Vietnam Defence Forum

[William Hung]

I totally agree with you. We are on the same page here. I'm also a fan of Israeli systems. The Israelis are always at war and have limited money, they can't afford to make expensive white elephants that don't work. Everything they make just works. The more VN can get from them the better.

THAAD/AEGIS/Patriot are crazy expensive, THAAD doesn't even work and you remember the Patriot record of 90% interception with Sadam's scuds that turned out to be 0%. Arrow 3 can workout very well for VN and David's Sling is another one that VN should look into (we already talked about Barak 8 before).

Yeah after the Arrow 3 missiles get inducted, the BMD system will truly be multi-layered. It can even shoot down LEO satellites, which might come in handy for VN.

Although having Barak-8 will make the whole system integrated, I still think the S-400 is more preferable. In my opinion, the S-400 is still the king against cruise missiles and aircraft, plus it has a longer range than Barak.

So I prefer the Arrow as the top layer BMD system. It can be integrated with the SPYDER for area protection against aircraft and cruise missiles. This system can then be networked to the US regional BMD system.

For the lower layer defence against BM that might escape the top layer defence, the S-300/S-400 and Buk-M2 can take care of them. Plus it also does the best job against aircraft and cruise missiles. The Pantsirs can then be integrated as point defence for these system. VN already has Buk-M2 and Pantsirs right?

This would truly be a multilayered missile defence system. Although interestingly, the US rejected India's request to buy the Arrow system a few years ago.

 

[Carlosa]

Yeah after the Arrow 3 missiles get inducted, the BMD system will truly be multi-layered. It can even shoot down LEO satellites, which might come in handy for VN.

Although having Barak-8 will make the whole system integrated, I still think the S-400 is more preferable. In my opinion, the S-400 is still the king against cruise missiles and aircraft, plus it has a longer range than Barak.

So I prefer the Arrow as the top layer BMD system. It can be integrated with the SPYDER for area protection against aircraft and cruise missiles. This system can then be networked to the US regional BMD system.

For the lower layer defence against BM that might escape the top layer defence, the S-300/S-400 and Buk-M2 can take care of them. Plus it also does the best job against aircraft and cruise missiles. The Pantsirs can then be integrated as point defence for these system. VN already has Buk-M2 and Pantsirs right?

This would truly be a multilayered missile defence system. Although interestingly, the US rejected India's request to buy the Arrow system a few years ago.

We think exactly the same way man.

Yes, S-300PMU2 / S-400 are the kings (250 km range for S-300PMU2 and 400 km for S-400), S-300PMU2 can be upgraded to S-400 standard and I'm sure it will be.

VN has 6 batteries of Buk-M2M, same role as Barak 8 which is much better, but oh well.

For expanded point defense (point defense - semi mid range) Spyder-MR (35 km range) and upgraded SAM-3 (S-125 Pechora-2TM, big upgrade, its actually a very good missile) and Pantsir (12 units I believe).

With Arrow 3 it would be quite a complete system and affordable. I forgot USA finances the Arrow, they have veto power, that's too bad.

Yes, VN already has the Buk and Pantsir, but no announcements as usual.

 

[Nike]

We think exactly the same way man.

Yes, S-300PMU2 / S-400 are the kings (250 km range for S-300PMU2 and 400 km for S-400), S-300PMU2 can be upgraded to S-400 standard and I'm sure it will be.

VN has 6 batteries of Buk-M2M, same role as Barak 8 which is much better, but oh well.

For expanded point defense (point defense - semi mid range) Spyder-MR (35 km range) and upgraded SAM-3 (S-125 Pechora-2TM, big upgrade, its actually a very good missile) and Pantsir (12 units I believe).

With Arrow 3 it would be quite a complete system and affordable. I forgot USA finances the Arrow, they have veto power, that's too bad.

Yes, VN already has the Buk and Pantsir, but no announcements as usual.

i have seen the report of Buk and Pantsir acquisition and request at IHS janes, RIA Novosti, Lenta.ru and some local news in 2010 and 2012 respectively.

 

[William Hung]

VN has 6 batteries of Buk-M2M, same role as Barak 8 which is much better, but oh well.

With Arrow 3 it would be quite a complete system and affordable. I forgot USA finances the Arrow, they have veto power, that's too bad.

Buk-M2 is still OK. The Barak-8 will probably cost more than the Buk. The Buk can still intercept tactical BM and can be integrated with the S-300.

The SPYDER is probably good enough to provide area/point defence for the Arrow system. So there is probably no need for the Barak-8 if VN can't afford them.

I'm not sure why the US veto'd Israel's decision to sell the Arrow system to India. But considering the CRS has already encouraged the US to sell VietNam their BMD system, I don't see why they would ban Israel from selling the Arrow system to VietNam.

i have seen the report of Buk and Pantsir acquisition and request at IHS janes, RIA Novosti, Lenta.ru and some local news in 2010 and 2012 respectively.

I also remember a SIPRI report confirming the Buk and Pantsir orders.

 

[Carlosa]

Buk-M2 is still OK. The Barak-8 will probably cost more than the Buk. The Buk can still intercept tactical BM and can be integrated with the S-300.

The SPYDER is probably good enough to provide area/point defence for the Arrow system. So there is probably no need for the Barak-8 if VN can't afford them.

I'm not sure why the US veto'd Israel's decision to sell the Arrow system to India. But considering the CRS has already encouraged the US to sell VietNam their BMD system, I don't see why they would ban Israel from selling the Arrow system to VietNam.



I also remember a SIPRI report confirming the Buk and Pantsir orders.

Another element to consider in order to have a decent ABM system is the radars. Currently VN doesn't have the type of radars that can give early enough detection and warning. Actually, The Israeli Green Pine radars that they use for the Arrow system are also not good enough (they only give a 2 minute warning time), US gave a better radar to Israel that actually gives a 5 or 6 minute warning time.

For Vn the best solution would be Russian radars, Russia has top radars for ABM defense and also, VN should consider the Russian OTH radars that give a 5000 km range. If Vn can get into that, then it would be quite a nice BMD system.

 

[Viet]

Carlosa and Black, that news is maybe of your interest. French navy frigate Le Vendemiaire, under the command of Captain Hervé Sire makes port visit to Da Nang. the ship is equipped with onboard Exocet missile. a variant of this rocket is said installed on our new Sigmar warships.
The navy wants probably to see it.

 

[Viet]

division #312 on live fire training

 

[Carlosa]

Carlosa and Black, that news is maybe of your interest. French navy frigate Le Vendemiaire, under the command of Captain Hervé Sire makes port visit to Da Nang. the ship is equipped with onboard Exocet missile. a variant of this rocket is said installed on our new Sigmar warships.
The navy wants probably to see it.

View attachment 152298

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Yes, it arrived today to Danang. Hopefully I'll be able to take a look at the ship (from a distance of course)

 

[Viet]

Infantry, anti tank unit with recoilless guns B-10, SPG-9 and M-20

 

[Viet]

Another element to consider in order to have a decent ABM system is the radars. Currently VN doesn't have the type of radars that can give early enough detection and warning. Actually, The Israeli Green Pine radars that they use for the Arrow system are also not good enough (they only give a 2 minute warning time), US gave a better radar to Israel that actually gives a 5 or 6 minute warning time.

For Vn the best solution would be Russian radars, Russia has top radars for ABM defense and also, VN should consider the Russian OTH radars that give a 5000 km range. If Vn can get into that, then it would be quite a nice BMD system.

ha ha ha...I see you know vietnamese army very well. actually we have a variant of french OTH radar with range of some hundreds kilometres. But 5,000 km? that will give us a huge jump ahead if we can get it.

 

[Carlosa]

ha ha ha...I see you know vietnamese army very well. actually we have a variant of french OTH radar with range of some hundreds kilometres. But 5,000 km? that will give us a huge jump ahead if we can get it.

Please tell me some details about that French OTH radar that you mentioned because the radars included in the OTH category are always in the thousands of kilometers.

Yes, VN should have 2 OTH radars, one pointing to China and the other one to the South china sea, that will cover everything including ALL the chinese territory and the WHOLE south china sea. Not bad huh?

Also, OTH radars are very good at detecting cruise missiles, they would detect the missile right from the launch time, that's a very nice warning time.

They are also very good at detecting stealth aircraft since the radar waves hit the planes from the top.

OTH radars are huge. Russia has the best ones. Here are some pics of them:

The radar in these pics is the Russian Voronezh-DM with a range of 6500 km.

 

[William Hung]

For Vn the best solution would be Russian radars, Russia has top radars for ABM defense and also, VN should consider the Russian OTH radars that give a 5000 km range. If Vn can get into that, then it would be quite a nice BMD system.

Hmmmm a few problem though:

1. Can VietNam afford to buy and operate these OTH radars?
2. Will Russia dare to sell them to VN? China will be very sensitive about this.
3. I doubt Russia and Israel will cooperate to make this radar be integrated with the Arrow.

I actually think the best option is to host a US forward base X-band radar. The same type that Israel is using. Not only can VN rely on this radar, it can also rely on US satellites for early detection and warning (during the missile boost phase). Frankly, I just don't think VN has enough money and resources to purchase and operate this kind of complete BMD system all by themselves. They must rely on the US or Russia, but I doubt that Russia will cooperate with VN due to their relationship with China.

But this is why I think VN needs two system just in case the US pulls out. The Arrow/SPYDER system to integrate with the US regional BMD system. The S-300/Buk/Pantsir as a non-western backup system.

I'm actually doing some readings on Asian BMD system right now. I've read that the US had planned to setup a forward base X-band radar in South East Asia. The analyst was saying it's likely to be the Philippines.
But after reading that CRS report, I've come to conclude that the US have 3 locations in mind: the Philippines, Singapore and VN.

 

[Viet]

Please tell me some details about that French OTH radar that you mentioned because the radars included in the OTH category are always in the thousands of kilometers.

Yes, VN should have 2 OTH radars, one pointing to China and the other one to the South china sea, that will cover everything including ALL the chinese territory and the WHOLE south china sea. Not bad huh?

Also, OTH radars are very good at detecting cruise missiles, they would detect the missile right from the launch time, that's a very nice warning time.

They are also very good at detecting stealth aircraft since the radar waves hit the planes from the top.

OTH radars are huge. Russia has the best ones. Here are some pics of them:

View attachment 152363 View attachment 152364 View attachment 152365
View attachment 152366

The radar in these pics is the Russian Voronezh-DM with a range of 6500 km.

I posted the news some time ago. it is a sort of small OTH radars that can be installed on warships:

Coast Watcher 100 | Thales Group
specs: wavelength 10m, over the horizon radar, capable to detect targets such as

• stealth vessel at a distance of 45 km with radar reflector size (RCS) of 1m2
• aircraft at a distance of 90 km at low altitude of 170m with RCS of 25m2
• fishing vessel with RCS of 50m2 with 3m height above sea level at 145 km distance
• warship with RCS of 10,000m2, 10m height above sea level at a distance of 170 km
• can be installed on next generation of warships as Sigma class

 

[William Hung]

Carlosa and Black, that news is maybe of your interest. French navy frigate Le Vendemiaire, under the command of Captain Hervé Sire makes port visit to Da Nang. the ship is equipped with onboard Exocet missile. a variant of this rocket is said installed on our new Sigmar warships.
The navy wants probably to see it.

That frigate looks a bit old. Maybe you can lobby them to give it to VN for free? VN is buying some very expensive French missiles, they should give something free as a package.

ha ha ha...I see you know vietnamese army very well. actually we have a variant of french OTH radar with range of some hundreds kilometres. But 5,000 km? that will give us a huge jump ahead if we can get it.

I think you are talking about the Thales coastal radar?

 

[Viet]

here is the link:
Những vũ khí "khủng" của Pháp trong biên chế QĐND Việt Nam | Quân sự | Báo Dân Việt

France will deliver CoastWatcher 100, Exocet MM40 Block 3 and VL MICA.