Uzma Khan Scandal: What is all wrong with us as Society

[Longhorn]

Its kind of cute that you conveniently dodged my answer that has already answered your concern.
Let me rephrase my point.
Now this is "what if" scenario and dont take it personally.
What if you (lets make it a imaginary wife not a real one "and may allah protect us from all evil") is caught by you having a relationship ( i am not gonna go into details but understand where this conversations is going) but you did not catch them in the act. Would you not have sufficient suspicion that an evil act has taken place between the two and based on that wouldnt you leave her if she has not changed after repeated warnings? If you would leave her then why would you do so since you did not catch them in the act and if you dont what kind of man are you?


This is the loop hole in the system I am talking about. "innocent until proven guilty" its like everybody knows a crime took place but the law can not persecute because lack of "evidence". Prime example, corrupt politicians, business tycoons, industrial mafias, etc are accused of corruption but keep getting away because again "lack of evidence".
And No illicit act takes place in todays world with open doors or in public where such an activity can be caught by "eyewitnesses" only. Alot of punishments that Islam has prescribed was more applicable in the past then it is today. As long as an evil act can be stopped in the society by any means like in form of imprisonment then you are fullfilling islamic duties. And since punishment is very harsh in Islam thats why it makes it a very tough criteria to persecute the accused.

Btw Pakistani police also raids on brothels and catches anyone who is inside even if they are in waiting line and has not committed the crime yet.


Does sting operations ring any bell to you? People get arrested for merely showing up to the place without action taking place. It happens all over US! And their are many other ways to get arrested for illicit act without even any action!



Islam = Quran and Prophet Mohammed PBUH words and actions. His companions and relatives have their own importance and we should respect that but not to the point where we fallow them.
Islam does require witness only if they are to be severally punished "i.e flogged or stoned to death" other wise without witness it should be up to us to have laws either western or our own that safeguards society from such actions. be it drugs, corruption what not.
With the way how technology has advanced "not a bad thing" it will become almost impossible to catch any criminal by solely relying on Islamic laws which again were perfect for that time and should be today but we need to have perfect Muslim society in order for it to be interpreted and implemented.

As for uzma case, even in western law she could get in alot of trouble. where as the wife could be just punished for just simple assault if she could prove that she was informed the house belonged to her husband.




Uzma has admitted she had on and off relationship with a married man. The wife caught them before multiple times. The wife raided the house "to be the witness" of illicit act but at that time they must have been done and were just chilling with romantic music which you can hear in the background.
Btw i am not accusing a random person but these women are known for growing up in heera mendhi type community.




Trust me, i dont know what I have got myself into. But I am just after principles.
Just because Wife is from rich corrupt background does not mean only she is in the wrong. The entire awam is after them while the two "girls" are becoming national hero for standing up. This is what I hate about this case.
Is malik corrupt? YES but he should be caught for a bigger problem like land grabbing money laundering etc... he can easily become a hero by either making his relatives or whoever was involved in this and have them do a light sentence to set them for an example for rich people to fallow and become hero while the girls get hefty amount of money to satisfy them.



thats just your self portrayal.

Righteous indignation does not equal proof.
The whole principle of the example I gave is that there can be no legal accusation without evidence, the rest is just personal opinion.
A legal system cannot be based on individual whim and preference. It has to be based on laws and evidence.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Righteous indignation does not equal proof.
The whole principle of the example I gave is that there can be no legal accusation without evidence, the rest is just personal opinion.
A legal system cannot be based on individual whim and preference. It has to be based on laws and evidence.

Then what is the law in UK to catch someone who has not committed the act yet?

 

[Longhorn]

Then what is the law in UK to catch someone who has not committed the act yet?

You tell me. Is there one?

 

[Clearly]

Whats the update on this fiasco?

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Pakistanio aur dekho Game of Thrones and Desperate Housewives etc etc.
Yar fahashi itni bar gai hai k jo bachna chahta hai wo bhi nai bach sakta.

So Apparently Since yesterday, Videos doing round on Social media, Malik Riaz Son In Law caught by her wife. i.e Malik Riaz daughter, and some other family members in Uzma Khan house . They went to Uzma khan house with a group of armed men and destroyed the furniture, Threatened them that ISI will make them disappear and beat Uzma khan and her Sister. Complete video which is graphic and lots of swearing words.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1265662755706634246

Watch out for social media as ISI/ARMY is gonna be dragged once again due to this.

 

[El Sidd]

When are the hacked CCTV scandals coming?

GoP should do more to deflect with what is happening in the region.

 

[Asian.Century]

 

[HaMoTZeMaS]

My Words

When are the hacked CCTV scandals coming?

GoP should do more to deflect with what is happening in the region.

I think we need an active Cyber force who can infiltrate and bring us the reality tapes cctv would be enough.

These unsolved mysteries stays in our minds and trouble us for life.
There should be someone to bring us the light.

 

[El Sidd]

There should be someone to bring us the light.

Just ignore them and you will have the light

 

[SQ8]

That justifies the mistreatment, harassment and terrorising for personal reasons. Might as well check on the neighbours on what they are doing too. And then add a religious certificate on where they'll be going after death.

Ive actually seen one for a lady -
Paraphrased from Urdu “Respected Angels, we testify that this lady was a muslim and of good character and prayed 5 times a day and fasted - we humbly request that you ignore any minor sins and grant her a comfortable grave, safe passage from pul-e-sirat and entry into Jannah.. signed Moulvi X from local mosque and 4 other men”

That is the level of ignorance in our society and is on display here too - what should be expected if not the current status quo of utter hypocrisy and corruption in society.

I’d rather let it be and burn as it does now and focus on when the Beta for flight simulator 2020 comes out.. looks amazing.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Ive actually seen one for a lady -
Paraphrased from Urdu “Respected Angels, we testify that this lady was a muslim and of good character and prayed 5 times a day and fasted - we humbly request that you ignore any minor sins and grant her a comfortable grave, safe passage from pul-e-sirat and entry into Jannah.. signed Moulvi X from local mosque and 4 other men”

That is the level of ignorance in our society and is on display here too - what should be expected if not the current status quo of utter hypocrisy and corruption in society.

I’d rather let it be and burn as it does now and focus on when the Beta for flight simulator 2020 comes out.. looks amazing.

Illicit act of any form is illegal not only in Islam but in every part of the world. If everyone is innocent then why even have such a law then?

 

[gangsta_rap]

I’d rather let it be and burn as it does now and focus on when the Beta for flight simulator 2020 comes out.. looks amazing.

lol

 

[Cranked]

@Myth_buster_1 , I don't fully disagree to what you are trying to establish here, if you go through my earlier posts, you will get to know, that I am with the opinion to charge all of them with what they are accused for and prove it with evidence in court of law.

For a Law to be exercised you need to have evidence, evidence so clearly pointing out that an illegal act took place, can you vouch that the girl (whom you refer to as prostitute) was having sex with that guy? You would say Yes, Can you prove that? Oh, again you will say yes, based on your assumptions. But have you seen them both having sex? Now, you cannot prove that. So your accusation holds no value, this is how it goes.

Have you listened to one of the ladies who raided the house, where they said to one of their guards to touch the girl, she than yelled at him "I am saying touch her", some even say that she said to take her in the room and touch her, this clearly indicates that they know, they are above the law and can do whatever they want and nobody can touch them.

And for that where you said ISI kisi k baap ki jaghir nahi hai, how many times have you used the name of ISI to threaten someone? And it's not someone who is using their name, it is Malik's family, she is even leaving messages to some woman, that I am in trouble call me back, You would be a fool if you are to believe that they have no connections, they sure do and they do exercise them as well. (Btw- what hurts me in this entire event is them using name of ISI and I want them to be punished for that, cannot see that happening, though).

Why is that people with connections mentioned the name of connection and that connection never goes on to set an example for these people so that no one can repeat such a thing? Because Daal kali hai.

You assume a lot about others, assumptions are assumptions any given day, they cannot conclude towards certainty unless backed by acceptable evidence, so once again, have you watched them having sex?

If your criteria of accusing someone is their back ground, which we can see from your posts, that what about those Mulana's and people who practice and preach religion, if they are to be accused of something, your criteria says, as per their back ground, they cannot be sinners. Such a idiotic reference or assumption. Going this way even if a person is a sinner in his past and has repented but later accused of something, considering his / her past, he / she shall be charged with offense, lol.

You assume a lot. A lot.

@Longhorn You have explained everything in a good manner. Nicely put, I must say. Thank you.

 

[Longhorn]

@Myth_buster_1 , I don't fully disagree to what you are trying to establish here, if you go through my earlier posts, you will get to know, that I am with the opinion to charge all of them with what they are accused for and prove it with evidence in court of law.

For a Law to be exercised you need to have evidence, evidence so clearly pointing out that an illegal act took place, can you vouch that the girl (whom you refer to as prostitute) was having sex with that guy? You would say Yes, Can you prove that? Oh, again you will say yes, based on your assumptions. But have you seen them both having sex? Now, you cannot prove that. So your accusation holds no value, this is how it goes.

Have you listened to one of the ladies who raided the house, where they said to one of their guards to touch the girl, she than yelled at him "I am saying touch her", some even say that she said to take her in the room and touch her, this clearly indicates that they know, they are above the law and can do whatever they want and nobody can touch them.

And for that where you said ISI kisi k baap ki jaghir nahi hai, how many times have you used the name of ISI to threaten someone? And it's not someone who is using their name, it is Malik's family, she is even leaving messages to some woman, that I am in trouble call me back, You would be a fool if you are to believe that they have no connections, they sure do and they do exercise them as well. (Btw- what hurts me in this entire event is them using name of ISI and I want them to be punished for that, cannot see that happening, though).

Why is that people with connections mentioned the name of connection and that connection never goes on to set an example for these people so that no one can repeat such a thing? Because Daal kali hai.

You assume a lot about others, assumptions are assumptions any given day, they cannot conclude towards certainty unless backed by acceptable evidence, so once again, have you watched them having sex?

If your criteria of accusing someone is their back ground, which we can see from your posts, that what about those Mulana's and people who practice and preach religion, if they are to be accused of something, your criteria says, as per their back ground, they cannot be sinners. Such a idiotic reference or assumption. Going this way even if a person is a sinner in his past and has repented but later accused of something, considering his / her past, he / she shall be charged with offense, lol.

You assume a lot. A lot.

@Longhorn You have explained everything in a good manner. Nicely put, I must say. Thank you.

I don't really want to jump back into this argument because it would just go round in circles because of a lack of perception of how the rule of law in a modern state in the modern era is supposed to function, but I would like to say this:
People need to move away from this idea of cleansing society and a pure society. They have never existed and they never will. What we should be aiming for is a society that respects the rights of individuals under the law. We all have our own vision of what kind of a society we wish to see, but we cannot impose our vision and our wishes in an extra judicial manner otherwise the result is anarchy and injustice.
The law framed by the constitution and codified by the penal code is what defines the character of a country. The only way forward for a country is to respect the law regardless of whether or not you agree with it. It is understandable that people may not like or agree with certain laws and that is fine, there exist mechanisms in democracy to change these laws and those should be exercised by every citizen.
It is sad to see that in this era, people feel that it is ok to slander and assassinate people's characters on assumptions and hearsay regardless of proof or evidence when their actions may be perfectly legal.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

@Myth_buster_1 , I don't fully disagree to what you are trying to establish here, if you go through my earlier posts, you will get to know, that I am with the opinion to charge all of them with what they are accused for and prove it with evidence in court of law.

Im with you on this 100%.

For a Law to be exercised you need to have evidence, evidence so clearly pointing out that an illegal act took place, can you vouch that the girl (whom you refer to as prostitute) was having sex with that guy? You would say Yes, Can you prove that? Oh, again you will say yes, based on your assumptions. But have you seen them both having sex? Now, you cannot prove that. So your accusation holds no value, this is how it goes.

just to let you know Uzma has admitted she has been having on and off relationship with a married man for past couple of years. Their is also a leaked video online of them kissing. This establishes probable cause of illicit relationship that must be further investigated and perhaps put an end to lucrative business being conducted in a massive scale in Pakistani entertainment industry that is working on changing shape of our society.
If we go by your logic, then a rape victim will never get any justice because no one was their to see it. The punishment that Islam offers is too severe for which the criteria is also tough (eyewitnesses), however if a case can be proven even without eyewitnesses then justice is still being served.

Have you listened to one of the ladies who raided the house, where they said to one of their guards to touch the girl, she than yelled at him "I am saying touch her", some even say that she said to take her in the room and touch her, this clearly indicates that they know, they are above the law and can do whatever they want and nobody can touch them.

Im not condoling her behavior but this is a normal behavior in Pakistan. ever heard of a term "teri mai maa/bahen ******!" so then should all those people be arrested? Yes verbal threats should not be allowed but you can not put entire blame in this episode on the wife who was JUST REACTING ON HER WIFELY INSTINCT. If the wife had intention to cause such a harm to those girls trust me she had all the power to do so but she did not chose to go that way. Intention should matter the most, only if their is a probable cause to determine a harm will be inflicted only then an action should be taken. Like if we have a fight in street and we start fighting the chances are we will not have control over our speech but necessarily wont have the intention to do that.

And for that where you said ISI kisi k baap ki jaghir nahi hai, how many times have you used the name of ISI to threaten someone? And it's not someone who is using their name, it is Malik's family, she is even leaving messages to some woman, that I am in trouble call me back, You would be a fool if you are to believe that they have no connections, they sure do and they do exercise them as well. (Btw- what hurts me in this entire event is them using name of ISI and I want them to be punished for that, cannot see that happening, though).

Seriously?
What evidence do you have that the lady on the phone is talking to ISI agent or Malik has a connection with ISI which will serve their faimly's interest? Isnt your whole argument based on "evidence"? Do you have any information that suggest that? Please dont be hypocritical.

Why is that people with connections mentioned the name of connection and that connection never goes on to set an example for these people so that no one can repeat such a thing? Because Daal kali hai.

The irony is, after this baseless speculation of yours this is what you said the very next line.
(
You assume a lot about others, assumptions are assumptions any given day, they cannot conclude towards certainty unless backed by acceptable evidence, so once again, have you watched them having sex?
)
The question to you is, have you watched ISI serve Malik's family interest?

If you live in Pakistan you should know by now that its quite common in Pakistan for someone to use these "imaginary" connections even though they have never have any connection in real life.

If your criteria of accusing someone is their back ground, which we can see from your posts, that what about those Mulana's and people who practice and preach religion, if they are to be accused of something, your criteria says, as per their back ground, they cannot be sinners. Such a idiotic reference or assumption. Going this way even if a person is a sinner in his past and has repented but later accused of something, considering his / her past, he / she shall be charged with offense, lol.

I dont want to prove anything to you about what I think but where did you get an impression that I have any soft corner for Mulana? if you bothered going through my previous posts in many threads that I have been critical of them infact too much sometimes that i get warnings. so u dont even know me.

I am not just accusing them just because of their background but giving you evidence that their is probable cause to further investigate them into their businesses and charge them for which ever law they have broken.


Again, you dont have to watch someone commit a illicit act to charge them.

Here in US their are always sting operations by Law enforcement agencies which will arrest anyone who have not even commit sexual act. And this is an example of one of the most liberal society. Being "Islamic" republic of Pakistan they should have better control over this. Infact they have one of the biggest brothels which are illegal here in many states and will land you in jail. But only in Pakistan they are considered integral part of the society.