Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez dies

[anon45]

People in this forum tend to look at thing over Simplified.

If you hate america or the west, then Chavez is a good man, decent man, because he hates imperialist and the west.
If you love america or the west, then Chavez is a bad guy, dictator, cuase he hate Imperialist and the west.

I want to ask you all one question, How many of you, Pro-Chavez or Pro-West have ever been in Venezuela?? How many of you even speak espanol to begin with??

I am not going to go deep on wether or not a dictator can be liked. Nor if he elected democratically or whatever, it all DOES NOT MATTER. As my mother say, DON'T JUDGE A MAN ON WHAT HE DO, BUT HIS LEGACY.

He is a head of states, he have to make friends within to get into that position, and with friends, comes enemies. If you are for him, you will always see him as a good man, a savior, if you are against him, you will always see him as a jerk.

The same can be said with Che and Castrol. If you love him, you love him, If you don't, you don't.

Sure, he have done a lot of good things for his own society, but all that HAVE TO BALANCED with the bad things that he'd done, and don't tell mehe have not done anything wrong.

So, in the end of the day, as a human being, it's sad to see another human being pass. But it would be the next generation who decide wether or not he is a great leader or a lousy dictator. Not us.

Buenas Suerte i Buenas Noches

Chavez gave to the poor when it benefitted him politically and chose to harass, rob, and sometimes jail those who disagreed with him. He destroyed any constitutional laws in his way, and has been a prime reason Venezuela has become an economic basketcase.

Admittedly he has not gone to the level of depravity and evil that Assad has, he has not committed genocide against his own people to retain power, but given the very questionable and corrupt lengths he has gone to to assure that he stayed in power to the ongoing detriment of his country, its judiciary, its free media, and its human rights, I am seriously skeptical on whether he would have peacefully ceded power if, despite all judicial, media, and voting manipulation (party supporters threatening those who vote for the opposition among other things), he had lost.

Overall Chavez was not pure evil, nor was he a complete and unrepentant dictator, but he sure as hell was an opportunist bastard, and not our bastard.

If he could be said to have had any principle, his principle was Anti-Americanism. He is a face that defined it, and he took 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' to heart.

He did not leave Venezuela a strong independent nation, but he did whatever it took to poke a stick in America's eye, even if it meant substituting one master for another.

Surely the Chinese, the Iranians, the Cubans, will mourn him, he was their bastard.

Similarly anyone who hates and despises America will mourn his passing, he shared their views and was very vocal about it.

This is all well and good, but it obviously doesn't endear him to the American public. Myself included.

Venezuela could have had much better, if not for him. Admittedly it could have had worse, if not for him.

I shed no tears, he was not a good person. A bad person can still on occasion do good things as a means to an end. and his end was power.

 

[500]

I would say Assad is the only one stopping the general public in Syria from going against Israel: a country in the hands of fundamentalist Muslims will prove much more dangerous to Israel than the current one under Assad

Maybe it is so. Actually I must correct myself. Chavez only pretended himself to be crazy, but in fact he was the main oil provider to US. And US money was the main source of his wealth.

In the morning he was sending tankers to US, in the evening he was cursing the "imperialistic US" on TV.

 

[Sugarcane]

R.I.P........

 

[500]

Here is comparison of economic growth during his reign:

So many countries are doing much better, although oil prices during his reign grew nearly 10 times.

 

[Mian H Amin.]

Another crazy dictator dies. Assad next?

how about netanyahu ???? general !!

A brave man, Commandant President Hugo Chavez. RIP. you will be missed.

 

[Xeeshan]

Chavez is the most elected politician on the planet, who has won more free and fair elections, more than any other politician on the earth! Jimmy Carter termed the last elections as the most free and fair elections he has ever observed, even more so than any held in US of A.
Capriles (opposition candidate) had himself acknowledged that he has been defeated in a free and fair election.
Chavez enjoyed a landslide victory against 30 opposition parties who put up single candidate against him and yet failed. How come is he still a dictator?

He closed almost all opposition TV stations, radios and newspapers, he used state money to bribe voters for himself, he rewrote constitution for himself. Thats dictatorship.

As far as I know, 95% of TV stations in Venezuela are privately owned, all of whom are backed and supported by opposition (and ....yes, you guessed it). And by the way, the TV channel that is enlisted in amnesty’s report a criminal offense to freedom-of-speech mantra, by Chavez, was accused of inciting a coup.
Venezuela has 5th largest student body of the world, with a population of just over 20 million people.
Poverty has been reduced by 75% in Venezuela, while Chavez reigned. Thats precisely why he kept getting re-elected. Rich Venezuelans hate Chavez because he transformed the lives of poor and redistributed the oil wealth to the masses, and I'm not amazed that Americans and Israelis on this forum hate him too.

Another crazy dictator dies. Assad next?

Ah! The old rubbish of US media, which term him as tyrant. I wonder how many times do you have to be elected before they stop calling you a dictator.


RIP Chavez.

 

[Xeeshan]

The death of Hugo Chavez at just 58 is a body blow for the poor and the oppressed, throughout Latin America and the wider world. The most elected leader in the modern era, Chavez transformed Venezuela by the force of his will and a popular revolution which encompassed the marginal, the ethnic minorities, the workers, and key sections of the progressive intelligencia who saw in him a veritable Spartacus.

He rallied an army of not slaves, but those despised by the oligarchy as hewers of wood and drawers of the oil which previously made only the rich richer. Under Chavez’ revolution the oil wealth was distributed in ever rising wages and above all in ambitious social engineering. He built the fifth largest student body in the world, creating scores of new universities. More than 90% of Venezuelans ate three meals a day for the first time in the country’s history. Quality social housing for the masses became the norm with the pledge that by the end of the presidential term, now cut short, all Venezuelans would live in a dignified house.

Chavez’ ambitions were not limited to Venezuela alone. He fostered Latin American unity promoting democratic and socialist movements throughout the continent. He founded a Bank of the South, a University of the South, even a television station of the South – Tele Sur. And further afield he championed the Palestinian cause, giving citizenship to stateless Palestinian refugees. When Israel invaded Lebanon, from where I write, in 2006 he expelled the Israeli ambassador from Caracas – relations which remain severed. He stood up to North American hegemony and with the victims of imperial domination everywhere.

I knew him as a warm gregarious bear of a man, a force of nature. My wife and I spent almost two weeks working in his presidential campaign late last year. It is heartbreaking to be writing what amounts to his obituary so soon after yet another of his great political triumphs. He will be remembered as a man who lived and died for his people, as a paratrooper, a tank commander, a president. Hasta siempre Comandante. Presente.

Independent

 

[born]

You do not elevate the poor by taking from the rich. That short term tactic have never yielded long term economic success. That is what Chavez have done. Am middle class American and I recognize that reality, along with every critically minded visitors to Venezuela...

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...esident-hugo-chavez-dies-8.html#ixzz2Mp5PBAuC

Yes I agree . You cant elevate poor by taking from the rich alone . But its certainly an option among many others (forgive my crappy language skills ).I mean how do people become rich? They do it by exploiting either natural resources or human resources . Neither of these are anyone's monopoly.Natural resources of a country belongs to its people .All its citizens have equal rights to it. So the state has every right to "take from the rich" .

I have never been to Venezuela . So i dont know the real condition of people there. But according to various sources the country seems to be fairing well in key areas.

World Health Organization ranking of health systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You cheer for Chavez not because you have any real understanding of what is going on the Americas but because you have this irrational need to poke US in the eye by way of Chavez. My G/F is half Chilean. She and her family from Santiago used to visit neighboring Latin American states on annual basis. The mess that is Venezuela since Chavez took power and attempted to impose his socialist politics and policies are well known in Latin America and they noticed the decline from year to year.

what made you think I want to "poke US in the eye" . Did even mention US in any of my posts. Look if you hate socialism and socialist countries why dont u just ignore them? Ofcourse you have a right to expression I agree , but when people disagree with you, you are labeling them anti US .

 

[Developereo]

If you hate america or the west, then Chavez is a good man, decent man, because he hates imperialist and the west.
If you love america or the west, then Chavez is a bad guy, dictator, cuase he hate Imperialist and the west.

It's a bit more nuanced than that,

Chavez was a reactionary who was against the exploitative capitalism rampant in Venezuela where a tiny elite, colluding with Western oil companies, were robbing the country blind. As such, Chavez was against those corporations and their supporters, including their governments.

He was driven by good intentions and felt that the ends (social justice) justified his means. As such. he did sometimes cross the line and he failed to realize that socialism creates its own monsters of inefficiency. Or perhaps he realized all this and decided that, compared to the capitalist excesses, his way was the lesser of two evils.

In any case, truly an inspiration to millions and a champion of social justice.

RIP.

 

[Serpentine]

 

[skyknight]

A brave soilder and a good leader of Venezuela，Rest in peace。

 

[500]

Chavez is the most elected politician on the planet, who has won more free and fair elections, more than any other politician on the earth! Jimmy Carter termed the last elections as the most free and fair elections he has ever observed, even more so than any held in US of A.

He is "most elected" because he changed constitution to run again. Thats clearly anti democratic move. Mubarak was elected 4 times by the way - more than Chavez.

Capriles (opposition candidate) had himself acknowledged that he has been defeated in a free and fair election.
Chavez enjoyed a landslide victory against 30 opposition parties who put up single candidate against him and yet failed. How come is he still a dictator?

I explained how: he closed opposition mass media and bribed poors with state money.

As far as I know, 95% of TV stations in Venezuela are privately owned, all of whom are backed and supported by opposition (and ....yes, you guessed it). And by the way, the TV channel that is enlisted in amnesty’s report a criminal offense to freedom-of-speech mantra, by Chavez, was accused of inciting a coup.

Private owned are also intimidated forced to broadcast Chavez speeches and so on. Inciting coup - typical excuses which dictators use to sanction rivals.

Venezuela has 5th largest student body of the world, with a population of just over 20 million people.
Poverty has been reduced by 75% in Venezuela, while Chavez reigned. Thats precisely why he kept getting re-elected. Rich Venezuelans hate Chavez because he transformed the lives of poor and redistributed the oil wealth to the masses, and I'm not amazed that Americans and Israelis on this forum hate him too.

During Chavez rule GNP per capita of Venezuela grew only 1.5 times, although oil prices grew some 10 times. For comparison even in poor oilless Peru GNP per capita grew 2 times. While in in oil Russia it grew 3.5 times in same period.

On the other hand during Chavez Venezuela became one of the world leaders in murders.

 

[Skyman]

One of the few anti-imperialistic leaders on this planet. He wanted sovereignty and an independent foreign policy for his country. Not be a puppet of the west (unlike certain countries in south and east Asia)

RIP Hugo, you will be missed!

 

[500]

One of the few anti-imperialistic leaders on this planet. He wanted sovereignty and an independent foreign policy for his country. Not be a puppet of the west (unlike certain countries in south and east Asia)

RIP Hugo, you will be missed!

A glorious fighter with America, whos main source of income was selling oil to America.

 

[Skyman]

A glorious fighter with America, whos main source of income was selling oil to America.

Better than a country that's survival is based on aid from America