Vietnam Defence Forum

[Gabriel92]

Thank you, not cheap, almost $3 million at current rate.
How recent is that list?

If i'm not wrong,the PZH2000 costs $4-5M.
So,for the price of 1 PZH2000,you can almost get 2 CAESAR.
(We should wait confirmation of the deal though.)

 

[Carlosa]

If i'm not wrong,the PZH2000 costs $4-5M.
So,for the price of 1 PZH2000,you can almost get 2 CAESAR.

No, no, that's apples and oranges, the PZH2000 is supposed to be much more expensive, its a different type, totally self contained and much more mobile. Truck mounted can't compared to tracked vehicle.

I'm not sure about some of the prices in that list, they seemed way low, examples:
Mica at 600,000 euros, but I understand its about $3 million.
Exocet at 850,000 euros, but I understand its about $4-5 million (block 3).
Rafale at 65 million euros, but I understand its over $100 million.
Aster 30 at 1.4 million euros, but I understand its about 3 million.

ok. in any case, the caesar will be the most powerful howitzer than anything we currently have in inventory.
View attachment 205821

The Caesar at $3 million a piece makes me wonder why VN didn't developed a truck mounted version of the 152 mm gun that it currently produces (kind of like they did with the 105 mm gun). The specs probably would not be quite as good, but it would be a lot cheaper and another issue is that Caesar is 155 mm caliber which is not currently used in VN, but if they do the self production, it would be 152 mm.

@Yorozuya makes sense?

 

[luoyue]

Who knows, the euro could be below $1 in a few months' time. There is good chance for import weapon from NATO.

 

[Viet]

No, no, that's apples and oranges, the PZH2000 is supposed to be much more expensive, its a different type, totally self contained and much more mobile. Truck mounted can't compared to tracked vehicle.

I'm not sure about some of the prices in that list, they seemed way low, examples:
Mica at 600,000 euros, but I understand its about $3 million.
Exocet at 850,000 euros, but I understand its about $4-5 million (block 3).
Rafale at 65 million euros, but I understand its over $100 million.
Aster 30 at 1.4 million euros, but I understand its about 3 million.



The Caesar at $3 million a piece makes me wonder why VN didn't developed a truck mounted version of the 152 mm gun that it currently produces (kind of like they did with the 105 mm gun). The specs probably would not be quite as good, but it would be a lot cheaper and another issue is that Caesar is 155 mm caliber which is not currently used in VN, but if they do the self production, it would be 152 mm.

@Yorozuya makes sense?

theoretically we can self produce howitzers. but what we lack of is the famous ecosystem: accurate guidance system for the cannons, supported by GPS and drones.

vietnam media reports the news. seems the purchase is confirmed: 18 ceasar guns.
Việt Nam đặt mua siêu pháo Caesar 155mm của Pháp - DVO - Báo Đất Việt

 

[William Hung]

No, no, that's apples and oranges, the PZH2000 is supposed to be much more expensive, its a different type, totally self contained and much more mobile. Truck mounted can't compared to tracked vehicle.

I'm not sure about some of the prices in that list, they seemed way low, examples:
Mica at 600,000 euros, but I understand its about $3 million.
Exocet at 850,000 euros, but I understand its about $4-5 million (block 3).
Rafale at 65 million euros, but I understand its over $100 million.
Aster 30 at 1.4 million euros, but I understand its about 3 million.

Maybe that expensive price for Viet Nam includes some special "package" for the MoD. Maybe we can ask the Indonesian bro and sis if they know how much they paid for their Exocet+MICA+Smart-S. @Indos @madokafc, etc?

The Caesar at $3 million a piece makes me wonder why VN didn't developed a truck mounted version of the 152 mm gun that it currently produces (kind of like they did with the 105 mm gun). The specs probably would not be quite as good, but it would be a lot cheaper and another issue is that Caesar is 155 mm caliber which is not currently used in VN, but if they do the self production, it would be 152 mm.

@Yorozuya makes sense?

It doesn't make sense to me to buy artillery systems that cost $3 million per unit. If Viet Nam is rich, then by all means. But Viet Nam is dirt poor and needs to spend money on other important things like setting up a proper C4ISR system. I mean, Viet Nam is already developing their own artillery system like you mentioned so why spend its limited budget on other costly artillery? Plus it looks like the PLA has no intention to send their ground force across the border anyway.

 

[Carlosa]

theoretically we can self produce howitzers. but what we lack of is the famous ecosystem: accurate guidance system for the cannons, supported by GPS and drones.

I don't think so since Vietnam manufactures drones and GPS equipment is easy to produce.
Maybe someone is getting a red envelope from the Caesar.

Maybe that expensive price for Viet Nam includes some special "package" for the MoD. Maybe we can ask the Indonesian bro and sis if they know how much they paid for their Exocet+MICA+Smart-S. @Indos @madokafc, etc?
.

I already asked Madokafc and she said about $3.8 million including tech transfer.

It doesn't make sense to me to buy artillery systems that cost $3 million per unit. If Viet Nam is rich, then by all means. But Viet Nam is dirt poor and needs to spend money on other important things like setting up a proper C4ISR system. I mean, Viet Nam is already developing their own artillery system like you mentioned so why spend its limited budget on other costly artillery? Plus it looks like the PLA has no intention to send their ground force across the border anyway.

Exactly, that's my whole point, a land war is unlikely, I would use that money to buy 6 SU-30MKV.

 

[Viet]

I don't think so since Vietnam manufactures drones and GPS equipment is easy to produce.
Maybe someone is getting a red envelope from the Caesar.


I already asked Madokafc and she said about $3 million including tech transfer.

the ceasar gun that vietnam purchases not only can target troop concentrations, but heavy armored enemy tanks. as for red evelope, the ministry for arms acquisition is now under supervision of the communist party chief office. so it is no longer easy as it used to be.

Việt Nam mua lượng lớn pháo tự hành diệt cả xe tăng

 

[Carlosa]

the ceasar gun that vietnam purchases not only can target troop concentrations, but heavy armored enemy tanks. as for red evelope, the ministry for arms acquisition is now under supervision of the communist party chief office. so it is no longer easy as it used to be.

Việt Nam mua lượng lớn pháo tự hành diệt cả xe tăng
View attachment 206223

Any 152 - 155 mm shell that falls on top of a tank will kill it, there was plenty of that in Ukraine. If the shells use terminal guidance, that's a different story, but I have not seen that about Caesar and still, just the munitions even if they are smart munitions are not enough reason to buy a system, that can be independently developed or purchased.

 

[Viet]

Maybe that expensive price for Viet Nam includes some special "package" for the MoD. Maybe we can ask the Indonesian bro and sis if they know how much they paid for their Exocet+MICA+Smart-S. @Indos @madokafc, etc?




It doesn't make sense to me to buy artillery systems that cost $3 million per unit. If Viet Nam is rich, then by all means. But Viet Nam is dirt poor and needs to spend money on other important things like setting up a proper C4ISR system. I mean, Viet Nam is already developing their own artillery system like you mentioned so why spend its limited budget on other costly artillery? Plus it looks like the PLA has no intention to send their ground force across the border anyway.

difficult to say why we buy such modern french howitzer. maybe the people of the ground force say it is time now that we get something. the guys and boys of the navy and airforce usually get everything they want.

 

[William Hung]

I don't think so since Vietnam manufactures drones and GPS equipment is easy to produce.
Maybe someone is getting a red envelope from the Caesar.

But I think Viet Nam needs to spend more money to develop more sophisticated drones and more importantly, integrate them into a C4ISR system, which Viet Nam currently doesn't have.

Exactly, that's my whole point, a land war is unlikely, I would use that money to buy 6 SU-30MKV.

Yea, their artillery force is already decent enough given the relatively low risk of a land war compared to a naval skirmish, etc.

vietnam media reports the news. seems the purchase is confirmed: 18 ceasar guns.
Việt Nam đặt mua siêu pháo Caesar 155mm của Pháp - DVO - Báo Đất Việt

That's nothing new, they are just quoting the same source that was first posted by Gabriel. There are Viet journalists that lurks around here.

 

[Carlosa]

as for red evelope, the ministry for arms acquisition is now under supervision of the communist party chief office. so it is no longer easy as it used to be.]

I feel very reassured now to learn that red envelops are no longer possible since they are supervised by the communist party chief office since they have such a great reputation fighting corruption.

 

[William Hung]

the ceasar gun that vietnam purchases not only can target troop concentrations, but heavy armored enemy tanks. as for red evelope, the ministry for arms acquisition is now under supervision of the communist party chief office. so it is no longer easy as it used to be.

Việt Nam mua lượng lớn pháo tự hành diệt cả xe tăng
View attachment 206223

difficult to say why we buy such modern french howitzer. maybe the people of the ground force say it is time now that we get something. the guys and boys of the navy and airforce usually get everything they want.

Remember I once told you that it is very unlikely that the PLA would send their ground force across the border and I think the news about the road construction cancellation has just confirmed that the PLA has no intention to do so in the near future. So it's better to spend VN's limited budget on something else more important.

I feel very reassured now to learn that red envelops are no longer possible since they are supervised by the communist party chief office since they have such a great reputation fighting corruption.

That's not good enough. You need more assurance by inviting comrade Bo Xilai to oversee this supervision and advice on the anti-corruption fight.

 

[Carlosa]

But I think Viet Nam needs to spend more money to develop more sophisticated drones and more importantly, integrate them into a C4ISR system, which Viet Nam currently doesn't have.

Viettel seems to have a pretty decent drone and frankly, it would be no problem for Viettel to integrate it into a C4ISR system, after all, Viettel did the Air force air defense - monitoring network with excellent results and they are working on the C4ISR system. I think the problem is more like for the higher ups at the MOD to make a decision about making things in VN, I feel they don't have enough confidence about VN even that the Viettel success with the air defense network proves otherwise.

Lets not forget that typical way of thinking in Vietnam is that things made in Vietnam are of bad quality and is always better to import, so until that thinking changes, I think we are not going to see many things made in Vietnam.

 

[Viet]

I feel very reassured now to learn that red envelops are no longer possible since they are supervised by the communist party chief office since they have such a great reputation fighting corruption.

I sense you don´t place much trust on the system

 

[Carlosa]

I sense you don´t place much trust on the system

I live in Vietnam, I see the results of the system everyday and when it comes to fighting corruption, the results are very well known to everybody here.