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the variants 5.1 or 5.9 appear to be bigger, probably suitable as fleet defence.

No, they are all in the same size (2000 tonnes). The Gepard 5.1 ocean patrol ship almost doesn't have a weapons. The variant 5.3 looks exactly like the current Vietnamese frigates which is under construction.
As i said, it's already old picture and a lot of things changes since then, including names of modifications.
 
really? :D

the variants 5.1 or 5.9 appear to be bigger, probably suitable as fleet defence. I wonder why the Navy has chosen Gepard-3.9 instead of 5.1 or 5.9, with missile system aboard having little chance against Chinese destroyers?

I've been asking the same question for a long time, why Vietnam keeps choosing the lowest quality Gepard, one that can't survive a conflict with the chinese? $350 million a piece for a ship that can't survive is a waste of money. India can supply much better ships and cheaper.


really? :D

the variants 5.1 or 5.9 appear to be bigger, probably suitable as fleet defence. I wonder why the Navy has chosen Gepard-3.9 instead of 5.1 or 5.9, with missile system aboard having little chance against Chinese destroyers?

The 5.1 variant is just an OPV, Its not an actual warship, it only has guns.

Should Vietnam be interested in acquiring Brahmos, what specific version(s) are they interested in and for what platform(s)?

I imagine it will be the standard Brahmos that can launch from ships and probably the one for coastal batteries. Its not clear yet for what ship, but probably for Indian made ships.
 
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I've been asking the same question for a long time, why Vietnam chose the lowest quality Gepard, one that can't survive a conflict with the chinese? $350 million a piece for a ship that can't survive is a waste of money. India can supply much better ships and cheaper.
.
Because there are day dreamers and other in charge making decisions. Like the one in the authority that recently rejects the assistance of the US government in finding the cause of mass fish deaths.
 
Because there are day dreamers and other in charge making decisions. Like the one in the authority that recently rejects the assistance of the US government in finding the cause of mass fish deaths.

I would add to that that those purchasing deals probably include money under the table, Its the only explanation for the fact that they keep getting Gepards. Either that or they are extremely incompetent.

Its becoming very clear that the cause for the mass fish deaths is being covered up.
 
US Ambassador highlights Obama’s fruitful visit to Vietnam

VNA FRIDAY, JUNE 10, 2016

US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius (Source: CSIS)

Washington D.C. (VNA) – US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius described the recent historical visit to Vietnam by President Barack Obama a great success during a discussion at the Center for Strategic & International Studies in Washington D.C on June 9.

The event drew hundreds international experts and academicians.

Ambassador Osius said President Obama was very touched by the warm reception of Vietnamese people.

He reviewed significant achievements gained during the President’s trip, including the Vietnam – US Joint Statement, which demonstrates the bilateral relationship is quickly broadening and deepening based on their comprehensive partnership.

He shared his earlier ambition of pursuing 12 different joint cooperation agreements with Vietnam and only hoped to get seven or eight reached during the President’s visit.

However, in fact, the two countries reached up to 20 agreements, which illustrates their willingness to collaborate in wide-ranging fields, both bilaterally and multilaterally, in economics-trade, navigation security and safety, climate change adaptation, education, and science-technology as well as in addressing war consequences, preventing the illegal trade in wildlife, and promoting people-to-people exchanges, the diplomat said.

This creates a solid foundation for the two countries’ relations in the next 50 and 60 years, he added.

Regarding the bilateral economic and trade cooperation, the Ambassador said they signed a number of commercial agreements, including the sale of a hundred Boeing airplanes to Vietjet Air, which is equivalent of 61,000 jobs in the US.

He said the US will support Vietnam to fully implement commitments under the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) – the world’s largest free trade pact.

He extolled Vietnam’s engagement in TPP to propel its economy and encourage continuous reform, thus offering excellent opportunities for US businesses, he noted.

People-to-people exchange and education are also highlights in the Vietnam-US relations, demonstrated by Vietnam ’s granting of a license to open Fulbright University – the first independent not-for-profit American-style university in Ho Chi Minh City , as well as the US volunteers’ arrival in Vietnam to teach English, and the expansion of visa for US citizens to one year.

As regards security cooperation, the Ambassador underlined the US President’s full removal of the lethal arms embargo against Vietnam as a historical move to eliminate a big obstacle in the two countries’ normalisation process.

The US pledged to boost security cooperation with Vietnam, especially navigation security, he confirmed.

The bilateral collaboration in climate change adaptation is also a success, he said, noting that during the President’s visit, the two sides agreed to work alongside to cope with environmental changes in the Red River Delta and Mekong Delta in Vietnam .

The US promised to help Vietnam struggle with the recent drought in the Mekong Delta, he said.

Vietnam and the US are exerting every effort to address war consequences, especially searching for soldiers missing in action during wartime. The US spent 92 million USD over the past decade on cleaning up unexploded ordnance in Vietnam, he said.

He affirmed that the US will continue to support Vietnam to decontaminate Agent Orange/Dioxin in central Da Nang city and Bien Hoa airbase in southern Dong Nai province. The US will also assist AO/dioxin victims in the 10 hardest hit provinces.

Answering experts’ questions on the East Sea issue, Ambassador Ted Osius said the US called on the involved parties to respect international law, avoid use or threat to use forces and militarisation in the East Sea.

About the US’s approach to Cam Ranh Bay, the diplomat said the US does not intend to put military bases in Vietnam.

The Ambassador said the US President’s visit to Vietnam creates a firm foundation for the two countries to enhance their relations in the coming time, especially when the US will have a new cabinet in 2017.-VNA
 
I imagine it will be the standard Brahmos that can launch from ships and probably the one for coastal batteries. Its not clear yet for what ship, but probably for Indian made ships.
Brahmos is capable of being launched from multiple platforms, including submarines, ships, aircraft and land based Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL).

Landbased MAL would be easy and effective. Fired from the coast near Hanoi, Hue or Da Nang the 300km Brahmos can hit ships sailing just off the island of Hainan, the peninsula and the nearby Chinese coast. Vietname already operates P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26 Yakhont), to which Brahmos would be a good complement. It could serve as replacement of older P-5 Pyatyorka (SS-N-3 Shaddock), although their range (450 km a/b-version, 750 km c-version) makes them interesting to keep around (the distance from Da Nang to Paracel islands is about 430km). More in need of replacement would be the 80km P-15 Termit (SS-N-2 Styx)

Vietnam has 12 Su-27 (9 Su-27SKs and 3 Su-27UBKs, possible 1 Su 27 lost between january 2013 and today) and 36 Su-30MK2 (16 Su-30MKs and 20 Su-30MK2Vs). The latter at least can carry multple Kh-31P/A anti-radar/ship missiles (103/110km range), Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME) and Kh-29T/L laser guided missiles (12-30km range, depending on version).
It also has 36 Su-22, which can in principal also use Kh-29T/L (don't know if Viet air force does) . For these, the Vietnamese also have the short range Kh23 Grom and Kh-25. But those would be suited only for attacking ship lacking SAMs.
In short, the Vietnamese airforce has a viable anti-shipping capability, if somewhat short ranged in the face of newer ships in the Chinese navy (notably 052C/D). While the Su30s could carry Brahmos, it would be limited to a single missile, until such time when Brahmos M/NG becomes available that is (of which Su-30 could carry 3). So, the airlaunched Brahmos would also be relatively easy and effective. This could be with a view to the Spratly Islands, which are some 850km from Cam Rahn.

Submarines: Vietnam has Kilo class submarines (5-6). These have 533mm torpedo tubes that could launch Brahmos M/NG eventually (current Brahmos is wider and would require VLS installation). However, these boats already have
3M-54 Klub (SS-N-27 Sizzler), so the need seems less pressing.

Ships. The existing Gepard 3.9s each have 8 Kh-38 and this would seem sufficient for an ASW platform. And not very easy to reconfigure to take the much larger and heavier Brahmos or even Bhramos M/NG. However,, ships yet to be built could be fitted with the Russian universal vertical launcher, which is Brahmos compatible. Various models and artist impression suggest we may see these eventually. Kh-35 is also the missile on the BPS-500 and the newer Project 1241.8 Molniya attack craft. Older Project 1241.RE (NATO: Tarantul-I) however could see their P-15 Termit/SS-N-2 Styx replaced ( see coastal defences and http://tintuc.vn/quan-su/ten-lua-moi-cho-molniya-viet-nam-brahmos-hay-yakhont-club-54565 ). Much in the same way as was done on Rajput class destroyers of IN with Brahmos, or Russian Nanuchka corvette. Smaller ships are either Kh-35 user (Svetlyak class) or to old to convert (Osa class)

Personally, I would first bring in Brahmos MAL for coastal defence, modernize the project 1241.RE with Brahmos, have the newest Gepards fitted with VLS/Brahmos and big Brahmos for Su-30. If and when Brahmos M/NG comes available, then look to Su-30 and Kilo applications, mainly keeping Spratleys in mind.
 
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Su-27 with R-27 air-to-air missiles

55426122-1324346378-su27-cat-canh.jpg


su273bdnw_xahb.jpg
 
Brahmos is capable of being launched from multiple platforms, including submarines, ships, aircraft and land based Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL).

Landbased MAL would be easy and effective. Fired from the coast near Hanoi, Hue or Da Nang the 300km Brahmos can hit ships sailing just off the island of Hainan, the peninsula and the nearby Chinese coast. Vietname already operates P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26 Yakhont), to which Brahmos would be a good complement. It could serve as replacement of older P-5 Pyatyorka (SS-N-3 Shaddock), although their range (450 km a/b-version, 750 km c-version) makes them interesting to keep around (the distance from Da Nang to Paracel islands is about 430km). More in need of replacement would be the 80km P-15 Termit (SS-N-2 Styx)

Vietnam has 12 Su-27 (9 Su-27SKs and 3 Su-27UBKs, possible 1 Su 27 lost between january 2013 and today) and 36 Su-30MK2 (16 Su-30MKs and 20 Su-30MK2Vs). The latter at least can carry multple Kh-31P/A anti-radar/ship missiles (103/110km range), Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME) and Kh-29T/L laser guided missiles (12-30km range, depending on version).
It also has 36 Su-22, which can in principal also use Kh-29T/L (don't know if Viet air force does) . For these, the Vietnamese also have the short range Kh23 Grom and Kh-25. But those would be suited only for attacking ship lacking SAMs.
In short, the Vietnamese airforce has a viable anti-shipping capability, if somewhat short ranged in the face of newer ships in the Chinese navy (notably 052C/D). While the Su30s could carry Brahmos, it would be limited to a single missile, until such time when Brahmos M/NG becomes available that is (of which Su-30 could carry 3). So, the airlaunched Brahmos would also be relatively easy and effective. This could be with a view to the Spratly Islands, which are some 850km from Cam Rahn.

Submarines: Vietnam has Kilo class submarines (5-6). These have 533mm torpedo tubes that could launch Brahmos M/NG eventually (current Brahmos is wider and would require VLS installation). However, these boats already have
3M-54 Klub (SS-N-27 Sizzler), so the need seems less pressing.

Ships. The existing Gepard 3.9s each have 8 Kh-38 and this would seem sufficient for an ASW platform. And not very easy to reconfigure to take the much larger and heavier Brahmos or even Bhramos M/NG. However,, ships yet to be built could be fitted with the Russian universal vertical launcher, which is Brahmos compatible. Various models and artist impression suggest we may see these eventually. Kh-35 is also the missile on the BPS-500 and the newer Project 1241.8 Molniya attack craft. Older Project 1241.RE (NATO: Tarantul-I) however could see their P-15 Termit/SS-N-2 Styx ( see coastal defences and http://tintuc.vn/quan-su/ten-lua-moi-cho-molniya-viet-nam-brahmos-hay-yakhont-club-54565 ). Much in the same way as was done on Rajput class destroyers of IN with Brahmos, or Russian Nanuchka corvette. Smaller ships are either Kh-35 user (Svetlyak class) or to old to convert (Osa class)

Personally, I would first bring in Brahmos MAL for coastal defence, modernize the project 1241.RE with Brahmos, have the newest Gepards fitted with VLS/Brahmos and big Brahmos for Su-30. If and when Brahmos M/NG comes available, then look to Su-30 and Kilo applications, mainly keeping Spratleys in mind.

Yes, 1 SU-27 was lost, there are 11 now. They are been upgraded to an standard similar to the SU-30 now.

Brahmos is too heavy for the current SU-30MK2. I believe they are testing a lighter version that can be carried by the standard SU-30 (just 1 missile), but its not out yet, so for the SU-30MK2 ideally it has to be the Brahmos-M (mini), now called NG. It will be able to carry 3 of those, but have to wait a few years for that missile.

I also think that coastal batteries will be the first to carry Brahmos, since no ship have been decided although that could happen soon since India is proposing some ships right now. The modernization of the Molniya / Tarantul ships seems to be based on Russian designs (Kalibr), so I don't know. Myself, I think the Indian options are very good, but its up to Vietnam to decide. I think Vietnam depends too much on Russian hardware. Its time to diversify.

For the next Gepards (I actually hope that there is no such thing as the next Gepards) it seems like it will be the Kalibr missile although the UKSK launcher can also carry Brahmos.

The Svetlyak class doesn't carry missiles. The Osa class could be converted to use KH-35 (others have done it), but I'm not sure is worth it. The TT-400TP will probably have a version soon with KH-35.

I think Vietnam has some big decisions to make. We should soon find out. Brahmos in the navy will certainly be a good step up. The chinese will not be happy about that.


Brahmos is capable of being launched from multiple platforms, including submarines, ships, aircraft and land based Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL).

Landbased MAL would be easy and effective. Fired from the coast near Hanoi, Hue or Da Nang the 300km Brahmos can hit ships sailing just off the island of Hainan, the peninsula and the nearby Chinese coast. Vietname already operates P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26 Yakhont), to which Brahmos would be a good complement. It could serve as replacement of older P-5 Pyatyorka (SS-N-3 Shaddock), although their range (450 km a/b-version, 750 km c-version) makes them interesting to keep around (the distance from Da Nang to Paracel islands is about 430km). More in need of replacement would be the 80km P-15 Termit (SS-N-2 Styx)

Vietnam has 12 Su-27 (9 Su-27SKs and 3 Su-27UBKs, possible 1 Su 27 lost between january 2013 and today) and 36 Su-30MK2 (16 Su-30MKs and 20 Su-30MK2Vs). The latter at least can carry multple Kh-31P/A anti-radar/ship missiles (103/110km range), Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME) and Kh-29T/L laser guided missiles (12-30km range, depending on version).
It also has 36 Su-22, which can in principal also use Kh-29T/L (don't know if Viet air force does) . For these, the Vietnamese also have the short range Kh23 Grom and Kh-25. But those would be suited only for attacking ship lacking SAMs.
In short, the Vietnamese airforce has a viable anti-shipping capability, if somewhat short ranged in the face of newer ships in the Chinese navy (notably 052C/D). While the Su30s could carry Brahmos, it would be limited to a single missile, until such time when Brahmos M/NG becomes available that is (of which Su-30 could carry 3). So, the airlaunched Brahmos would also be relatively easy and effective. This could be with a view to the Spratly Islands, which are some 850km from Cam Rahn.

Submarines: Vietnam has Kilo class submarines (5-6). These have 533mm torpedo tubes that could launch Brahmos M/NG eventually (current Brahmos is wider and would require VLS installation). However, these boats already have
3M-54 Klub (SS-N-27 Sizzler), so the need seems less pressing.

Ships. The existing Gepard 3.9s each have 8 Kh-38 and this would seem sufficient for an ASW platform. And not very easy to reconfigure to take the much larger and heavier Brahmos or even Bhramos M/NG. However,, ships yet to be built could be fitted with the Russian universal vertical launcher, which is Brahmos compatible. Various models and artist impression suggest we may see these eventually. Kh-35 is also the missile on the BPS-500 and the newer Project 1241.8 Molniya attack craft. Older Project 1241.RE (NATO: Tarantul-I) however could see their P-15 Termit/SS-N-2 Styx replaced ( see coastal defences and http://tintuc.vn/quan-su/ten-lua-moi-cho-molniya-viet-nam-brahmos-hay-yakhont-club-54565 ). Much in the same way as was done on Rajput class destroyers of IN with Brahmos, or Russian Nanuchka corvette. Smaller ships are either Kh-35 user (Svetlyak class) or to old to convert (Osa class)

Personally, I would first bring in Brahmos MAL for coastal defence, modernize the project 1241.RE with Brahmos, have the newest Gepards fitted with VLS/Brahmos and big Brahmos for Su-30. If and when Brahmos M/NG comes available, then look to Su-30 and Kilo applications, mainly keeping Spratleys in mind.

You forgot 1 anti ship missile which is actually very important. The air force has a good stock of the KH-59MK2, that one together with the Kh-31 would the best ones for the job. The KH-59MK2 has the best stand off range.
Brahmos is capable of being launched from multiple platforms, including submarines, ships, aircraft and land based Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL).

Landbased MAL would be easy and effective. Fired from the coast near Hanoi, Hue or Da Nang the 300km Brahmos can hit ships sailing just off the island of Hainan, the peninsula and the nearby Chinese coast. Vietname already operates P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26 Yakhont), to which Brahmos would be a good complement. It could serve as replacement of older P-5 Pyatyorka (SS-N-3 Shaddock), although their range (450 km a/b-version, 750 km c-version) makes them interesting to keep around (the distance from Da Nang to Paracel islands is about 430km). More in need of replacement would be the 80km P-15 Termit (SS-N-2 Styx)

Vietnam has 12 Su-27 (9 Su-27SKs and 3 Su-27UBKs, possible 1 Su 27 lost between january 2013 and today) and 36 Su-30MK2 (16 Su-30MKs and 20 Su-30MK2Vs). The latter at least can carry multple Kh-31P/A anti-radar/ship missiles (103/110km range), Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME) and Kh-29T/L laser guided missiles (12-30km range, depending on version).
It also has 36 Su-22, which can in principal also use Kh-29T/L (don't know if Viet air force does) . For these, the Vietnamese also have the short range Kh23 Grom and Kh-25. But those would be suited only for attacking ship lacking SAMs.
In short, the Vietnamese airforce has a viable anti-shipping capability, if somewhat short ranged in the face of newer ships in the Chinese navy (notably 052C/D). While the Su30s could carry Brahmos, it would be limited to a single missile, until such time when Brahmos M/NG becomes available that is (of which Su-30 could carry 3). So, the airlaunched Brahmos would also be relatively easy and effective. This could be with a view to the Spratly Islands, which are some 850km from Cam Rahn.

Submarines: Vietnam has Kilo class submarines (5-6). These have 533mm torpedo tubes that could launch Brahmos M/NG eventually (current Brahmos is wider and would require VLS installation). However, these boats already have
3M-54 Klub (SS-N-27 Sizzler), so the need seems less pressing.

Ships. The existing Gepard 3.9s each have 8 Kh-38 and this would seem sufficient for an ASW platform. And not very easy to reconfigure to take the much larger and heavier Brahmos or even Bhramos M/NG. However,, ships yet to be built could be fitted with the Russian universal vertical launcher, which is Brahmos compatible. Various models and artist impression suggest we may see these eventually. Kh-35 is also the missile on the BPS-500 and the newer Project 1241.8 Molniya attack craft. Older Project 1241.RE (NATO: Tarantul-I) however could see their P-15 Termit/SS-N-2 Styx replaced ( see coastal defences and http://tintuc.vn/quan-su/ten-lua-moi-cho-molniya-viet-nam-brahmos-hay-yakhont-club-54565 ). Much in the same way as was done on Rajput class destroyers of IN with Brahmos, or Russian Nanuchka corvette. Smaller ships are either Kh-35 user (Svetlyak class) or to old to convert (Osa class)

Personally, I would first bring in Brahmos MAL for coastal defence, modernize the project 1241.RE with Brahmos, have the newest Gepards fitted with VLS/Brahmos and big Brahmos for Su-30. If and when Brahmos M/NG comes available, then look to Su-30 and Kilo applications, mainly keeping Spratleys in mind.

850 km is just for the eastern part of the Spratly islands. The closest ones to the mainland start at less than 500 km from the Vietnamese coastline. The Brahmos missile actual range is not less than 500 km, so if Vietnam were to be able to disable the software limited 300 km range as per the missile control treaty, and assuming they were to have the proper ISR assets (I guess when they get the C-295 AWACS), those Brahmos can reach the periphery of the Spratlys and if they are launched from ships not far from the coast, they can still reach deep into the Spratlys. That would not be a bad capability to have at all.
 
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Yes, 1 SU-27 was lost, there are 11 now. They are been upgraded to an standard similar to the SU-30 now.
So, they too can now use the missiles mentioned.

Brahmos is too heavy for the current SU-30MK2. I believe they are testing a lighter version that can be carried by the standard SU-30 (just 1 missile), but its not out yet, so for the SU-30MK2 ideally it has to be the Brahmos-M (mini), now called NG. It will be able to carry 3 of those, but have to wait a few years for that missile.
Well, it can carry 1 (just like it can handle the even heavier Moskit there)

su30_brahmos11.jpg


anh-8-brahmos2-1370338253323.jpg


brahmos-missile-on-su-30-mki.jpg


Yakhont with Su-33 Flanker D and mounting a centreline Kh-41 Moskit / Sunburn
000-Yakhont-Su-33-1S.jpg



The Svetlyak class doesn't carry missiles.
Correct, but it easily can. See Project 10411. Just like TT-400TP. In both cases, at the loss of ship's Ribs.
http://www.lina.lt/ships_10411.asp
russia5.jpg


2_phuong_an_lap_ten_lua_len_tau_phao_tt_400tp_viet_nam_2.jpg



The Osa class could be converted to use KH-35 (others have done it), but I'm not sure is worth it.
Out of curiosity, which navies have put Kh-35 on Osa's?

You forgot 1 anti ship missile which is actually very important. The air force has a good stock of the KH-59MK2, that one together with the Kh-31 would the best ones for the job. The KH-59MK2 has the best stand off range.
I do believe I did mention KH-59 in relation to Su-30?

850 km is just for the eastern part of the Spratly islands. The closest ones to the mainland start at less than 500 km from the Vietnamese coastline. The Brahmos missile actual range is not less than 500 km, so if Vietnam were to be able to disable the software limited 300 km range as per the missile control treaty, and assuming they were to have the proper ISR assets (I guess when they get the C-295 AWACS), those Brahmos can reach the periphery of the Spratlys and if they are launched from ships not far from the coast, they can still reach deep into the Spratlys. That would not be a bad capability to have at all.
I was refering to Brahmos equipped Flankers.

Here's the Russian Nanuchka, with P-120 Malakhit (P-15 Termit Styx for export) replaced by racks for Yakhont.
20070131174306.jpg



INS Rajput with 2x Brahmos replacing 1x P-15 Termit Styx )
F6sOO.jpg
 
I do believe I did mention KH-59 in relation to Su-30?

You mentioned: "Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME)"

The MK2 has 260 km range, so its particularly useful for Vietnam.

So, they too can now use the missiles mentioned.

Yes, they can carry the same anti ship missiles as the SU-30MK2

Well, it can carry 1 (just like it can handle the even heavier Moskit there)

su30_brahmos11.jpg


anh-8-brahmos2-1370338253323.jpg


brahmos-missile-on-su-30-mki.jpg


Yakhont with Su-33 Flanker D and mounting a centreline Kh-41 Moskit / Sunburn
000-Yakhont-Su-33-1S.jpg

Not really, The SU-30MKI requires airframe modification to strengthen the airframe (Which India is doing to 42 jets) in order to carry 1 Brahmos in the center pylon. The SU-30SM comes like that standard. The SU-33 already comes with such modification as standard.

The Brahmos "A" is the one that can be carried in the center pylon without airframe modifications. Brahmos A weights 500 kg less than standard Brahmos. That's the one that I mentioned before as been under testing. Vietnam could use that one until Brahmos NG is available.

Out of curiosity, which navies have put Kh-35 on Osa's?

I don't know what navies did it, but I have a picture with 2 quad KH-35 launchers and a 76 mm gun.

But I do have an issue posting pics, the service that I used to use to upload the pics to and then insert in PDF no longer works. Can you recommend one?
 


ANALYSIS JUNE 4, 2016
Cam Ranh port visits in strategic context

By Zachary Abuza and Nguyen Nhat Anh*


ON 2 May, the French amphibious assault ship FS Tonnerre arrived in the Cam Ranh International Port (CRIP) for a four day visit. It was the third international visit to the newly established CRIP, nee Cam Ranh Bay, following the mid-March visit of a Singaporean naval vessel and a mid-April visit by two Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force ships. These three visits reflect Vietnam’s strategic interests, most importantly, the development of an omni-directional foreign policy.


While much attention will be paid to President Obama’s visit to Vietnam this month, it is important to note both how far bilateral relations have come, but also how much they are only a piece of Vietnam’s overall strategic framework.


The decision to give Cam Ranh the moniker “International Port” was a strategic one. Hanoi has long been called on to open up the port to foreign vessels transiting the region, but wanted to make sure that it was not aimed at any one country. Thus the port, which is one of the finest deep-water ports in the entire region and is full of new construction after the inauguration such as a new berthing area, pier, quay wall, and was opened up to all on a “commercial basis.”


This is in line, if not a creative work around, with Hanoi’s “3 Nos” foreign policy (no alliances, no foreign military bases, and no policies that could be construed as being directed against any one state). The argument that any one foreign country could try to gain exclusive access to the port is nonsensical.


Indeed, in bilateral defense talks held at the end of March 2016, Vice Minister of Defense Nguyen Chi Vinh said that Vietnam had actively invited Chinese vessels to visit Vietnamese ports, including CRIP. Even though it was an unpopular move domestically, it signals the leadership’s intention that CRIP not be directed against any one country.


While it is clear that Vietnam-U.S. defense cooperation has deepened considerably over the last few years and will continue to do so, both sides seem to be content on the pace with which the relationship is moving for various reasons.


Vietnam clearly has a strategic interest in a more robust U.S. presence in the region, and has actively championed the right of U.S. Naval vessels to conduct freedom of navigation operations (FONOPs), including past features that Vietnam itself claims and occupies. Vietnam also looks to the United States as the only thing between China and the declaration of an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ).


However, although Hanoi is keen to further deepen ties with the United States, there remain many real impediments, including history, the continued legacy of Agent Orange, and the enormous costs associated with the cleanup of Bien Hoa, and criticism over human rights. Indeed, this year, Hanoi responded to the U.S. State Department’s annual human rights report, calling it “biased,” something it has not done and downplayed in the past few years. Furthermore, despite its embrace of the Trans Pacific Partnership, Hanoi is cautious about growing too close to the United States in the security realm, for fear of provoking a harsh reaction from China, hence its intention of displaying CRIP as a neutral, open-to-all port.


From 22-24 May, President Barack Obama will visit Vietnam, reciprocating the historic July 2015 visit to the United States by Vietnam Communist Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong. While many hope that President Obama will fully lift the arms embargo, others argue that Vietnam simply has too many human rights abuses to merit a full lifting. Indeed, his Secretary of Defense recently endorsed lifting the embargo in a Congressional hearing with Senator John McCain, a long proponent of ending the embargo. In early May, right before Obama’s visit, Vietnam hosted a defense symposium to which top U.S. arm corporations, such as Boeing and Lockheed Martin, were invited. This will be more of a symbolic gesture, but in diplomacy, especially in such a historically fraught relationship, symbols matter.


But even still, limits exist. There are longstanding concerns about selling advanced technology to Vietnam for fear that it will be shared with Russia. Again, human right issues also interfere with the decision. Nevertheless, this is not to say that Vietnam’s purchase of U.S. weapons is impossible.


The one area that does seem ripe for sales is maritime aviation capabilities, something that the U.S. does have a stark comparative advantage in. Vietnam has expressed an interest in a stripped down P-3 Orion. In April 2016, a group of Vietnamese naval officers visited U.S. Patrol Squadron 47 in Hawaii and notably toured a P-3C in order to better understand its capability. Vietnam has also seen the P-3 in action in January 2016 during a joint HADR exercise between Vietnam and Japan. Boeing has suggested that one of its Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) suites would fit Vietnam’s needs.


Despite the regular presence of U.S. Naval vessels, which spend some 700 ship days a year in the South China Sea, and the recent visit by the USS Stennis to the Philippines, and the recent refusal of port access in Hong Kong by China, to date no U.S. vessel has called on CRIP.


Furthermore, Vietnamese rules stipulate that foreign naval vessels, including those of the U.S., can only call on Vietnamese ports once a year. Nevertheless, U.S. logistical ships have visited the port before for repair and maintenance service. In June 2012 USNS Richard E. Byrd, a Military Sealift Command supply ship, stopped at Cam Ranh’s repair facilities, and then-Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta gave a speech on board the moored ship, promising a stronger relationship between the two nations. The U.S. Navy has used their port call annually since 2009, albeit not at Cam Ranh Bay. Furthermore, when reporting the inauguration of CRIP, Vietnamese official media mentioned the possibility of U.S. aircraft carriers calling on the port by mentioning that CRIP can “accommodate military and civilian ships like aircraft carriers of up to 110,000 DWT (deadweight tonnage).” Hence, it is likely that a U.S. Navy ship will call on Cam Ranh Bay in the near future.


In addition, the U.S. government has awarded Vietnam $40.1 million in FY2015-16 as part of its Maritime Security Initiative in order to “bolster its maritime Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) and command and control within Vietnam’s maritime agencies.” The funding will also support the purchase of maritime defense equipment and support training and bilateral HADR exercises to improve interoperability.


The visit by the Singaporean naval vessel should have come as no surprise. ASEAN – for all of its faults and limitations – remains the cornerstone of Vietnamese foreign policy. It works assiduously to counter China’s aggressive moves to divide the grouping, especially ahead of the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s expected ruling. Vietnam and Singapore have pledged to deepen ties and have suggested future bi and multi-lateral defense exercises.


Soon after, Vietnamese naval vessels and special forces soldiers participated in a regional counter-terrorism and anti-piracy exercise with Singapore, Brunei, Thailand and Indonesia.


Interestingly, Vietnam sent HQ-381, a BPS-500 type missile corvette instead of its Gepard frigates. The HQ-318 was the first missile corvette built domestically in Vietnam in 1999, and it underwent capability upgrades in 2014. Vietnam has also increased its participation in multilateral exercises, including sending Hospital Ship 561 to the 2016 Komodo naval exercises in Indonesia in April 2016. Vietnam has extended maritime cooperation to entirely new partners as well, including a five day on-shore multilateral course by the Royal Navy’s Maritime Warfare School on EEZ enforcement.


The visit by the French ship capped a week of the re-emergence of France as a player in Asian security, with the agreement in principle to supply Australia with 12 Barracuda submarines; beating out the Japanese Soryu-class. But the presence of one of France’s largest vessels at CRIP also suggests the potential for defense deals with Vietnam, which has hinted that it wants to reduce its dependence on Russia for its advanced weaponry.


Vietnam has already purchased military lift planes from the French-led Airbus consortium.


SIPRI, in its arm transfer database, shows that Vietnam has taken delivery of Exocet anti-ship and MICA anti-air missiles from France for its Dutch SIGMA-9814 corvettes; yet, as the negotiation for the corvettes seems to have been suspended, the fate of these missiles is uncertain.


Reuters also reported that the Vietnamese military is currently in talk with Dassault on the Rafale multirole fighter as a possible replace for its antiquated but numerous MiG-21s. However, the Rafale’s high cost makes this procurement less likely.


But it is the relationship with Japan that portends the greatest potential. There have now been six high level strategic dialogues, and Japanese ships have made some nine port calls, the majority of which happened in the last five years. There are routine high level engagements. Although Japan has not sold any weapons to Vietnam, in 2014 it pledged to transfer six maritime patrol craft; the last were delivered in November 2015.


The potential for deeper ties is clearly there. A meeting between the respective foreign Ministers in early May 2016 led to calls for deepened defense relations as well as the provision of more maritime patrol craft. As Japan experiences the loss of the Soryu class vessels sale to Australia, Tokyo still needs a major arms sale to break into the world of the global arms industry. But while Japanese equipment is expensive and r technology transfer is unlikely, the defense relationship, including recent HADR operations, is growing so quickly that it might become a natural byproduct.


Both countries have called for a rules-based system in the South China Sea. Both would like each other to step up their respective operations in the South China Sea. Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc recently called on Shinzo Abe’s government to make “effective efforts” in the South China Sea, but there are limits. Vietnam in unlikely to be overly confrontational towards China. And while many have called for Japan to join U.S. FONOPs, that is unlikely, simply as China has the ability to escalate its operations in the contested waters around the Senkaku/Diaoyutai Islands.


Intercepts of Chinese planes in Japan’s southwest quadrant alone already account for over 50 percent of overall intercepts of foreign aircraft. In 2015, there were 571 intercepts of Chinese planes, a 23 percent increase from 2014, taxing the Japanese military.


Despite these improvements and deepening cooperation with new defense partners, it is the bilateral defense relationship with Russia that remains the strongest. Newly elected Minister of National Defense Ngo Xuan Lich made his first overseas trip to Russia, where he reiterated that Vietnam will continue to rely on Russia for much of its weaponry and advanced training. Newly elected Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc will also make Russia his first foreign destination in mid-May, ahead of President Obama’s visit.


Vietnam’s third Gepard class frigate was recently floated in a Russian shipyard, with the fourth to be launched soon and delivered by September. There are reports that Vietnam will order another two, a total of six, while it has increased production of Molniya class missile ships under license from Russia. Five out of six Kilo submarines that Vietnam ordered from Russia have been delivered, and Russia is helping Vietnam construct the submarine base at Cam Ranh as part of the deal.


Vietnam’s recent announcement that it was moving the Ministry of National Defense’s Ba Son Shipyard to a new location, increasing its production capabilities to 2,000 dead weight tons, also suggests increased domestic production under further Russian license.


When Vietnam purportedly “invited” Russia back to Cam Ranh, it should not be taken as meaning a reopening of their Cold War era naval base, which closed in 1991, but simply as a commercial user of CRIP facilities. Nonetheless, in 1993 Moscow and Hanoi signed a 25 year agreement that allowed Russia to continue using a facility in Cam Ranh Bay for limited signals intelligence gathering. More recently Russia has deployed aerial refueling tankers from CRIP to support bombers that have flown “provocatively” near US airspace in Guam. U.S. calls on Vietnam to restrict such operations have fallen on deaf ears. Furthermore, in 2014, the procedure for Russian ships calling on Cam Ranh Bay was simplified: they only have to notify Vietnamese authority before doing so.


While there have been occasional reports that Vietnam wants to diversify its sources of advanced weaponry, the reality is Russian equipment is tried and true, very cost effective, and the Vietnamese have long trained on it. Most importantly, the Russians transfer a lot of technology to Vietnam, which produces an array of missiles and ships under license. Vietnam’s relationship with India, also gives it access to the advanced Brahmos anti-ship missiles developed with Russia. This is an enduring strategic defense relationship.


Yet, small diplomatic rifts between Vietnam and Russia have emerged, in particular over Moscow’s support for Beijing over the South China Sea and Permanent Court of Arbitration’s forthcoming ruling. In April 2016, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov commented in an interview that claimants in the South China Sea dispute should resolve the matter among themselves and not attempt to internationalize the issue. Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs immediately rebutted Lavrov by announcing that the dispute should be “settled by all countries concerned,” not simply through bilateral negotiation. Notably, Lich’s visit to Russia occurred only two weeks after this incident. It should be closely watched whether this diplomatic rift will negatively affect Moscow-Hanoi defense relationship in any way.


In sum, since the 12th Party Congress in January 2016, and the early election of key state leaders to their posts ahead of President Obama’s visit, Vietnam has continued with their defense policy: a cautious attempt to bolster defense relations with regional and extra-regional states, the gradual diversification of its arms suppliers, and partaking in joint exercises. While it has brought a lot of new equipment online, giving the country unprecedented power projection capabilities, it is yet to be seen whether they have developed a corresponding doctrine.


While no one should underestimate Vietnam’s will and capability to act in self-defense, that robust strategic culture has faltered at the hands of China’s maritime-militia and Coast Guard sovereignty enforcement operations and island construction.


However, as Vietnam’s capability improve, it remains cautious about provoking a harsh reaction from Beijing. Yet, at the end of the day, Hanoi’s primary concern continues to be regime survival. The government responded quickly when environmental protests went national, and the regime seems very concerned regarding its ability to control its very wired and socially active population.


* Zachary Abuza, PhD, is a Professor at the National War College where he specializes in Southeast Asian security issues. The views expressed here are his own, and not the views of the Department of Defense or National War College.

Nguyen Nhat Anh is a student of International Political Economy at the University of Texas at Dallas.
 
I would add to that that those purchasing deals probably include money under the table, Its the only explanation for the fact that they keep getting Gepards. Either that or they are extremely incompetent.

Its becoming very clear that the cause for the mass fish deaths is being covered up.

The cause of mass animal deaths (especially those living water) can be quite difficult to determine. Take the case of the mass Asian carp fish deaths in Kentucky a few years back. The experts were baffled, and could only theorized that the fish died because the water was highly oxigenated (!) Why other fish species didn't die was un-explainable.
 
You mentioned: "Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME)"

The MK2 has 260 km range, so its particularly useful for Vietnam.

But nothing of this would derail my main points. Brahmos is supersonice, Kh-59 subsonic and so Brahmos would be providing additional capability.

http://vietnamnews24h.net/cobra-vietnam-submerged-enemy-warships-killer-kh-59m/

Not really, The SU-30MKI requires airframe modification to strengthen the airframe (Which India is doing to 42 jets) in order to carry 1 Brahmos in the center pylon. The SU-30SM comes like that standard. The SU-33 already comes with such modification as standard.
That would be a relatively minor investment e.g. compared to other options.

"The required modifications in SU-30 MKI for interface with the missile launcher and integration with the weapon control of the aircraft are being carried out together with Indian Air Force and Sukhoi Design Bureau."
http://www.brahmos.com/content.php?id=10&sid=10

"The BrahMos-A is a modified air-launched variant of the missile which will arm the Su-30MKI of the air force as a standoff weapon. To reduce the missile's weight to 2.55 tons, many modifications were made like using a smaller booster, adding fins for airborne stability after launch, and relocating the connector. It can be released from the height of 500 to 14,000 meters (1,640 to 46,000 ft). After release, the missile free falls for 100–150 meters, then goes into a cruise phase at 14,000 meters and finally the terminal phase at 15 meters. BrahMos Aerospace plans to deliver the missile to the IAF in 2015, where it is expected to arm at least three squadrons. An Su-30MKI is able to only carry one BrahMos missile."
"The air-launched version for the Indian Air Force was ready for testing in 2008. An expert committee from the DRDO and the Indian Air Force (IAF) had ruled out any structural modifications to the Sukhoi Su-30MKI to carry the missile"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos

"The launch of BrahMos from Su-30MKI comprises several phases. Structural modifications have been carried out in the aircraft to integrate BrahMos on to it," explained [MD & CEO of BrahMos Aerospace Sudhir Kumar] Mishra.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...at-jet-sudhir-mishra/articleshow/50848753.cms

Incidentally, this doesn't sound like significant structural modifications, if any, to me. I can't find details on those modifications. I did find this:

"The Su-30MKI can presently accommodate only one BrahMos in its underbelly without any structural modifications to the airframe. But since the IAF has specified that it wants two underwing-mounted BrahMos missiles to be carried by a Su-30MKI, IAF-specific structural modifications to the Su-30MKI airframe are required."
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.nl/2011/05/super-su-30mki-from-air-dominance-to.html (see 'comments' section)

The Brahmos "A" is the one that can be carried in the center pylon without airframe modifications. Brahmos A weights 500 kg less than standard Brahmos. That's the one that I mentioned before as been under testing. Vietnam could use that one until Brahmos NG is available.
As I indicated, a single 'regular' airlaunched Brahmos on Flanker, more if/when Brahmos-M/NG available.

I don't know what navies did it, but I have a picture with 2 quad KH-35 launchers and a 76 mm gun.

But I do have an issue posting pics, the service that I used to use to upload the pics to and then insert in PDF no longer works. Can you recommend one?[/QUOTE]

It probably is not an OSA (project 205, 1960 onwards, 400+ hulls) but a similar, modified Matka class hydrofoil missile boat (project 206.6, 1977 onwards, 12 hulls). These boats are the descendants of the Osa-class missile boat and are in fact a heavily modified version of the Turya-class torpedo boat (project 206M, 1972 onwards, 51 hulls). Of 12 completed, 9 remained with Russia in the 1990s, 3 currently in service. At least 1 unit modified with Kh-35.

R-44 serves as a developmental ship for the Black Sea Fleet, and was the first vessel anywhere to carry the SS-N-25 “Switchblade” missile, in two quad-canisters. These were removed in 2000 but re-installed in 2003. In 1998, the SP-521 combat data system was installed. R-44 also has the AK-630М1-2 Roy CIWS which is two 30 mm gatling guns superimposed on each other, in place of the AK-630. More recently, the ship has been seen with no “Drum Tilt” radar and a large deckhouse between the bridge and mast.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matka-class_missile_boat#Project_206.6

Project 206 OSA-I/OSA-II
205u.gif

Type+206+comparison.png


7D77D9A1318747E5A2BEB2D0256CAEA4.gif




56854dceb26e.jpg


ship_2477.jpg


r44.jpg


Hydrofoil in action.
206m.jpg
 
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