‘Verdict makes me feel like a 2nd-class citizen’

[arihant]

And when ASI camew in to picture? AFTER BABRI MASJID demolition. There were reports right after Dec 6, 1992 that karsewaks have planted ENOUGH EVIDENCE for any future ASI INVESTIGATION!

Even then ASI did not say it WAS a temple!

Fighter

I think you still don't have idea on what is ASI. It not only try to find the structure but they analyze it, test it with chemicals to find the real age.

Moreover, ASI report was carried out in 1970, 1980, 1995 and 2003. Even if Karsewaks plants the enough evidence, they would not be able to prove that the structure were of 12th century or earlier.

Moreover, if you don't know what ASI analyze than see the image -

Although even there is enough proof that Qutb Minar was built on 27 Jain temples none is claiming it because its not scared and its also one of the national heritage site.

You should know that there is emple proof that around 15000 temples were destroyed to built the mosque with atleast 2000 mosque having the pillars of Hindu/Jain temples. But none is claiming it because Indians feel in harmony.

The reason for dispute in Babri Masjid is that it is scared place for Hindus and Muslims should have given it to them before the court ruling. BTW. I am not Hindu nor Muslim but still want to side Hindus but not of VHP or RSS type.

But offcourse VHP and RSS should be punished of demolition of mosque which was indeed illegal. The trial in this case is going on.

 

[Bang Galore]

When Highcourt judges are putting thier weight on flimsy emotions rather rationality, logic, facts and truths then it really become a GREAT JOKE! You are right!

Holding that a particular piece of land is common property is in no way contrary to law. Once the Waqf Board's case was dismissed, they under the common law concept of adverse possession would have had no claims to the tittle. How then would you have liked the judges to rule?

And when ASI camew in to picture? AFTER BABRI MASJID demolition. There were reports right after Dec 6, 1992 that karsewaks have planted ENOUGH EVIDENCE for any future ASI INVESTIGATION!

That too is a matter of belief. You believe that and unless you want to change your mind, will hold on to that belief. The structures found by the ASI involves a whole base of a preexisting structure which they have opined bears similarity to temples existing in Northern India during the period in question or slightly earlier. The ASI are not a bunch of amateurs to be fooled by objects that may have been placed by hoodlums who are probably ignorant of history. Having said that, you would probably still believe what you are inclined to hear and nothing will likely change your mind. The Judges too applied their minds & accepted the ASI report after some deliberation.The Supreme Court route is always available to those feeling aggrieved. I do however think that the sweeping generalisation you are doing against the Courts,the government , the State & Hindus in general are not very helpful even if they are understandable given the circumstances.

Regards

 

[Novice09]

Typical Muslim mentality, they are hard to get pleased. @Fighter488, Most of the Hindus don't like Indian version of secularism, but you should be thankful to the majority community that India is still secular to minorities.

let me add....

I really like

You cannot curb the feelings of majority beware its democracy

 

[arihant]

let me add....

I really like Modi

You cannot curb the feelings of majority beware its democracy

I think you are too desperate to prove anything. According to oldest witness of the Babri Case, Ansari told that it is not BJP but congress who is playing with us.

 

[Fighter488]

Only because Hindus are this much tolerant and this land is secular that Muslims are even allowed to appeal to the SC to plead this case.

So please dont overshoot yourself. Just because the verdict was not in your favour doesnt mean you are being victimised.It can also mean plainly your case is wrong.

The Hindu tolerance that you are talking about is the myth that you create to justify the illegal and illogical decisions. Hindus did not adopt secularism for the sake of minorities; Muslims, Christians , Sikhs etc; but because HINDUS CAN NOT implement the HINDU LAWS in this country because of cut-throat opposition from low cast Hindus themselves. The MANU-LAWS based hindu governing system is still the biggest curse, low cast Hindus have ever faced!

The case was not put to the court to gain a FAVOURITISM ! Right! Muslims WERE not asking for any favouritism. Muslims still maintain the verdict must have come as per INDIAN and INTERNATIONAL judicial standards! The verdict is wrong because judges decided the case o the basis of emotions, beliefs and hence a clear FAVOURITISM to Hindus!

I think I am clear enough here!

Again you are wrong - the idol of Ram Lalla was placed on 23 rd December 1949 and not on Dec 6 1992.All the Judges have concurred on this.

I am not talking about idols, but the PLANTED archeological ruins (crafted stones, and stuff like that).


Fighter

 

[Bang Galore]

let me add....

I really like

You cannot curb the feelings of majority beware its democracy

Statements like these are exactly the reason why Fighter 488 & other Indian Muslims feel aggrieved. What exactly is your point here? To gloat? Showing a picture of a man in whose administration, one of the worst communal riots took place is just your attempt to try & add salt to the wound. What is the connection between Narendra Modi & this?

We are trying to keep this civil & look at the judgment as dispassionately as we can. Your "might is right" attitude is seriously amiss here.

Btw, Democracy is not Mobocracy, the rule of the mob. You will find yourself as disappointed by democracy as some here are because anticipated riots have not taken place after this judgment.

 

[arihant]

The case was not put to the court to gain a FAVOURITISM ! Right! Muslims WERE not asking for any favouritism. Muslims still maintain the verdict must have come as per INDIAN and INTERNATIONAL judicial standards! The verdict is wrong because judges decided the case o the basis of emotions, beliefs and hence a clear FAVOURITISM to Hindus

I think you are wrong here not completely but partially. If left out the belief than also same decision would have come because untill or before 1857 both Hindus and Muslims use to worship inside the mosque which made the clear evidence that both were in the possession of the land. In this way land was divided between two parties. The third portion was always with the Nirmohi Akhara. Although now they affiliate with Hindus but in real they were owners of out yard purchased from Akbar's rule. Nirmohi Akhara only gave the way to both sects of community to go inside the structure. Because the only gate to enter the site was Hanuman gate which was infact in the possession of Nirmohi Akhara.

 

[Novice09]

I think you are too desperate to prove anything. According to oldest witness of the Babri Case, Ansari told that it is not BJP but congress who is playing with us.

for bold part... yes I'm, but this is not a place. However, I can't resist myself.

I have never listen to my favorite song 'jai ho' since it was used by congress in their election campaign... that is the level of my hatred towards congress

 

[TATA]

Pointing to facts and gross negligience or in-aptness of judiciary is not a blame game. Verdict based on a "Faith and Belief" system is not how modern judicial system run over. Faith was not the deciding criteria even in mediavel times, how it become so now?

Habib sahab was pointing to the fact and he is right!

Fighter

Habib Tanvir and Shabnam Hashmi are known communist they are also atheist who don't believe in Allah.

Its just their old rant and propaganda they vomits.

So the point is not to talk if you don't know the reality.

 

[KS]

The Hindu tolerance that you are talking about is the myth that you create to justify the illegal and illogical decisions. Hindus did not adopt secularism for the sake of minorities; Muslims, Christians , Sikhs etc; but because HINDUS CAN NOT implement the HINDU LAWS in this country because of cut-throat opposition from low cast Hindus themselves. The MANU-LAWS based hindu governing system is still the biggest curse, low cast Hindus have ever faced!

Whoa..so according to you Even "Pundit" Nehru was a low caste Hindu that he went for secularism and vehemently opposed a Hindu State.

dude you are too much ingrained with a antipathy for hindus and no amount of my explanation will clear this out from ur mind.

So Enjoy our tolerance till its there.

The case was not put to the court to gain a FAVOURITISM ! Right! Muslims WERE not asking for any favouritism. Muslims still maintain the verdict must have come as per INDIAN and INTERNATIONAL judicial standards! The verdict is wrong because judges decided the case o the basis of emotions, beliefs and hence a clear FAVOURITISM to Hindus!

If a choice is given between a Judgement based on Law (which will leave wounds on both sides open) and a Judgement which gives a chance at reconciliation (which is the present one) - I (and any sane thinking person) would go for the Judgement based on Re-conciliation.

I dont know what you want - reconciliation or a festering wound.

I am not talking about idols, but the PLANTED archeological ruins (crafted stones, and stuff like that).
Fighter

As previously said the ASI and the learned judges are not a bunch of incompetent fools to be taken for a ride based on some bogus evidence planted by mostly illiterate karsevaks.

So please take your logic for a hike.

 

[Novice09]

Btw, Democracy is not Mobocracy, the rule of the mob. You will find yourself as disappointed by democracy as some here are because anticipated riots have not taken place after this judgment.

believe me that the highlighted part have hurt me in your entire post... I'm as sane as you, I do know that when their are riots, rioters don't ask for your religion before attacking you.

You feel that I've posted NM's image because he was ruling that state where roits took place do you think that only muslims were killed during those roits? Why those riots started?

I posted that image because he don't give a damn to so called seculars scattered here and there in India.

If pleasing muslims for each and every act is secularism, sorry I don't believe in it...

 

[arihant]

As par ASI report is concern, none has any doubt including judges, lawyer of Sunni Waqf board and all that.

The matter will go to SC because Judges has given 1/3rd land to Muslims. Now problem is that if they have given 1/3rd land to Muslim than it is prove that they were worshiping in the mosque (which according to judges was not mosque because it was against the Islamic Law of foundation). To my view Judges gave 1/3rd land to Muslims and 1/3rd to Hindus because both use to worship at the same place.

Both are fighting for the ownership but no one has proof. What proof they have is of British time which itself clearly says both use to worship at least or before 1855.

 

[Fireurimagination]

The Hindu tolerance that you are talking about is the myth that you create to justify the illegal and illogical decisions. Hindus did not adopt secularism for the sake of minorities; Muslims, Christians , Sikhs etc; but because HINDUS CAN NOT implement the HINDU LAWS in this country because of cut-throat opposition from low cast Hindus themselves. The MANU-LAWS based hindu governing system is still the biggest curse, low cast Hindus have ever faced!

The so called low cast Hindus are also Hindus, 80% India is Hindu yet it took 60 years of a court battle to build a Ram temple on the Ram Janmabhoomi. Minorities have been pampered in India since long let it been non-implementation of common civil code, Shah Bano verdict, reservations based on religion etc. If Hindus in India were not tolerant then BJP had been in full power and Ram Mandir would have been build through legislation

The case was not put to the court to gain a FAVOURITISM ! Right! Muslims WERE not asking for any favouritism. Muslims still maintain the verdict must have come as per INDIAN and INTERNATIONAL judicial standards! The verdict is wrong because judges decided the case o the basis of emotions, beliefs and hence a clear FAVOURITISM to Hindus!

I think I am clear enough here!




I am not talking about idols, but the PLANTED archeological ruins (crafted stones, and stuff like that).


Fighter

Okay if it works for you it's right, if it doesn't it's wrong. PLANTED archeological ruins, the verdicts states that Hindus have been praying at the place even before 1855

 

[Fighter488]

Whoa..so according to you Even "Pundit" Nehru was a low caste Hindu that he went for secularism and vehemently opposed a Hindu State.

You are short on reasoning here Sri! I am talking about Hindu system not Pundit Nehru. He was an apt politician, like many high cast hindus and he sensed the mood of hidu masses of his time, quite accurately! He had no other choice but to go for secularism. Any way Pundit Nehru is not point of discussion here.

dude you are too much ingrained with a antipathy for hindus and no amount of my explanation will clear this out from ur mind.

I am the person who still belive in 'Broad minded Hindus are in majority!' in this country .

If a choice is given between a Judgement based on Law (which will leave wounds on both sides open) and a Judgement which gives a chance at reconciliation (which is the present one) - I (and any sane thinking person) would go for the Judgement based on Re-conciliation.

Ahh... Now you are talking with some sense. Remeber your few initial posts few minutes backl !

Reconciliation come on what basis? Would court reconcile the warring factions or is it the duty of the feuding parties to give chance to reconcillation? Remember, court always advices ' foran OUT-OF-COURT' settelment, if court want it to happen! They DID never DIRECT a settlement.

Here, in this case waring factions were given this oppurtunity many times! Unfortunately, it did not materialize. The isue is here the reasons that the court put to judge its absurd RECONCILIATION PLAN, if there is any.

It will be still be best to have a compromise formula outside the courts but NOT at the cost of fundamental and constitutional ethos of this country called India. That's the point!


Fighter

 

[arihant]

Only way to give justice to Muslims is to punish the Advani, Togadia. At least this way we convey the message is that those who broke the rules will be prosecuted. I hope all Young Indians agree with. If older Indians don't agree, we should not care as we would be in majority in 2020 (Young generation)