Vietnam Defence Forum

[Nilgiri]

Great and very interesting thread (I just finished reading the latest pages of it).

Specially enjoyed @Viet and @Carlosa inputs.

I hope to see more India-Vietnam cooperation in the coming years.

Can you guys tell me the status of Cam Ranh Bay (Last I heard Russians disagreed with the lease price that Vietnam wanted and now its sitting mostly idle)?

I potentially see Indian navy basing some assets there in the future...or even leasing it completely maybe.

 

[Carlosa]

after 3 years of development, field trials for a new domestic made 6 barreled Gatling gun designed for surface warships

the gun design is quite similar to the russian made AK-630 CIWS.

Finally some good news about new product development. I guess there is no more need to buy the license to produce the AK-630M. I know VN was trying to buy it and also for the 76mm gun AK-176M, maybe the terms were expensive or Russia didn't want to give the license.

Great and very interesting thread (I just finished reading the latest pages of it).

Specially enjoyed @Viet and @Carlosa inputs.

I hope to see more India-Vietnam cooperation in the coming years.

Can you guys tell me the status of Cam Ranh Bay (Last I heard Russians disagreed with the lease price that Vietnam wanted and now its sitting mostly idle)?

I potentially see Indian navy basing some assets there in the future...or even leasing it completely maybe.

Dhanyavaad Indian friend, we love India here (at least I do).

Yes, I believe there will be a lot of cooperation with India and we should see the results soon. I expect Brahmos, some fast patrol boats and probably some OPVs. Hopefully a frigate based on INS Kamorta and quite a few more things.

Myself, I don't have information about the lease price for Cam Ranh Bay, but that part of the port, the so called international port seems to be getting ready for business. I don't think it will be idle. I do expect to see temporary deployments of Indian ships there and probably American ships too. A permanent deployment would be most welcome.

Russians often try to get you for as much as they can get away with when selling arms to Vietnam, so I guess Vietnam is paying back the same way, its probably just a matter of further negotiation, plus VN is not too happy about Russian support for China's position in SCS.

 

[Nilgiri]

Dhanyavaad Indian friend, we love India here (at least I do).

Are you Vietnamese guy living in Spain or other way around? You seem to be well versed in military matters.

Yes, I believe there will be a lot of cooperation with India and we should see the results soon. I expect Brahmos, some fast patrol boats and probably some OPVs. Hopefully a frigate based on INS Kamorta and quite a few more things.

Yes these are good welcome developments I have been seeing/following too. I only noticed now they are here in this thread as well...(I only saw their counterparts in the Indian defence section). I would like to see Tejas fly under Viet Air Force one day as well....as well as see India buy Viet defence goods when the sector matures more (we buy from some of our neighbours like Sri Lanka now - stuff like interceptor boats and so on... so the demand for low cost bang for the buck products from the rest of friendly developing world will only increase in future I think).

Myself, I don't have information about the lease price for Cam Ranh Bay, but that part of the port, the so called international port seems to be getting ready for business. I don't think it will be idle. I do expect to see temporary deployments of Indian ships there and probably American ships too. A permanent deployment would be most welcome.

Ok great. I think both Cam Ranh and Subic bay in PH will see much more military based activity (local and foreign) in the coming years....in addition to their commercial enterprise.

Russians often try to get you for as much as they can get away with when selling arms to Vietnam, so I guess Vietnam is paying back the same way, its probably just a matter of further negotiation, plus VN is not too happy about Russian support for China's position in SCS.

From what I understood they just didnt see the benefit at the price Vietnam asked sometime in the 90s (I think during Russian Yeltsin administration)...and Cam Ranh bay was vacated by them. That was when Russia was at its worst financial shape since the USSR breakup recovery was just starting. Now they got the funding for it...but I doubt they will return any time soon seeing that they dont want to anger China like you said. But I am sure India will be interested in something soon or in the future (when Indian navy will be much larger and have larger foreign stationing requirements). I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[Carlosa]

Are you Vietnamese guy living in Spain or other way around? You seem to be well versed in military matters..

The other way around, I'm Spanish (also ethnic Spanish) living in Vietnam.

I'm totally amateur when it comes to military things, this is just a hobby of mine, but I had this hobby for many years and I like to read about this and I like to analyze things and make my own opinions; sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong.

From what I understood they just didnt see the benefit at the price Vietnam asked sometime in the 90s (I think during Russian Yeltsin administration)...and Cam Ranh bay was vacated by them. That was when Russia was at its worst financial shape since the USSR breakup recovery was just starting. Now they got the funding for it...but I doubt they will return any time soon seeing that they dont want to anger China like you said. But I am sure India will be interested in something soon or in the future (when Indian navy will be much larger and have larger foreign stationing requirements). I guess we will have to wait and see.

Oh the pricing issue that you are talking about is from the 90's? That's history now. I don't think there is much of an issue now because Russia is very involved in the development of that project and I think one area there will be just for them. As far as I know, they do plan to use it regardless of what China thinks. They need a logistical outpost there.

 

[Nilgiri]

The other war way around, I'm Spanish (also ethnic Spanish) living in Vietnam.

I'm totally amateur when it comes to military things, this is just a hobby of mine, but I had this hobby for many years and I like to read about this and I like to analyze things and make my own opinions; sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong.

Thats nice. Whats it like living in Vietnam? Are you in Hanoi or Saigon or elsewhere? Vietnam has always fascinated me.

Oh the pricing issue that you are talking about is from the 90's? That's history now. I don't think there is much of an issue now because Russia is very involved in the development of that project and I think one area there will be just for them. As far as I know, they do plan to use it regardless of what China thinks. They need a logistical outpost there.

Oh ok, thats good to know! Yes my info is somewhat dated for sure.

 

[Carlosa]

I would like to see Tejas fly under Viet Air Force one day as well....as well as see India buy Viet defence goods when the sector matures more (we buy from some of our neighbours like Sri Lanka now - stuff like interceptor boats and so on... so the demand for low cost bang for the buck products from the rest of friendly developing world will only increase in future I think)..

The Tejas would be a good replacement for the Mig-21 and at the right price. I think its very possible once the Tejas matures a bit more.

The truth is, there are a lot of Indian products that Vietnam can use.

Thats nice. Whats it like living in Vietnam? Are you in Hanoi or Saigon or elsewhere? Vietnam has always fascinated me..

I live in Danang, a beach city in central Vietnam. I like it here. Its quite nice here, not crowded or polluted like HCMC or Saigon. Actually, the environment and physical beauty of the place is really nice. Cheap, good food and many friendly people. Some things require some adaptation, other things are first class. Google it and come over some time.

Many foreigners are moving to Danang these days, westerners, a lot of Koreans, etc.

Thats nice. Whats it like living in Vietnam? Are you in Hanoi or Saigon or elsewhere? Vietnam has always fascinated me..

I can say the same about India, I like many things there. I was in India once, but many years ago, its time for an update trip.

 

[Viet]

Finally some good news about new product development. I guess there is no more need to buy the license to produce the AK-630M. I know VN was trying to buy it and also for the 76mm gun AK-176M, maybe the terms were expensive or Russia didn't want to give the license.

Russians often try to get you for as much as they can get away with when selling arms to Vietnam, so I guess Vietnam is paying back the same way, its probably just a matter of further negotiation, plus VN is not too happy about Russian support for China's position in SCS.

yes we need more domestic development, just buying things is boring and does not bring us any further down the road. true, as Russia leans today on China, for money, investments and many things more. I expert our relationship to the bear to become complicate. also, just reading a report saying we are testing an unmanned small high-speed patrol vessel, armed by automatic 12.7 mm cannon. the boat control and firing system appears to have been developed by Viettel. I will post it later after reading more into it.

Great and very interesting thread (I just finished reading the latest pages of it).

Specially enjoyed @Viet and @Carlosa inputs.

I hope to see more India-Vietnam cooperation in the coming years.

Can you guys tell me the status of Cam Ranh Bay (Last I heard Russians disagreed with the lease price that Vietnam wanted and now its sitting mostly idle)?

I potentially see Indian navy basing some assets there in the future...or even leasing it completely maybe.

basically the Cam Ranh bay is divided into two parts: one belongs to the Navy, also the home of our submarine fleet. this part lies deep in the inner side of the bay. very well protected against enemy threats. the outer part is called Cam ranh International Port and being offered for foreign navies for maintenance, repair, accommodation, refuel, food. and even military protection.

yes VN offers Russia a permanent base in the outer part of the bay. Russia is considering the offer, but she is not ready yet to take it, at least not for now. there are some political impacts to the region she needs to evaluate, especially how China will react.


this is Cam ranh International Port, capable to host all types of warships, submarines and aircraft carriers.

 

[Carlosa]

yes we need more domestic development, just buying things is boring and does not bring us any further down the road. true, as Russia leans today on China, for money, investments and many things more. I expert our relationship to the bear to become complicate. also, just reading a report saying we are testing an unmanned small high-speed patrol vessel, armed by automatic 12.7 mm cannon. the boat control and firing system appears to have been developed by Viettel. I will post it later after reading more into it.

Definitely. I saw the article about the remote operated boat in the Viet press (I read it through Google translate and is not good enough to post it). Looks interesting. Viettel is the shining star of the defense industry. I think they should place most of the defence manufacturing and research under Viettel hands and everything would move faster and be better.

VN offers Russia a permanent base in the outer part of the bay. Russia is considering the offer, but she is not ready yet to take it, at least not for now. there are some political impacts to the region she needs to evaluate, especially how China will react.

Are you sure that Russia have not made a decision to utilize the port? I thought it was a joint project and they were on board.

 

[Viet]

Are you sure that Russia have not made a decision to utilize the port? I thought it was a joint project and they were on board.

from what I know, Russia is our partner in upgrading the bay. the offer to Russia to have a permanent base in the outer part of the bay is on the table. she can take it. or everything remains at status quo: Russia has the special privilege, her warships can dock the bay at any time she needs to.

 

[Carlosa]

from what I know, Russia is our partner in upgrading the bay. the offer to Russia to have a permanent base in the outer part of the bay is on the table. she can take it. or everything remains at status quo: Russia has the special privilege, her warships can dock the bay at any time she needs to.

Ok, well, its a shame if they don't take it.

from what I know, Russia is our partner in upgrading the bay. the offer to Russia to have a permanent base in the outer part of the bay is on the table. she can take it. or everything remains at status quo: Russia has the special privilege, her warships can dock the bay at any time she needs to.

It would be nice for Russia, India and USA, for each one of them to have their exclusive area in Cam Ranh Bay.

 

[Nilgiri]

It would be nice for Russia, India and USA, for each one of them to have their exclusive area in Cam Ranh Bay.

We get along with the other 2, but I dont think they will get along with each other in close proximity hehe

 

[Carlosa]

We get along with the other 2, but I dont think they will get along with each other in close proximity hehe

Well, we place the Indian base in between the other two and that should do it.

We get along with the other 2, but I dont think they will get along with each other in close proximity hehe

Is there any plan for an upgraded version of the Talwar class coming up? I think that would be a nice, affordable ship for Vietnam. Upgraded with Barak 8 and MF/Star of course. A second Brahmos VLS would be nice too, the ship is big enough for 16 of them.

 

[Viet]

Ok, well, its a shame if they don't take it.

yes, if Russia seriously wants to return to the status of a great military power, earning respects from others, she should take the offer, adapting a Russian version of pivot to Asia by increasing the naval presence in the strategic waterways, especially the South China Sea. as said, the offer is on the table.

https://rbth.com/news/2016/05/18/vietnam-open-to-russian-return-to-cam-ranh-bay_594025

unfortunately the current Russia pacific fleet is just a shadow of the past. so her economy. she needs to weigh costs, risks, benefits before taking the chance.

We get along with the other 2, but I dont think they will get along with each other in close proximity hehe

why not. I think it is very possible to have the US, Russia and India bases in the bay. the more people come to the party, the better is the mood. or in the case of the bay, the more lease money we get. have you seen how we reclaimed land for the bay? if we have more money, we can reclaim more land.

 

[Nilgiri]

Is there any plan for an upgraded version of the Talwar class coming up? I think that would be a nice, affordable ship for Vietnam. Upgraded with Barak 8 and MF/Star of course. A second Brahmos VLS would be nice too, the ship is big enough for 16 of them.

I have not heard about any forthcoming upgrade plans in the short term.

I do know that 3 Talwar-related ships are sitting in Russia without powerplants (because of the Ukraine conflict) and that India has expressed on and off interest in acquiring these (since Ukraine will supply India the Gas turbines). The thing is according to some other sources, India wants to build them from scratch at its own shipyards. If thats the case, maybe Vietnam can buy these admiral-grigorovich frigates?:

3 hulls are up for grabs right now I think. You basically have to do the powerplant integration (India can do that if Vietnam wants) and add and integrate whatever weapons suite you want (again India can do that if needed). Since India has experience with the Barak 8 and MF/Star, that can be looked at with this platform too (though the MF/Star integration may be an issue regarding any structural modifications that may needed to the ship deck). Other options are available too I would assume so Vietnam can optimise as it sees fit. Russia-India can maybe provide a line of credit as well for the whole deal if needed.

It can be a juicy deal clincher for the Russian Cam Ranh Bay lease as well I think.

 

[Carlosa]

I have not heard about any forthcoming upgrade plans in the short term.

I do know that 3 Talwar-related ships are sitting in Russia without powerplants (because of the Ukraine conflict) and that India has expressed on and off interest in acquiring these (since Ukraine will supply India the Gas turbines). The thing is according to some other sources, India wants to build them from scratch at its own shipyards. If thats the case, maybe Vietnam can buy these admiral-grigorovich frigates?:

3 hulls are up for grabs right now I think. You basically have to do the powerplant integration (India can do that if Vietnam wants) and add and integrate whatever weapons suite you want (again India can do that if needed). Since India has experience with the Barak 8 and MF/Star, that can be looked at with this platform too (though the MF/Star integration may be an issue regarding any structural modifications that may needed to the ship deck). Other options are available too I would assume so Vietnam can optimise as it sees fit. Russia-India can maybe provide a line of credit as well for the whole deal if needed.

It can be a juicy deal clincher for the Russian Cam Ranh Bay lease as well I think.

Yes, I've heard about those 3 Russian ships too. I think that's a natural deal for India first of all. That Gregorovich class ships are already an upgrade over the Talwar class and with Barak 8 and MF/Star, that would be a very nice package. Lets see who gets them.