Vietnam Defence Forum

[Viva_Viet]

No one, as long as China is not counted as "in the region".

China Coast Guard Ships, No. 2901, No. 3901, 12000 ton in displacement, both deployed in South China Sea

Ship 2901, in Sanya, Hainan Province
View attachment 405036

Ship 3901, in waters of Xisha Islands
View attachment 405037

CN forces lost in oil rig conflict against VN coast guard

 

[Aqsuperman]

No one, as long as China is not counted as "in the region".

China Coast Guard Ships, No. 2901, No. 3901, 12000 ton in displacement, both deployed in South China Sea

Ship 2901, in Sanya, Hainan Province
View attachment 405036

Ship 3901, in waters of Xisha Islands
View attachment 405037

Wow aren't those ships a bit of a overkill for a force like the Coast Guard ? And is that a 76mm turret ?

But well anyway, if the rumors are true, our countries are about to have another water fight with each other sooner or later, do keep us inform about that if it does happen

 

[Viva_Viet]

Wow aren't those ships a bit of a overkill for a force like the Coast Guard ? And is that a 76mm turret ?

But well anyway, if the rumors are true, our countries are about to have another water fight with each other sooner or later, do keep us inform about that if it does happen

BBC news just said thats "based on DWNews on 07, Jun , 2 Vnese fishing boats messing around a Cnese oil rig "

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/singapore-government-eyes-new-laws-to-combat-fake-news.502605/

 

[Viet]

Better than nothing. the two new patrol boats, 270 tons, 19 knots, powered by 2 Japanese made ship engines, Aluminium cabin.

 

[Viet]

Coming home

Da Nang International Airport, June 18. The remains of two fallen US soldiers were handed over to the US army. 1,200 US soldiers are still missing.

Irony of history. Da nang beach also was the place, where the first US Marines landed in Vietnam.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

They grind and stroke each other, its love afterall and we should not judge them.

 

[frequency]

Let them be, they are living in their own fantasy, their parent inhale too much agent orange that makes them a bit "special" if you know what i mean lols...... You know, i have to admit that vietnamese are number one in south east asia, number one in delusional and bullshiting.....

Jealous?

 

[The Eagle]

@TenLua if you have any issue w.r.t moderation or your deleted posts etc, you are most welcome at GHQ section to discuss but use of inappropriate language is not allowed at all. Rather than insulting and abusing, adopt proper procedure or way for redressal of such matter.

Rest about other member violating rules, use report button against such posts/members and move on without quoting back or doing so in return that Mods will take care.

Regards,

 

[jhungary]

Actually US$1.843 billion (DDG 114–116, FY2011/12)
Easy 2 billion now.

Actually, it's cost 2.1 billions for Flight IIA and 2.4 for Flight III

It's actually not really that expensive, the HMAS Hobart (Hobart Class) cost USD 3 billions each. Modern Destroyer is mighty expensive...

Funny for a Indonesian to come here and criticize VPA anti-aircraft system while the Indonesia military only operate MANPADS on truck and same Soviet - era auto-cannon (or Chinese copies that blow their troop up), not even a single dedicate medium range AA missile system. North Korea may as well fire away their missiles into Indonesia butt and you all will just take it with joy

But well let return to the topic of the thread. The most difficult task of each live ammo exercise of the VPA is not in the the exercise itself, its the preparation that take up most of the time. Most important one are unloading and loading the ammunition, this is to make sure that they dont just blow up in the soldier face.

You really shouldn't smoke next to a pile of ammo

 

[Carlosa]

Actually, it's cost 2.1 billions for Flight IIA and 2.4 for Flight III

It's actually not really that expensive, the HMAS Hobart (Hobart Class) cost USD 3 billions each. Modern Destroyer is mighty expensive...

You are right, just 3 billion, ahh...... little money. Oh could you please transfer me a few millions? I need some pocket money for the weekend; thanks bro.

Now seriously, the Hobart class is the Spanish F-100 class Álvaro de Bazán. I understand that building under license will be more expensive, some of the modules of the ship are made in Spain and have to be transported to Australia and that's also more expensive. There is also some customization for the Australian requirements, etc, etc, but the last destroyer of the class that was built in Spain for the Spanish Navy had a cost of $1 billion, the ship entered service in 2012. So going from 1 to 3 billion, that's a mighty difference. Any idea what made it so expensive?

 

[Nike]

You are right, just 3 billion, ahh...... little money. Oh could you please transfer me a few millions? I need some pocket money for the weekend; thanks bro.

Now seriously, the Hobart class is the Spanish F-100 class Álvaro de Bazán. I understand that building under license will be more expensive, some of the modules of the ship are made in Spain and have to be transported to Australia and that's also more expensive. There is also some customization for the Australian requirements, etc, etc, but the last destroyer of the class that was built in Spain for the Spanish Navy had a cost of $1 billion, the ship entered service in 2012. So going from 1 to 3 billion, that's a mighty difference. Any idea what made it so expensive?

Australian boats utilizing local shipbuilder workers extensively, in which notoriously very expensive at hours/wages compared with even their Spanish counterparts. Not to mention the Australian extensively upgrading their Yards as part of the acqutition deals

 

[Carlosa]

Australian boats utilizing local shipbuilder workers extensively, in which notoriously very expensive at hours/wages compared with even their Spanish counterparts. Not to mention the Australian extensively upgrading their Yards as part of the acqutition deals

Yes, I know Australian shipyards are quite expensive, that was quite an issue during the selection of the submarines, even the Australian prime minister initially wanted the subs to be foreign built because of that reason but in the end had to back down because of pressure from the workers unions and public opinion that wanted something made in Australia, but............. hell, with a difference of almost 2 billion per destroyer, lets say just 1.5 billion, multiply for 3 destroyers and you have a total difference of 4.5 billion usd. Vietnam & Indonesia can build a whole navy with that money. Oh well, Australia is a wealthy country, they can afford it.

 

[Nike]

Yes, I know Australian shipyards are quite expensive, that was quite an issue during the selection of the submarines, even the Australian prime minister initially wanted the subs to be foreign built because of that reason but in the end had to back down because of pressure from the workers unions and public opinion that wanted something made in Australia, but............. hell, with a difference of almost 2 billion per destroyer, lets say just 1.5 billion, multiply for 3 destroyers and you have a total difference of 4.5 billion usd. Vietnam & Indonesia can build a whole navy with that money. Oh well, Australia is a wealthy country, they can afford it.

their choice, their money, but looking at the thing they had right now they got the most potent surface fleets in ASEAN/OCEANIA region, 2 Canberra Class LHD, 3 AWD Hobart class destroyer, 8 upgraded Anzac class Frigates and 6 Adelaide class Frigate with Six Collins class. Seemed impressive even compared among other commonwealth Countries they are the second largest after Royal Navy (excluding India Navy).

 

[jhungary]

You are right, just 3 billion, ahh...... little money. Oh could you please transfer me a few millions? I need some pocket money for the weekend; thanks bro.

Now seriously, the Hobart class is the Spanish F-100 class Álvaro de Bazán. I understand that building under license will be more expensive, some of the modules of the ship are made in Spain and have to be transported to Australia and that's also more expensive. There is also some customization for the Australian requirements, etc, etc, but the last destroyer of the class that was built in Spain for the Spanish Navy had a cost of $1 billion, the ship entered service in 2012. So going from 1 to 3 billion, that's a mighty difference. Any idea what made it so expensive?

Hobarts was based on F105, but it is bigger, heavier and longer, although the armament system does not change aside from Hobart is designed to fire SM-6 and SM-3 while F105 is designed to fire SM-2 only.

There are several changes from F105, including a fully functioning ECM AA/AS package. And also automation upgrade so that Hobart only take 2/3 of F105 crew (180 on Hobart, 250 on F105) even tho Hobart is 1000 tons heavier and bigger.

Other different Is that Hobart is redesign from F105, meaning the Australian have to pay license fee to Spanish Government for Hull Design and US for system licenses (AEGIS System) which mean they are more expensive per ship.

Overall cost is more expensive too as @madokafc point out we have a shit MFU (Manufacture Union) and they sort of suck a lot of money in a lot of small area, also the rest of the money is investment for ASC ship yard to make other ship, such as the SEA 4000 submarine replacement, Future Patrol Boat and SEA5000 Frigate project.

A few years ago, we had a serious discussion on whether or not just buy these from Spain, which they offered to build them for us for 6.5 billions (for 3 destroyer) and the American offered to build us 3 Flight IIA for 7 billions...but we rejected both offer...

Australian boats utilizing local shipbuilder workers extensively, in which notoriously very expensive at hours/wages compared with even their Spanish counterparts. Not to mention the Australian extensively upgrading their Yards as part of the acqutition deals

Yeah, our wages are notoriously expensive (Well, some of them are) and the Union in Australia have been trying everything they can to squeeze every last dime for manufacturer job in here, that's the reason why we had a big hit on losing Manufacture job overseas (a lot of those moved to Indonesia actually, you may aware)

But yes, our wages is about 60% more than average Spanish ship builder. But the difference is, our builder ain't gonna build shit but sit on their arse with the butt crack showing....

 

[Carlosa]

their choice, their money, but looking at the thing they had right now they got the most potent surface fleets in ASEAN/OCEANIA region, 2 Canberra Class LHD, 3 AWD Hobart class destroyer, 8 upgraded Anzac class Frigates and 6 Adelaide class Frigate with Six Collins class. Seemed impressive even compared among other commonwealth Countries they are the second largest after Royal Navy (excluding India Navy).

Sure, of course and when counting the upcoming 12 subs, its even more impressive.

Also, the Australian shipyard is not just expensive because of high salaries, but also because they are quite inefficient and sometimes even negligent. During the building of the Camberra carrier which is also an Spanish design built under license from Navantia, I remember reading an Spanish article about how pissed off Navantia was with the Australian shipyard because of a lot of mistakes and bad workmanship during the building of the carrier, at one point there was a pretty serious building mistake that ended up costing more than $200 million to fix and caused a big delay in the construction and that caused Navantia to lose a lot of money. They were very critical of the shipyard workers and management.

Here is a link that talks about the construction problems and its easy to see how things got very expensive, but not only that, the low building quality also affects the quality of the ship.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s/news-story/997fc198353773189376391c78fdffde

Hobarts was based on F105, but it is bigger, heavier and longer, although the armament system does not change aside from Hobart is designed to fire SM-6 and SM-3 while F105 is designed to fire SM-2 only.

There are several changes from F105, including a fully functioning ECM AA/AS package. And also automation upgrade so that Hobart only take 2/3 of F105 crew (180 on Hobart, 250 on F105) even tho Hobart is 1000 tons heavier and bigger.

Other different Is that Hobart is redesign from F105, meaning the Australian have to pay license fee to Spanish Government for Hull Design and US for system licenses (AEGIS System) which mean they are more expensive per ship.

Overall cost is more expensive too as @madokafc point out we have a shit MFU (Manufacture Union) and they sort of suck a lot of money in a lot of small area, also the rest of the money is investment for ASC ship yard to make other ship, such as the SEA 4000 submarine replacement, Future Patrol Boat and SEA5000 Frigate project.

A few years ago, we had a serious discussion on whether or not just buy these from Spain, which they offered to build them for us for 6.5 billions (for 3 destroyer) and the American offered to build us 3 Flight IIA for 7 billions...but we rejected both offer...



Yeah, our wages are notoriously expensive (Well, some of them are) and the Union in Australia have been trying everything they can to squeeze every last dime for manufacturer job in here, that's the reason why we had a big hit on losing Manufacture job overseas (a lot of those moved to Indonesia actually, you may aware)

But yes, our wages is about 60% more than average Spanish ship builder. But the difference is, our builder ain't gonna build shit but sit on their arse with the butt crack showing....

I posted without updating the page, I didn't see your post. Quite a bit of customization.

Yes, the problem is also the shipyard union, they are port queens that do crappy work at high cost and they have the benefit of being a monopoly so they have the government trapped.