USA sold Highly Degraded Versions of M1 Abrams MBTs variants to Saudia, Egypt and Iraq

[Zarvan]

View attachment 211931

We placed our best Tank Guys in both and T 55 was better

 

[Oldman1]

Pakistan placed T-55 in front of Abram during testing and T-55 out classed Abrams

Must have been an awesome test.

 

[MICA]

We placed our best Tank Guys in both and T 55 was better

lets ignore the Huge tech difference between the abrams and the T-55 , but i want to see that test at night with no light and long distance and lets see how is the T-55 gonna outclass the abrams

 

[Donatello]

lets ignore the Huge tech difference between the abrams and the T-55 , but i want to see that test at night with no light and long distance and lets see how is the T-55 gonna outclass the abrams

This was 1980s.........and Pakistan wanted a functioning tank in that particular environment.....hot and dusty......which Abrams has been known to break down in.

So Please....don't embarrass yourself. Not only that, apparently M1 missed 5 out of 8 shots that it fired at a target.

Now you tell me, what good is Night fighting ability if the gun cannot hit the target?

 

[sami_1]

first of all

The Al Khalid main battle tank is the result of a joint venture between China and Pakistan. It is in service with the Pakistani Army.

China began building a tank that was designated the Type 85 MBT. 20% of its components came from the Type 59, 30% came from the Type 69 II, and the other 50% of the components were new. Pakistan built its own variant of the Type 85, which was designated the Type 85 IIAP.

Finally, a new main battle tank, known as the Type 90 II was built. 55% of the components of the Type 90 II were new, while 10% came from the Type 59, 15% came from the Type 69 II, and 20 % came from the Type 85.

Al-Zarrar armor technology crisis


Pakistan pay $6 Million share K-8 Program

Egypt agree with china Produce K-8 But with complete different configuration to


To integrate with the demands of the Egyptian Air Force and raise the level of the plane instead of the cheap version of the British Hawk aircraft to the effective intermediate jet trainer During the two years has been the development of the model K-8E 33 modifications of the aircraft and the use of the US engine instead of the engine Ukrainian And the use of 60% of the structure of composite materials instead of the Chinese model of Pakistan 25% composite materials Full and modify systems for aviation regulations to become more easy to student learning And raising the service life of the plane to 14,000 hours instead of 8000 hours of flight time Chinese themselves say that K-8E something different about the aircraft they have designed
This means a different plane from the project K-8 and the Egypt through the 2001-2011 production of 200 aircraft
110 to Egyptian Air Academy and 40 for the Air Force and 10 jets for the Silver Eagles team and export 40 aircraft across China and African countries The second phase of development of the project K-8E aircraft Been through the replacement of many Chinese components with better TBO and more Resalable after using the plane for several years and to avoid flaws so as to comply with quality standards in the Egyptian Air Force Egypt is made this successful aircraft continued to suffer 10 years of problems and the inability to export and lack of international acceptance After the entry into service in Egypt nations convinced by an one African country phase out K-8 from the service has a simple years after Egypt and has developed to Egyptian quality plane levels and re-entered the service has We simply use any Chinese products, but after development of Western stranded in quality and not buy a cheap product We do not accept levels of quality or efficiency Another example of Egypt produces Chinese plane ASN-209 But after Egypt had been developed locally and with the participation of European countries To become compliant with the global level Any Chinese product is only used as a base for the development of product evolution and more reliable Long years since I saw that Egypt will not buy the
JF-17 you can find my post

plane JF-17https://defence.pk/threads/egypt-mulls-jf-17-co-production.49325/page-25#post-795049


" Only one Word I can Say Keep Dreaming Mr.AZADPAKISTAN2009

JF-17 Not Exceed Performance Even old Mirage 2000 Or F-16 if you speak about avionic
upgraded this fighter better than future JF-17 Blocks and leval of JF-17 not match any fighter in the market it entry level fighter 3629KG payload near for Yak-13/L-15 for comparison and Fc-1 80% performance of F-16A and Rd-93 OR not realty WS-13 China purchase second patch for Rd-93 because not able finished WS-13 and china looking for Ukrania For IL-9500 Engine Development insted of failur WS-13 beside WS-13 copy from RD-13

L-15 Cockpit

We Have Full Control for our Plan and you forget Egypt How Provide Pakistan With With Spare Parts For F-16 Pakistan Fleet and again you try play same game Egyptian F-16 all fleet from 1999 upgraded TO Block 40 go for F-16 Air Forces - Egypt and you can read what i say

and you forget our old staff we have may choices for upgraded with different countries
and egypt use Mirage before against Israel and F-16 we produce Most Spare parts in egypt and sure can use against Israel for real war

again when egypt will looking for new fighter for production in egypt will be in level M1 Abrams and we have another solution exchange M1A1/2 egyptian made with Saudi assemble Euro-fighter many option for egypt

We Have Many Chances For Select New Fighter Su-30/35 , MIG-29M1/2/35 ,J-10B China Propose J-10A Before For 30 Million Dollers Even Rafal Available all this Aircraft No Comparison With Something Called JF-17 WE are in 2010
France not aganist Selling Rafal for egypt many time try many times

You Want Sell Chinese Staff from your side we can go direct as before and you forget We Before Produce F-7 and F-6 and K-8E Without Pakistan if we need realy Fc-1 We can Go direct for The real owner for fighter CAC Why Go for Pakistan For 20% Pakistan Made and Pakistan Assemble you put some photo about chinese Avionic For J-XX Remember It Chinese not Pakistani you only agent for chinese product you put some investement in chinese product we can do same with not only Chinese but also with russian

Egypt Have upgraded E2-C hawk-eye AWACS Since 1987 because pakistan Purchase KLJ-2000 after 21 From egypt own you try again market Chinese staff and we have always other choices from West and East we some propaganda about limit ion for getting equipment if US Not provide us with our requirements We have many choices and many country like Russian Welcome for any Egyptian fighter purchase for high end SU-30/35 or Mig-35

JF-17 with there performance in level L-15 Same trust same avionic and same payload and cheaper $15 millions and AIDS can be integrated in L-15 AS JF-17 with little cost

and don't forget egypt economic trade with chine over 5 Billion dollars
and we have good military relation with china and you forget we before and untill now produce 360 Chinese aircraft in Egyptian factory we are not looking
for same level technology we have we need fighter for tomorrow even pakstina dreaming For JAS-39 C Or NG again looking for something real fighter

Mr.AZADPAKISTAN2009 you can say our fleet 200 F-16 and rest of egyptian fighter not wealthy have no future and downgraded because you believe isreal lie about egypt think for JF-17 keep dreaming "

regards Saudi purchase Al Khalid Tank every body know that Saudi need put Pakistan troops in yemen front to be killed instead of Saudi solder so not for high quality standers AK TANK


States often bought Pakistani military products because of the low price and not quality, but because of labor cheap low and medium technology products and not because they advanced products until Turkey bought Pakistani components because it only cheaper

 

[BordoEnes]

Pakistan placed T-55 in front of Abram during testing and T-55 out classed Abrams

Lets be real here for a sec, thats simply plain bullshitt. Pakistan placing T-55 above Abrams means that it simply fits their requirements and needs better, that doesnt mean Abrams is inferior. There does not exist a more battle-proven tank then Abrams.

 

[MICA]

So Please....don't embarrass yourself. Not only that, apparently M1 missed 5 out of 8 shots that it fired at a target.

i am not the one embarrassing myself here by saying the T-55 is better than the abrams , Ignore me for a sec. and lets see the other guys opinion.

 

[Sinnerman108]

i am not the one embarrassing myself here by saying the T-55 is better than the abrams , Ignore me for a sec. and lets see the other guys opinion.

The comparison they are talking about was done in 80s, when Abrams was younger and yes it did have a lot of issues
with engine and dust.

Think of it this way... USA can afford to take out and slap in a new engine after every say 2000 km.
It has the infrastructure and logistics and the clean fuel supply lines.

Whereas a Pakistani war with India would be head to head clash of armored columns in very dry, very hot desert OR
the same place could turn into VERY wet very cold puddle in a matter of weeks.

We couldn't afford the maintenance on those beasts. That is why in our evaluation it failed.

 

[SipahSalar]

We placed our best Tank Guys in both and T 55 was better

That is simply not true.

lets ignore the Huge tech difference between the abrams and the T-55 , but i want to see that test at night with no light and long distance and lets see how is the T-55 gonna outclass the abrams

Don't listen to him. A vanilla T-55 can never match an Abrams, i don't even know how the T-55 was brought into the discussion. Dollar for dollar, Abrams were unfit for serving in Pakistan Army, PA didn't see it bringing much to the table for the amount of money, fuel and maintenence it required. But can you honestly believed an 1980's Abrams can take on an Al-Khalid? Technology moves forward very fast.
Even an 1980's F-16(no AMRAAMs existed back then) cannot take on a modern JF-17( BVR capable), that does not mean you can say JF-17 is better than F-16. You need to look at details. You have to look at what equipment a plane or tank carries.
Abrams tank certainly carries a lot of prestige because it's American, a lot of American equipment carries prestige, especially amongst arabs, sometimes well deserved and sometimes not. Pakistani military is a very pragmatic force, in their judgement the Abrams did not offer much bang for their buck.

After all, some people have forgotten that training and expertise weighs in combat far more than does technology, and thus a M1 Abrams with an incompetent crew would fare far less brilliantly than would a notional inferior tank with the cream-of-the-crop at its controls.

Reminds me of reading about German conscripts panicking inside Tiger II's and exposing their rear armor. A sword is only as good as the soldier swinging it.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

We placed our best Tank Guys in both and T 55 was better

Against T-55? WTF.

It missed shots,overheated etc and after that we started the AK project .. !

But even at that time .., we had been building T-85IIMs etc which were more advanced than type-59s.

Don't embarass yourself.

 

[Basel]

let us see the true if M1A1 are coffins what about tank based of Chinese T-59 TANK and Ukrainian engine

that kind of thinking not make something like
Al-Khalid Tank value

Pakistani not understand low level technology like AK Khalid & JF-17 not make it superior

high quality product prove it self in the international market

why countries purchase T-50 or K9 and x2 as Korean product very fast and no one interest in cheap PAKISTANI PRODUCT answer quality and high technology and reliability product

instead in blame first staff product and give them understatement
try produce high technology and high quality product

Pakistani have right to proud any thing produce but not have right underestimated other armies

we in Egypt produce more than 1000 M1A1 from 1992 and develop our tank with local technology and foreign and we can investment more money in development

finely if Pakistani can get M1 sure will go for it and not think in junk tanks

Pakistanis have generated good results and performance with mid level tech stuff what Egypt have done with their modern stuff?? why ME countries ask Pakistan to train their soldiers there is a reason for that and that is Pakistanis know how to fight a war with limited resources.

For your information Pakistan refused to purchase M-1s in 80s and it was one good decision, although Zia got killed after watching M-1s performance test.

 

[SipahSalar]

Pakistanis have generated good results and performance with mid level tech stuff what Egypt have done with their modern stuff?? why ME countries ask Pakistan to train their soldiers there is a reason for that and that is Pakistanis know how to fight a war with limited resources.

Yaar, don't make this a Pak vs Egypt thing. Egypt has a very professional army and Egyptians respect their military like Pakistanis respect PA.

 

[Basel]

Yaar, don't make this a Pak vs Egypt thing. Egypt has a very professional army and Egyptians respect their military like Pakistanis respect PA.

I m not doing it, kindly read the post who started it, I just replied.

 

[MICA]

Pakistanis have generated good results and performance with mid level tech stuff what Egypt have done with their modern stuff?? why ME countries ask Pakistan to train their soldiers there is a reason for that and that is Pakistanis know how to fight a war with limited resources.

For your information Pakistan refused to purchase M-1s in 80s and it was one good decision, although Zia good killed after watching M-1s performance test.

talking about what egypt has also done with outdated weapons in 1973 against the high tech israeli army , read something before you throw some BS in the air , Egyptian army is one of the biggest in the region and we know how to use old and new tech

 

[Basel]

talking about what egypt has also done with outdated weapons in 1973 against the high tech israeli army , read something before you throw some BS in the air , Egyptian army is one of the biggest in the region and we know how to use old and new tech

Mods Sorry for being off topic: How many kills does your pilots had against Israeli air force?? PAF pilots have shot down many of their jets while flying for various ME air forces. Israelis massacred your forces once your air defense was neutralized.