Vietnam Defence Forum

[Aqsuperman]

In term of subs in Southeast Asia , VN currently hold the numerous and most modern subs , the rest either have no subs at all or in the process of buying ones . While some countries do possessed subs before , they are old and have limited capability ( like the Archer )

 

[William Hung]

^^^

In terms of numbers, Singapore currently has the largest submarine fleet in South East Asia: 4 Challenger class and 2 upgraded Archer class. Plus 2 modern Type 218SG currently on order.

VietNam has only been operating the Kilos since last year while Singapore has been operating submarines over a decade ago. Viet Nam currently does not even possess a sub support/rescue ship, it had to sign an agreement with Singapore to come and assist if a Viet Kilo get into an accident. Also, the Singaporean Archer has been upgraded with modern sensors and AIP.

at the "have limited capability like the Archer" comment.

 

[Aqsuperman]

Wrong Singapore retired 2 of them on 11 March (Challenger and Centurion) , and im talking about the current number , if you do that type of math (including retired and on order) then VN have 6 Kilo and 2 Yugo , and even after the updated , Archer still have to rely on torpedo while Kilo can use both torpedo and anti-ship missle (Club-S) , and finally Archer hulls are more than 20 years sold (Ex Swedish since 87 )...........there is a limit to how much a upgrade can help , sure its may be still useful but unless you chop it out and replace everything , the weapon and navigation system cant compete on pair with later subs , especially Improved Kilo for VN (636MV) that contains GE2-01 radar and MGK 400E sonar that made it even stronger than original Kilo .........and im talking about the fleet strengh not about search and rescue abilities

 

[William Hung]

Wrong Singapore retired 2 of them on 11 March (Challenger and Centurion) , and im talking about the current number ,

Oh you're right, 2 Challengers has just been retired, my mistake. But still, that's a total of 4 submarines (2 Challenger + 2 Archer) which is more than the current 3 Kilos in VN.

and even after the updated , Archer still have to rely on torpedo while Kilo can use both torpedo and anti-ship missle (Club-S) , and finally Archer hulls are more than 20 years sold (Ex Swedish since 87 )...........there is a limit to how much a upgrade can help , sure its may be still useful but unless you chop it out and replace everything , the weapon and navigation system cant compete on pair with later subs , especially Improved Kilo for VN (636MV) that contains GE2-01 radar and MGK 400E sonar that made it even stronger than original Kilo .........and im talking about the fleet strengh not about search and rescue abilities

As for the Archer VS. Kilo, both has advantages and disadvantages. Kilo can launch Clubs, Archers has AIP, etc. Archer has been modernised with new sonars, etc. Which one is better? Neither of us really know until both of them duke it out.

But in terms of submarine fleet capability as a whole (equipments+crew), I'd put my money on the Singaporean since they have been operating theirs for over 15 years while VN has only been operating the Kilo since last year.

I mentioned the sub rescue support agreement to highlight how noob the Vietnamese fleet are. Meaning, VN still need to rely on Singapore for basic things like sub rescue operation.

 

[Aqsuperman]

1/ One thing i forgot to mention that 2 of our Yugo still in active duty- so that 5 in total
2/ Before the actual purchase in 2009 , Our crew have been in Russia for 4-6 years (maybe longer for specialist tasks) to learn how to operate the subs (both in class room and in actual subs) plus the new tech and skills , in my view they are pretty familiar with the subs before their delivery , and my point is : experience in a old car ( a 20 years old ones :3 ) cant help you beat a new car
3/ We are also buiding many specialize ships to rescue our subs in time of need (I do have a picture of 1 type but If I post it i might got an ***-kicking by C2 so sorrry ) In the end of day , as long as our safety protocols are met , there will be no need of a rescue operation

 

[liubang]

So how would you rank the submarine types that in existence among the ASEAN and those that are being purchase now. Will the Indonesian subs are better since if going by dollar amounts, it seemed like their is more expensive (if I recalled correctly).

Also, with all these strategic/comprehensive relationship, what is Dung going for?? Some richer countries is more obvious like India's credit, Japan's donation, to Australia's training. What is the ultimate objective for all these diplomatic missions?

 

[NarThoD]

So how would you rank the submarine types that in existence among the ASEAN and those that are being purchase now. Will the Indonesian subs are better since if going by dollar amounts, it seemed like their is more expensive (if I recalled correctly).

Nah i admit we're still lacking Subs to guard our vast ocean, but buying three and a license to build it locally can be a huge step for our navy. Ideally we're need minimal 12 subs.

 

[Aqsuperman]

I always prefer firepower :3 a subs now must have ability to mount missiles attack , having that ability will help them engage long range enemy from safe home water , "guerrilla on the sea" of course strong sonar and steath are also required

 

[Viet]

@Viet @Thao Nguyen @Carlosa @NiceGuy @Aqsuperman

According to this news,Vietnam ordered (despite russian pressures) a first batch of 18 CAESAR artillery systems. (108 planned).

L'industrie terrestre face aux nouvelles concurrences-TTU

why french and not german howitzer?
the german gun (panzerhaubitzer 2000) would be a much better choice for our army, in terms of fire rate, accuracy, distance and protection for the crew.

Nurses

 

[Gabriel92]

why french and not german howitzer?
the german gun (panzerhaubitzer 2000) would be a much better choice for our army, in terms of fire rate, accuracy, distance and protection for the crew.
View attachment 205775

The CAESAR has a range of 4.5 km to 50km,can fire 6-8 rounds/minute,it can be transported by aircrafts such as the C130,and if i'm not wrong less expensive than the PZH2000.
The CAESAR would be a better choice for Vietnam.
(A unit of eight Caesar self-propelled artillery vehicles can dispense more than 1t of projectiles in one minute..)

 

[Viet]

The CAESAR has a range of 4.5 km to 50km,can fire 6-8 rounds/minute,it can be transported by aircrafts such as the C130,and if i'm not wrong less expensive than the PZH2000.
The CAESAR would be a better choice for Vietnam.
(A unit of eight Caesar self-propelled artillery vehicles can dispense more than 1t of projectiles in one minute..)

ok. in any case, the caesar will be the most powerful howitzer than anything we currently have in inventory.

 

[William Hung]

1/ One thing i forgot to mention that 2 of our Yugo still in active duty- so that 5 in total
2/ Before the actual purchase in 2009 , Our crew have been in Russia for 4-6 years (maybe longer for specialist tasks) to learn how to operate the subs (both in class room and in actual subs) plus the new tech and skills , in my view they are pretty familiar with the subs before their delivery , and my point is : experience in a old car ( a 20 years old ones :3 ) cant help you beat a new car
3/ We are also buiding many specialize ships to rescue our subs in time of need (I do have a picture of 1 type but If I post it i might got an ***-kicking by C2 so sorrry ) In the end of day , as long as our safety protocols are met , there will be no need of a rescue operation

Yugo class sub..... Haizz.

 

[Carlosa]

The CAESAR has a range of 4.5 km to 50km,can fire 6-8 rounds/minute,it can be transported by aircrafts such as the C130,and if i'm not wrong less expensive than the PZH2000.
The CAESAR would be a better choice for Vietnam.
(A unit of eight Caesar self-propelled artillery vehicles can dispense more than 1t of projectiles in one minute..)

Do you know how much is the typical cost of Caesar per unit?

 

[Gabriel92]

Do you know how much is the typical cost of Caesar per unit?

Accoring to this,the unit cost of the CAESAR is € 2.5M

 

[Carlosa]

Accoring to this,the unit cost of the CAESAR is € 2.5M

Thank you, not cheap, almost $3 million at current rate.
How recent is that list?