US worried over Pak perception of India's role in Afghanistan

[TechLahore]

I wholeheartedly disagree....

The UN resolutions are completely outdated....and to top it all....NOT MANDATORY!
The current resolutions allow UN to act as mediators....less enforcers...any resolution on Kashmir is held hostage to India being on board to discuss....let alone the solution....

Pakistan at the moment has no options where in the UN can force India into action on Kashmir.....so yes....Pakistan does need another resolution on Kashmir...which in the current scenario is a daunting task for Pak.

Secondly, The current solution does not provide "Independence" as an option that greatly hurts the Kashmiri cause.....Pakistan's insistance on the adherence to the 2 options only makes it harder for Kashmiris...


Lastly....Irans importance in "support for Kashmir" is insignificant....especially considering
a. Political clout India enjoys currently
b. World ire Iran faces with its irresponsible actions and comments

I would be surprised if Iran can move a resolution in OIC, let alone the UN.

I think you're off the mark.

Pakistan doesn't need the UN to enforce action against India in Kashmir. As you will see from UN history, getting a resolution is one thing - and yes, certainly a diplomatic victory - but transforming that resolution into sanctions or war is a rarity and it usually only happens when the perm members have a vested interest. That's just the structure of the UN for you. If, on the contrary, you wanted a UN resolution against Pakistan (pick your issue of choice, 26/11, Qadeer Khan etc.), you wouldn't get it either.

Pakistan's official policy is to support the Kashmiris. That's what we have been doing and will continue to do. From Pakistan's standpoint, from the OICs, and indeed the world's (including the US by the way, which may not force India or Pakistan's hand, but does recognize that until Kashmir is resolved, its own interests in the region will be subject to compromise), Kashmir is definitely an open issue. If you throw rhetoric out the window for a moment, I think you will see that this is simply a statement of fact, not chest thumping.

Now, will the Kashmiris be able to achieve their goals? I don't know. I will certainly support them, as will Pakistan, but as they say in Punjabi, maali da kam paani dena, bhar bhar mashkaa'n paaway, malik da kam phal phul lana, laway ya na laway!

The gardener lovingly waters the plants, toil and toil he does
But the Master (Allah)'s word is what the roses wait for, they bloom when and how He wills

[Rough translation]

Finally, what does Iran having the ability to move a resolution have anything to do with this? The President or Supreme Leader of a country can make a statement, it gets reported widely, the Kashmiris benefit from the moral support, the international community is reminded that Kashmir is a burning question of import, Pakistan's diplomacy is vindicated etc. etc. We are not in the business of trying to get a new UN resolution every year... that would be ludicrous.

 

[Peshwa]

I think you're off the mark.

Pakistan doesn't need the UN to enforce action against India in Kashmir.
As you will see from UN history, getting a resolution is one thing - and yes, certainly a diplomatic victory - but transforming that resolution into sanctions or war is a rarity and it usually only happens when the perm members have a vested interest. That's just the structure of the UN for you. If, on the contrary, you wanted a UN resolution against Pakistan (pick your issue of choice, 26/11, Qadeer Khan etc.), you wouldn't get it either.

So if not through the UN, what other "political" means can Pakistan use to get India to resolve Kashmir? Doesnt credibility of cause in the UN add weight to the movement? At least thats how I viewed Pakistani inisitance on the Plebiscite.


As I mentioned, the plebiscite option to me is a dead weight....its not going anywhere...nor is it allowing room for new solutions since India will never agree to hand over Kashmir to Pak. Do you agree with me here?

Pakistan's official policy is to support the Kashmiris. That's what we have been doing and will continue to do. From Pakistan's standpoint, from the OICs, and indeed the world's (including the US by the way, which may not force India or Pakistan's hand, but does recognize that until Kashmir is resolved, its own interests in the region will be subject to compromise), Kashmir is definitely an open issue. If you throw rhetoric out the window for a moment, I think you will see that this is simply a statement of fact, not chest thumping.

Agreed...Though I wouldnt put it as simply as "Pakistan only wants to support Kashmiris"

Lets be honest, by your own admission, you mentioned that countries act out of their own vested interests...Pakistan is no different...

I refuse to buy the altrustic element of this conflict claimed by Pakistan...Pakistanis and their leaders are not stupid to spend 6 decades of man and money to create a new nation of Kashmir.
Its about controlling land, water and most importantly, strategic positioning!

Now, will the Kashmiris be able to achieve their goals? I don't know. I will certainly support them, as will Pakistan, but as they say in Punjabi, maali da kam paani dena, bhar bhar mashkaa'n paaway, malik da kam phal phul lana, laway ya na laway!

The gardener lovingly waters the plants, toil and toil he does
But the Master (Allah)'s word is what the roses wait for, they bloom when and how He wills

[Rough translation]

Nice kahavat....

We as regular people can only do so much to support our beliefs....the rest is destiny!

Finally, what does Iran having the ability to move a resolution have anything to do with this? The President or Supreme Leader of a country can make a statement, it gets reported widely, the Kashmiris benefit from the moral support, the international community is reminded that Kashmir is a burning question of import, Pakistan's diplomacy is vindicated etc. etc. We are not in the business of trying to get a new UN resolution every year... that would be ludicrous.

Yep....Iran's yay or nay does not change the situation one bit....

I was writing my POV on its irrelevance based on your previous comment....

Feel free to ignore since it really adds no weight to either sides argument

 

[SEAL]

Pakistanis claim that Indians are doing terrorism from Afghanistan.

No country in the world accepts that claim.

What to do? Does the problem lie in the Pakistani mind-set.

What world think we don't give a damn we know very well what Indians are doing in A'stan and World saw the coffins of Raw and Indian army personals who killed in Kabul blasts.

 

[TechLahore]

As I mentioned, the plebiscite option to me is a dead weight....its not going anywhere...nor is it allowing room for new solutions since India will never agree to hand over Kashmir to Pak. Do you agree with me here?

We know from Mr. Jaswant Singh and President Musharraf that a solution that is mutually agreeable does indeed exist. I wish it had been acted upon at that golden moment... but for reasons now well known, it didn't.

I think we can make the issue of India and Pakistan's control over Kashmir entirely irrelevant. That was what the Musharraf/Vajpayee solution essentially envisaged.

This issue has to ultimately get solved. The sooner it happens, the sooner the sub continent will be free to move forward with peace and prosperity.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

What world think we don't give a damn we know very well what Indians are doing in A'stan and World saw the coffins of Raw and Indian army personals who killed in Kabul blasts.

Thats not what you wished for, thats the only option you have other than that what else you can say??

And rests are Fake allegations which neither recognaised or accepted by world nor by indians. so, keep doing that no one cares unless you prove it with credible evidence like india did in front of whole world and accepted by everyone(Including your own govermant) and condemn the "pakistan state terrorism in India.

 

[TechLahore]

Thats not what you wished for, thats the only option you have other than that what else you can say??

And rests are Fake allegations which neither recognaised or accepted by world nor by indians.

Let's not go off on that tangent now. India does support terrorism within Pakistan, plain and simple. We've discussed this issue ad nauseum, the Brahamdagh Bugti connection, consulates, arrests of RAW agents this and that. You have your position, we have our position. Let's not make this into a shouting match. Both sides will try to harm the other until the core issues are resolved. That's the way its been since 1947. Let's see what the future holds.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Let's not go off on that tangent now. India does support terrorism within Pakistan, plain and simple. We've discussed this issue ad nauseum, the Brahamdagh Bugti connection, consulates, arrests of RAW agents this and that. You have your position, we have our position. Let's not make this into a shouting match. Both sides will try to harm the other until the core issues are resolved. That's the way its been since 1947. Let's see what the future holds.

Sir, it is not that hard to understand i just wana say.

"Where are the proofs then ?? I remember the incident in which mister rehman malik said in media in pakistan that we got credible proof on india's hand in balochistan and he will send the document to indian goverment, and our FM also said in open media that if you got the proof then send it to us, and look we havn;t recived even a single thread of dossier on that so called "proof" And i remember even pakistan media nai bhi khoob hye hula macchaya tha is baat pr k rehman malik nai bool kr fir proof kyu nahi diya and then qureshi ji said k jab sahi time hoga tab de denge..!! SO ?? what else can one expect then??


"These are purely "Fake allegations " and i know if there was any proof then GOP would neverspared a sec in making to public or sended it to india or UN"

 

[TechLahore]

^^ We've debated this extensively. Don't derail this thread. The net-net is that we would worry about giving you proof if we thought you didn't already know what you're doing. The people on your side who need to know, know darn well. No proof will cause them to change their behaviour because the root cause of animosity will remain unaddressed. Like I said, this has been going on since 1947. Rather than waste energy in preparing dossiers, perhaps the Pakistani establishment wants to deal with this issue in a different manner. In any case, drop this tangent because it will go nowhere. Search the forum and you will find thousands of posts debating this.

 

[SaifullahK]

What world think we don't give a damn we know very well what Indians are doing in A'stan and World saw the coffins of Raw and Indian army personals who killed in Kabul blasts.

Absolutely correct. But it's not just the Indians. Indians could not be in Afghanistan unless the Afghans wanted them. The Afghans also need to be taught a lesson they will never forget. The Americans too.

 

[India Rising]

@techlahore.......why me troll ????????

 

[Peshwa]

We know from Mr. Jaswant Singh and President Musharraf that a solution that is mutually agreeable does indeed exist. I wish it had been acted upon at that golden moment... but for reasons now well known, it didn't.

I think we can make the issue of India and Pakistan's control over Kashmir entirely irrelevant. That was what the Musharraf/Vajpayee solution essentially envisaged.

This issue has to ultimately get solved. The sooner it happens, the sooner the sub continent will be free to move forward with peace and prosperity.

I respect your views here....

Nevertheless....a "possible solution" is only a theory until it materializes....

What I allude to is the fact that there are political forces that could have prevented such efforts ....eg. Indian opposition for one which maybe considered a "negative" of democracy when making such sensitive decisions

And the Musharaff formula only guarantees a solution...NOT peace and prosperity for the Kashmiris that will become the future playground for control between India and Pak...considering that it will be geaographically landlocked mass

My position has always been that the Kashmir movement cannot be resolved until the majority of Indian and Pakistani masses are brought on board to the outcome of the solution.....

As much as in theory, this is a movement that is to resolve the fate of the Kashmiris, it has as much vested interests of the Indians and Pakistanis having spent a lot of our resources (man and money) on this issue...