’ time) was the main reason for the Philippines to initiate the arbitration proceedings in The Hague. The Philippines won a near total legal victory in that case, but since taking office just over a year ago, President Rodrigo Duterte has downplayed its importance. He appears to have been intimidated: preferring to appeal to China for financial aid rather than assert his country’s maritime claims.

In May, Duterte told an audience in Manila that Chinese President Xi Jinping had warned him there would be war if the Philippines tried to exploit the gas reserves that the Hague tribunal had ruled belonged to his country. Last week, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi was in the Philippine capital to discuss “joint development” of those energy resources.

Where Duterte and the Vietnamese leadership go, others will follow. Southeast Asian governments have reached one major conclusion from President Trump’s first six months: The United States is not prepared to put skin in the game. What is the point of all those freedom of navigation operations to maintain UNCLOS if, when push comes to shove, Washington does not support the countries that are on the receiving end of Chinese pressure?

Why has Washington been so inept? Secretary of State Rex Tillerson knows the stakes well. His former company ExxonMobil is also investigating a massive gas prospect in disputed waters. The “Blue Whale” field lies in Block 118, farther north and closer to Vietnam’s coast than Repsol’s discovery — but also contested by China. Like so much else, it’s a mystery whether this is a deliberate choice by the Trump White House not to get involved in the details of the disputes or if it is a reflection of the decimation of the State Department’s capabilities, with so many senior posts vacant and so many middle-ranking staff leaving.

The most worrying possibility would be that Tillerson failed to act out of the desire to see his former commercial rival, Repsol, fail so that his former employer, ExxonMobil, could obtain greater leverage in the Vietnamese energy market. But what government would ever trust Tillerson again?

Repsol is currently plugging its highly successful appraisal well with cement and preparing to sail away from a total investment of more than $300 million. Reports from the region say a Chinese seismic survey vessel, the HYSY760, protected by a small flotilla, is on its way to the same area to examine the prospects for itself. UNCLOS has been upended, and the rules-based order has been diminished. This wasn’t inevitable nor a fait accompli. If Hanoi thought Washington had its back, China could have been deterred — and the credibility of the United States in the region strengthened. Instead, Trump has left the region drifting in the direction of Beijing.

(Photo Credit: Keith Tsuji/Getty Images)
 
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Ok However that is far from over, rather the beginning than the end of the game. Japan Gas today has acquired 25 percent of a Vietnamese gas company, apparently wants to establish LNG facilities in Vietnam with gas supplied by the Philippines. Lets see wether the US risks a war for the sake of the Philippines in case of Chinese onslaughts. Or how Japan will go if the Chinese go against Japanese assets overseas.

http://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/tokyo-gas-buys-stake-vietnamese-city-gas-firm

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In cockpit of submarine hunter Airbus C295-MPA

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The airforce knows this bird as it operates C295-M transport aircraft.

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After unification, Vietnam inherited lots of Ex - ARVN equipment and firearms. While most of them are no longer around or currently sit in museums, AR-15/M-16 rifles are still in active reserve and maintain regularly. The number of them is estimaed to be enough to completely re equippped the VPA active servcie troops several times over which would be useful for a large scale mobolization.

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Reforms are needed for Vietnam’s military
Defence Notes
02nd August 2017 - 2:01 by Wendell Minnick in Taipei

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-notes/reforms-are-needed-vietnams-military/

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Vietnam must begin serious modernisation and structural reform if it wants to hold its own against China’s growing control of the South China Sea and, to investigate this matter further, Shephard canvassed an international cross-section of Vietnam specialists for recommendations.

To be fair, since 1975 Vietnam’s military has been in continuous modernisation, sources indicated, even if it has fallen short at times.

However, in the past ten years the military has fixed its attention on capacity building, redefining the character of strategic relationships, improving the manner in which the services define requirements and shape procurement plans, training and education, and the structure and function of various military enterprises.

The best example of success is Viettel, Vietnam’s largest mobile phone network operator, owned and operated by the Ministry of National Defence. Viettel has overcome tremendous obstacles to become a sophisticated telecommunications service on par with anything in the world.

Despite some success in the armed services, many believe further improvements are urgently needed. This is particularly so in the leadership structure, which Paul Giarra, president of the Washington-based Global Strategies and Transformation, called ‘totally unreconstructed.’

The 2016 selection of Ngo Xuan Lich as minister of national defence, ‘a political commissar with no command or operational experience…was a really uninspired choice for a military that is going through rapid modernisation,’ said Zachary Abuza, a specialist on Southeast Asia at the National War College in Washington DC.

The choice revealed a great deal about Vietnam’s insecurities, and the debate has led to suggestions inside Hanoi’s defence circles to make the military legally bound to the state and not the communist party.

Training and education from basic to high-level officers is also a priority. This includes sending more officers and flag officers to advanced countries for military courses, especially on combined operations, said Carlyle Thayer, a professor at the Australian Defence Force Academy.

Abuza said the ground forces still have good training, but a string of aircraft crashes in the past two years suggested that they simply do not have enough airframes or sufficient training time. This includes the navy, which has acquired more new capabilities than any other service, ‘but I am not convinced that they are training on them sufficiently,’ he said.

Thayer added that Vietnam should initiate a broad-based programme of bilateral and multilateral military exercises with foreign counterparts to test Vietnam’s combat capabilities in priority areas such as air defence and maritime security.

‘Develop a comprehensive whole-of-government national security and defence strategy to guide the development of service doctrines, strategies and tactics and interoperability of the services,’ Thayer advised.

Part of the training problem has to do with Russian procurements that often lack maintenance packages, and further maintenance costs are often not factored into Vietnam’s long-term defence budgeting plan, ‘especially the recent procurement of six Russian-built Kilo-class attack submarines,’ Abuza said.

Though Vietnam’s military modernisation is largely centred around its relationship with Russia, in the long run Vietnamese defence officials are increasingly concerned over two aspects of the relationship, said Collin Koh, a research fellow at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore.

First, Russia is not only supplying arms to Vietnam, but also to China. The Ukraine crisis and Western embargo only pushed Russia and China closer in the sphere of military-technical cooperation. At present, Russia remains the key arms supplier to Vietnam, and Hanoi is already getting uneasy over this, Koh said.

‘At least the ground and air forces are gradually shifting towards non-Russian sources, yet the military continues to rely more on Moscow for big-ticket items,’ he pointed out.

Second, Russia has proven also to be a ‘capricious arms dealer’. For example, it could only promise technology transfers to Vietnam for Gepard-class frigates if Vietnam purchased a minimum of six vessels. Yet at the same time, Vietnam has been unhappy with the pace of construction of the Gepards.

‘In the long run, Vietnam could do well to rely on two alternative pathways. First, non-Russian sources, especially Dutch, with whom Vietnam’s Ministry of National Defence has a close relationship via Damen. Second, indigenous, building on existing tech transfers implemented with Russia, but using that to expand its local shipbuilding capacity,’ Koh said.

Abuza agreed. Vietnam does a really good job about licencing and indigenous production, better than any other Southeast Asian state, and this has really helped them to drive down costs, he said.

Another weakness that needs fixed is command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR). Vietnam should enhance the revolution in military affairs by ensuring interoperability of air and naval platforms in terms of C4ISR through technology transfer, coproduction and a strong national defence industry, Thayer said.

Koh concurred, and noted that Vietnam has so far had problems augmenting its kinetic capabilities to a more robust maritime ISR capability, especially in the face of problems with China in the South China Sea. A broad-area maritime ISR represented by better maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft will be required in the long run, he said.

Six existing Canadian-built Viking DHC-6 Twin Otter amphibious planes are modern but short-legged and low on payload when it comes to covering the massive size of the South China Sea.

Koh recommended that Vietnam consider a variety of options, including refurbished US P-3C Orion aircraft or modified Airbus C-295 or CASA CN235 aircraft with an ISR package. ‘Ideally, the envisaged end result should be an integrated system comprising both manned and unmanned ISR systems, as well as remote-sensing, for better coverage of the South China Sea,’ he said.

The military seems to be without a real doctrine right now, Abuza said. ‘They certainly have none for their navy and air force, and they are now two years overdue for the release of their White Paper.’

Koh believes that Vietnam should move towards a doctrinal shift in greater decentralisation of command and control (C2), and empowerment of junior leaders. Unlike in the past, where Hanoi could rely on a largely peasant army geared to fight guerrilla campaigns, in the context of today and the future it would expect a short, high-tech and intense war with conceivable adversaries – none other than China, he said.

If China is gearing towards that, there is no reason for Vietnam not to follow suit. ‘The need to just emulate the Chinese goes beyond that: to compensate for Vietnam’s manpower and materiel deficiencies vis-à-vis its Chinese counterpart, it would need bold reforms in its C2 system,’ Koh said.

He added that this would mean having to make compromises in the context of its political system, where communist-style centralised, politicised control over the military still holds sway, but if Vietnam chose the status quo, it might lose the opportunity to even have asymmetry with China.

‘There’s no way Hanoi can bridge this gap with manpower and materiel quantity – at least it could likely do better than the Chinese in decentralising its C2, and giving greater empowerment for junior military leaders,’ Koh concluded.
 
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