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Utility of JH7 for PAF

Jun 12, 2018#101

" The last major naval conflict (I don't mean Iran-Iraq, Iraq-USA) took place between Argentina and the UK. The most potent weapon, by far, was combat aircraft with AShM. There is an entire navy lying underwater in the Falklands thanks to the Exosets. Finally the UK had to beg the French to give them the codes to the French missiles, whereby they were able to negate them. Its quite surprising that PN would not learn the lesson from that conflict"


Youngman,

The more I dug into that old thread---more gems I discovered---.

Jun 12, 2018#103

" See---the examples are right in front of our faces---but for a different generation---. We read what happened and heard it on the news and we also tried to find out more about it---.

Younger people think that as they have not read about it---it does not exist---.

They simply do not have the intellect to learn and ask " how did it happen ".

The Exocet that almost sunk the british naval ship also had come on the wings of an aircraft flying low---as did the iraqi mirage that took out the american ship---.

With these modern Long Range supersonic AShM's---the naval vessels have their work cut out for them---".

Hi,

By the way---JH7A's used ones are up for sale as posted by @Khafee---. Pakistan can get them for pennies on the dollar---or maybe even free---but just for the cost f upgrades---

Hi,

The japanese want an fighter / strike aircraft---but they reject the best of the best for tis size---the F16---.

The japanese knew that to fight its arch enemy---it would have to do a battle over the ocean against the enemy navy---for that it would need heavy potent AShM of the weight range of 1000-KG---and the aircraft carrying that missile would have to carry a minimum / maximum of 2 missiles per aircraft---and not one AShM per aircraft---thus came the design for the F2---.

The japanese knew---that with the coming counter measures---it would be very difficult for AShM missiles to get thru the gauntlet---and if one went thru then it would need to be of a certain minimum weight class---that once it hit a ship---it seriously disabled it if not sunk it---.

Why would the japanese think that way 3 1/2 decades ago---who were technologically more advanced than pakistan---?
 
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Just to help with the conversation, i decided to do a little comparison, hope this helps

JF-17 – BLOCK 2
1161946-JFThunder-1471144699.jpg


Speed = 1,960 km/h (Mach 1.6)

Combat Range = 1,352 km

Payload = 3700Kg

Hard-points = 7 in total (4 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 1 × under-fuselage)

Price = $25-$30Mil

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/fc1xiaolongjf17thund/


F-16 C/D
PAAF-F-16-1.jpg


Speed = 2,414 km/h (Mach 2)

Combat Range = 1.370 km

Payload = 7700Kg

Hard-points = 9 in total (6 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 1 × under-fuselage)

Price = $25-$30Mil

https://www.fighter-planes.com/info/f16.htm


JH-7
118650205756942zs0.jpg


Speed = 1,808 km/h (Mach 1.75)

Combat Range = 1,760 km

Payload = 9000Kg

Hard-points = 9 in total (6 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 1 × under-fuselage)

Price = unknown

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1176


J-11 – Flanker – (Copy Su-27)
spratly-fighterj11.jpg


Speed = 2500 km/h (Mach 2.02)

Combat Range = 1,500 km

Payload = unknown

Hard-points = 10 in total (4 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 2 × under-fuselage, 2 × near air intakes)

Price = unknown

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=883

J-16 – Red Eagle ( Copy SU-30 MKK )
5b088568b9a6f018fd7c39b0215912dd.jpg


Speed = 2450 km/h (Mach 2.0)

Combat Range = 1,500 km

Payload = unknown

Hard-points = 12 in total (6 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 2 × under-fuselage, 2 × near air intakes)

Price = unknown

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1157


J-10 - Vigorous Dragon
J-10a_zhas.png


Speed = 2336 km/h (Mach 1.9)

Combat Range = 1,800 km

Payload = 4490Kg

Hard-points = 11 in total (6 × under-wing, 3 × under-fuselage, 2 × near air intakes)

Price = $27 - $30 Mil

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=599


J-31 - Gyrfalcon
Shenyang_J-31_%28F60%29_at_the_2014_Zhuhai_Air_Show.jpg


Speed = 2200 km/h (Mach 1.78)

Combat Range = 2,000 km

Payload = 8000Kg

Hard-points = 6 in total (6 × under-wing) & Internal

Price = $70 Mil

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1024
 
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JH-7 is an old technology but yes we need a bomber for our Air Force.What we need to do is review our single engine policy.
 
.
Just to help with the conversation, i decided to do a little comparison, hope this helps

JF-17 – BLOCK 2
1161946-JFThunder-1471144699.jpg


Speed = 1,960 km/h (Mach 1.6)

Combat Range = 1,352 km

Payload = 3700Kg

Hard-points = 7 in total (4 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 1 × under-fuselage)

Price = $25-$30Mil

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/fc1xiaolongjf17thund/


F-16 C/D
PAAF-F-16-1.jpg


Speed = 2,414 km/h (Mach 2)

Combat Range = 1.370 km

Payload = 7700Kg

Hard-points = 9 in total (6 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 1 × under-fuselage)

Price = $25-$30Mil

https://www.fighter-planes.com/info/f16.htm


JH-7
118650205756942zs0.jpg


Speed = 1,808 km/h (Mach 1.75)

Combat Range = 1,760 km

Payload = 9000Kg

Hard-points = 9 in total (6 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 1 × under-fuselage)

Price = unknown

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1176


J-11 – Flanker – (Copy Su-27)
spratly-fighterj11.jpg


Speed = 2500 km/h (Mach 2.02)

Combat Range = 1,500 km

Payload = unknown

Hard-points = 10 in total (4 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 2 × under-fuselage, 2 × near air intakes)

Price = unknown

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=883

J-16 – Red Eagle ( Copy SU-30 MKK )
5b088568b9a6f018fd7c39b0215912dd.jpg


Speed = 2450 km/h (Mach 2.0)

Combat Range = 1,500 km

Payload = unknown

Hard-points = 12 in total (6 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 2 × under-fuselage, 2 × near air intakes)

Price = unknown

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1157


J-10 - Vigorous Dragon
J-10a_zhas.png


Speed = 2336 km/h (Mach 1.9)

Combat Range = 1,800 km

Payload = 4490Kg

Hard-points = 11 in total (6 × under-wing, 3 × under-fuselage, 2 × near air intakes)

Price = $27 - $30 Mil

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=599


J-31 - Gyrfalcon
Shenyang_J-31_%28F60%29_at_the_2014_Zhuhai_Air_Show.jpg


Speed = 2200 km/h (Mach 1.78)

Combat Range = 2,000 km

Payload = 8000Kg

Hard-points = 6 in total (6 × under-wing) & Internal

Price = $70 Mil

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1024

Hi,

Please don't copy and paste like the thread started---. Give your own feed---.
 
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exercise already done with J-11 series in Pakistan, when we came out from F-16 craziness, why we don't go J-10C or Mig-35 @HAIDER
J10 is perfect fit, but again it carries Russian AL31 engine. And has no third party export license issued to China.Exact same situation Turkish T129. Even Pakistan engineer helped alot to built this plane and provided Mirage 5 to design this plane.

"
The single-engine J-10C is the current version of J-10 being operated by China’s People’s Liberation Army Air Force or PLAAF. In-service J-10Cs feature a number of improvements over earlier versions, which include a Diverterless Supersonic Inlet, improved electronic warfare capabilities and reportedly an active electronically scanned array radar although they are still powered by the Russian Saturn AL-31 engine.


The J-20, which has recently been declared operational by the PLAAF, is likewise powered by AL-31s, with China’s ability to manufacture high-performance military aircraft engines still maturing despite the WS-10 being used for a number of years on land-based indigenous derivatives of Russia’s twin-engined Flanker combat jets
."
 
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Hi,

This post lacks intelligence---. Is this a joke from a Think Tank member---is he totally clueless---.
@MastanKhan I would not be talking about intelligence if I were you.

Lay off @araz because he talks more sense than you. He has shared some valid points and instead of addressing them, you are attacking him personally.

What is the TWR of WS-9? What is the TWR of JH-7? It is underpowered for sure. Early copies of Spey engine did have problems and some might still be there. What is wrong with saying this much?
 
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J10 is perfect fit, but again it carries Russian AL31 engine. And has no third party export license issued to China.Exact same situation Turkish T129. Even Pakistan engineer helped alot to built this plane and provided Mirage 5 to design this plane.

J10 is perfect fit, but again it carries Russian AL31 engine. And has no third party export license issued to China.Exact same situation Turkish T129. Even Pakistan engineer helped alot to built this plane and provided Mirage 5 to design this plane.
No. J-10C is using indigenous WS-10IPE as we witnessed at 2018 Zuhai air show @HAIDER
 
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Hi,

Please don't copy and paste like the thread started---. Give your own feed---.

That's not just a copy paste, its comparisons between different planes that are or potentially could be available to Pakistan.
 
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Personally i am of the opinion that Pakistan needs to make its own stuff. However i do realize that its currently not possible, so in the meantime Pakistan should opt for more joint ventures just like in the case of JF17s and not just in case of fighter jets but in all fields.

Potential countries apart from China and Turkey are Brazil, South Africa, South Korea, Malaysia and Ukraine.
 
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How about procuring Tornadoes F3....being retired from RAF. 2nd most reliable European jet after French Mirages.

Performance

  • Maximum speed: Mach 2.2 (2,400 km/h, 1,490 mph) at 9,000 m / 30,000 ft altitude; 800 knots, 1,482 km/h, 921 mph indicated airspeed near sea level
  • Combat radius: more than 1,853 km (1000 nmi, 1,151 mi) (subsonic), more than 556 km (300 nmi, 345 mi) supersonic
  • Ferry range: 4,265 km[71] (2,300 nmi, 2,650 mi) with four external tanks
  • Endurance: 2 hr combat air patrol at 560–740 km (300–400 nmi, 345–460 mi) from base
  • Service ceiling: 15,240 m[72] (50,000 ft)
Armament

  • Guns
    • 1 × 27 mm (1.063 in) Mauser BK-27 revolver cannon with 180 rounds (internally mounted under starboard side of fuselage, versus 2× BK-27 mounted on Panavia Tornado IDS)
  • Hardpoints: 10 total (4× semi-recessed under-fuselage, 2× under-fuselage, 4× swivelling under-wing) holding up to 9000 kg (19,800 lb) of payload, the two inner wing pylons have shoulder launch rails for 2× Short-Range AAM (SRAAM) each
  • Others:
    • Up to 2× drop tanks for extended range/loitering time. Up to 4 drop tanks for ferry role (at the expense of 4 Skyflash/AMRAAM).


if i am not mistaken they did and rejected it.
 
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@MastanKhan I would not be talking about intelligence if I were you.

Lay off @araz because he talks more sense than you. He has shared some valid points and instead of addressing them, you are attacking him personally.

What is the TWR of WS-9? What is the TWR of JH-7? It is underpowered for sure. Early copies of Spey engine did have problems and some might still be there. What is wrong with saying this much?
Dont worry.Unlike other people I have the thick skin to take criticism. I have rectified my mistake with regards to spey engine thrust vs RD93/33. The thrust of the Spey engine is marginally higher than RD series so stand corrected. The plane however has been reported as being under powered.As to reliability, the PLAAN refused toaccept initial models in 2002-04 due to reliability issues with the Spey engine. There has been no production of newer models and improvements or not it is (at least currently and for the last 2 years)not being produced. I have the glorious advantage of putting people on ignore lists and moving on. So I dont get riled up about anything.
Kind regards.
A
 
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Sir G, this 'Qalai' part is a wishful thinking, are we using it and any experience of it?
If not, this is the perfect time for fielding and considering it's viability.
Further, why IAF didn't used it on their so called 'mini AWACS' SU-30 on 27-Feb or they were over confident as usual?
You know that was a pun. However the fact remains we are wasting time on a fighter which has been out of production and the parent force in spite of the tech demonstrator has not inducted any more since the original 240 fighters.
A
 
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