Vietnam Defence Forum

[Carlosa]

I posted the news some time ago. it is a sort of small OTH radars that can be installed on warships:

Coast Watcher 100 | Thales Group
specs: wavelength 10m, over the horizon radar, capable to detect targets such as

• stealth vessel at a distance of 45 km with radar reflector size (RCS) of 1m2
• aircraft at a distance of 90 km at low altitude of 170m with RCS of 25m2
• fishing vessel with RCS of 50m2 with 3m height above sea level at 145 km distance
• warship with RCS of 10,000m2, 10m height above sea level at a distance of 170 km
• can be installed on next generation of warships as Sigma class

View attachment 152568 View attachment 152569

I had a feeling that you were thinking about these radars since those are the only French radars in VN, but those don't belong to the category of OTH radars.

 

[Carlosa]

Hmmmm a few problem though:

1. Can VietNam afford to buy and operate these OTH radars?
2. Will Russia dare to sell them to VN? China will be very sensitive about this.
3. I doubt Russia and Israel will cooperate to make this radar be integrated with the Arrow.

I actually think the best option is to host a US forward base X-band radar. The same type that Israel is using. Not only can VN rely on this radar, it can also rely on US satellites for early detection and warning (during the missile boost phase). Frankly, I just don't think VN has enough money and resources to purchase and operate this kind of complete BMD system all by themselves. They must rely on the US or Russia, but I doubt that Russia will cooperate with VN due to their relationship with China.

But this is why I think VN needs two system just in case the US pulls out. The Arrow/SPYDER system to integrate with the US regional BMD system. The S-300/Buk/Pantsir as a non-western backup system.

I'm actually doing some readings on Asian BMD system right now. I've read that the US had planned to setup a forward base X-band radar in South East Asia. The analyst was saying it's likely to be the Philippines.
But after reading that CRS report, I've come to conclude that the US have 3 locations in mind: the Philippines, Singapore and VN.

Actually, they are not as expensive as you think, that Voronezh-DM is consider quite cheap to build and operate when compared to the old OTH radars (It also requires a lot less electric power). The American ones on the other hand are very expensive. I think VN can afford it. Russia is installing lots of OTH radars of different types including the Container and the Pillbox.

I don't know if Russia or US would supply those systems, difficult to say. If USA gives or sells those systems to VN that would also provoke a chinese reaction, so I don't know which alternative is better. I very much doubt that VN will allow US to install that radar in VN territory as a US radar.

Having 2 complementary systems is definitely a good idea, I'm all for that. I'd like to see VN getting more air defense systems from Israel. Don't forget David's Sling, that's a nice one, interceptor missile with a dual seeker. Difficult to escape from that.

 

[William Hung]

Actually, they are not as expensive as you think, that Voronezh-DM is consider quite cheap to build and operate when compared to the old OTH radars (It also requires a lot less electric power). The American ones on the other hand are very expensive. I think VN can afford it. Russia is installing lots of OTH radars of different types including the Container and the Pillbox.

That's great if they are cheap. But I still doubt if Russia would be willing to sell them, BMD system can help make nuclear deterence obsolete. Thats why all the big powers like Russia and China is making a lot of complain against US BMD system across Europe and Asia. Plus I dont know if Russian radar can be integrated with Arrow?

I don't know if Russia or US would supply those systems, difficult to say. If USA gives or sells those systems to VN that would also provoke a chinese reaction, so I don't know which alternative is better. I very much doubt that VN will allow US to install that radar in VN territory as a US radar.

US definitely dont care about China's complaints, thats why they continue to setup BMD system in SKorea, Taiwan, etc. Thats their purposes, to neutralise China's second strike capability.

I've read another analysis that one of the US goal in setting up BMD around Russia and China is to reduce its dependacy on its own domestic nuke arsenal as its second strike capabilities.

The regional BMD system is also setup to maintain US legitimacy as a reliable treaty ally. Singapore and Australia would be happy to have US BMD system set up in VN and the Philippines as those would be their first line of defence against Chinese BM.

Having 2 complementary systems is definitely a good idea, I'm all for that. I'd like to see VN getting more air defense systems from Israel. Don't forget David's Sling, that's a nice one, interceptor missile with a dual seeker. Difficult to escape from that.

How much does a David Sling system cost?

 

[Carlosa]

How much does a David Sling system cost?

I don't know, still in development, I think it will deploy in 1 or 2 years. Arrow 3 same situation, 3 years to finish development.

 

[Carlosa]

That's great if they are cheap.

Another OTH radar that is even cheaper and is even mobile is the Container OTH system, this one has a 3000 km range:

 

[William Hung]

Another OTH radar that is even cheaper and is even mobile is the Container OTH system, this one has a 3000 km range:

View attachment 152700 View attachment 152701 View attachment 152702 View attachment 152703

Those looks nice, but I still have my doubts whether they can be integrated with the Arrow system. These OTH radar needs to be integrated so that the Arrow can track and calculate the interception coordinate as quickly as possible.

I dont think its a good idea to have the two system isolated and I seriously doubt the Russian would cooperate with Israel to integrate the two systems together.

 

[Carlosa]

Those looks nice, but I still have my doubts whether they can be integrated with the Arrow system. These OTH radar needs to be integrated so that the Arrow can track and calculate the interception coordinate as quickly as possible.

I dont think its a good idea to have the two system isolated and I seriously doubt the Russian would cooperate with Israel to integrate the two systems together.

I agree with you, these are all just possibilities and open questions. It would be nice to have all those systems and to have them integrated, but VN depends on the will of others for that. We'll have to see.

 

[Viet]

I had a feeling that you were thinking about these radars since those are the only French radars in VN, but those don't belong to the category of OTH radars.

that´s right. we don´t have such OTH radars with range of above 1,000 km right now.

 

[Viet]

Israeli Galil rifle Z111 factory in VN

 

[Viet]

the navy needs more than 4 from such warship, or we should place more advanced missiles on them.

 

[Viet]

Repair facility A32 for fighter jets

 

[Viet]

Interfax:
Vietnam purchases russian made NKVD-27 communications system for the SU-30 fleet, operating on VHF/UHF frequency band with range 350-400 km, HF with range 1,000-1,500 km.

 

[Carlosa]

the navy needs more than 4 from such warship, or we should place more advanced missiles on them.
View attachment 153066

I think we need both.

 

[Viet]

Carlosa, SIPRI says VN will receive the first of 6 Yak-130 in 2015. that is the first time I hear. Have you heard anything about it?
Những vũ khí mới Việt Nam sẽ nhận trong năm 2015 - Sohanews

 

[Viet]

57mm AZP S-60 artillery in live firing exercise