US, World powers arming India with top-notch weapons against Pakistan :: Asif

[IceCold]

Nah, I think the point was "how are F-16 essential counter insergency weapons?"

NATO is also using F16 and other high tech aircraft for COIN operations, and so is the US, so why not Pakistan.

 

[OrionHunter]

What is there for domestic consumption? Has the US not offered top of the line hardware to India? Nobody is debating in the US congress of use of those weapons against Pakistan but on the other hand a handful of F-16s suddenly become a threat for India.

Icebhai! You missed the point that India PAID every single dime for the purchase of this so called top of the line hardware. But in contrast, Pakistan wants it at concessional rates. Like buy 2 F-16s and get one free! The Yanks want you to pay in full but Pakistan is unable to do so due to financial constraints and so always looking for bargains which the Yanks have now put a stop to.

Pay in full and you can get the best gizmos!

Cheers!

 

[Djinn]

China never bought the JF-17 because they had a better option in the J-10 which is superior.





but as for Pakistan being interested in the Su-35 that makes sense, but no way can Pakistan afford Eurofighters.


if you are unwilling to pay the full price for the F-16 not sure how you can afford $300+ million Eurofighters


going by the Kuwait deal for 28 Typhoons (including weapons and service)

Yes and with reference to J-31 they have J-20. Sometimes they build things just for export. Su-35 and Eurofighter are just rumors

 

[guest11]

1) F-16s were not blocked. They were just not being subsidized anymore. Pakistan was free to take them after paying the full amount.

2) 8 F-16s were too small a number to considered dangerous but India's intent was to spark a debate among US taxpayers and media about money being spent on Pakistan which it successfully did. SO next time Pakistan asks for subsidized "non essentials" like F-16s, frigates, harpoons etc, India will rinse and repeat the same cycle.

3) J-31, whose first flight was 4 years back, still has just one prototype. And there is a good reason for that. If PLAAF is not buying the aircraft, why would Shenyang complete the development for a meagre order of 36-48 units from PAF? Unless PAF is willing to commit to the order similar to JF-17 and pay for at the very least 50% of the development costs, I don't see it happening. Feel free to disagree.

4) Su-35 - Good luck with that.

5) Typhoon - Good luck with that.

 

[Penguin]

NATO is also using F16 and other high tech aircraft for COIN operations, and so is the US, so why not Pakistan.

But we're not asking for them and motivating the request that 8 more are essential (Pakistan already has, what... 84?)

 

[monitor]

Keep the history lessons for another time, India wasnt behind if thats what you tend to imply. Lets talk about present times and foreseeable future.

Present time is harsh reallity of changing geopolitical situation unfolding in Asian region. Once as western ally you were getting US weapons and future is unless you can chose an alternative source of backer and increase defense expending India might rise to a lebel that it will be hard for Pakistan to counter it. I hope Russia china might be the source for Pakistan militarys breathing place.

 

[saaditreen]

i can't understand why US not Provide F-16 he knows Pakistan have need it because Pakistan is know in a War against Terror i think US Not want to make Pakistan Peaceful he is thinking Pakistan will Finished in Future as he show in last movie about Pakistan but No Body know about Strength of Pakistan its not Pakistan its THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN

 

[IceCold]

But we're not asking for them and motivating the request that 8 more are essential (Pakistan already has, what... 84?)

What is your real argument here because i fail to see the point. If the question of F-16 for COIN operation arises than they are being used by US and NATO alike along with other high tech fighters available to them. Pakistan at the moment only has F-16 suitable for precision strike day and night capability and hence our dependability on it. You are not asking because NATO has other advanced platforms to do similar job. We dont and so we asked for 8 more out of which 6 were dual seat versions.

Icebhai! You missed the point that India PAID every single dime for the purchase of this so called top of the line hardware. But in contrast, Pakistan wants it at concessional rates. Like buy 2 F-16s and get one free! The Yanks want you to pay in full but Pakistan is unable to do so due to financial constraints and so always looking for bargains which the Yanks have now put a stop to.

Pay in full and you can get the best gizmos!

Cheers!

Bhaii jan do remember that it was the US who made the offer and not the other way round. I dont discredit the fact that India does not pay every dime and neither should you about Pakistan. The point you people forget or over look it that US offered them with the concessional rate and not otherwise. Pakistan just asked them to honour the original terms of agreement.

 

[LeGenD]

Do remember we did pay the full amount in the 90s only to be sanctioned latter and neither got the jets nor the money. The question here is not the money but the double standards.
I can point you towards another more recent showcase of double standard, a week ago maybe two US were discussing nuclear with Pakistan and that happened right after India tested its new sub marine based weapons. Its one policy for India and completely another for Pakistan. US pushing for India to be fully brought into the NSG while keeping Pakistan out, this has nothing to do with money but the double standards.

Bro,

Yes, I remember that. And fully understand your stance in this matter. Your concern and complaint is absolutely valid. That deal did not work out due to Pressler amendment. However, Clinton administration sought to undo some of the restrictions imposed on sales of military goods and aid to Pakistan through Brown amendment. Therefore, there is still hope in our ties with the US.

We bought 18 (Block 52) F-16 aircraft from the US not long ago. They are the finest aircraft in the inventory of PAF at the moment. Additionally, Americans are improving our aging F-16 fleet through MLU program and also delivered additional F-16 aircraft to Pakistan as compensation for the deal that was not honored in the past and Pakistan's role in War on Terror (WoT).

PAF currently operates a fleet of 76 F-16 aircraft. This wouldn't have been possible without support and sincerity on the part of the US in recent years.

As far as India is concerned, its geopolitical significance differs from that of Pakistan for the US. Pakistan have a tilt towards China and also have its share of differences with the US in the matters concerning Afghanistan. These ground realities complicate our relationship with the US and reduce any chance of favors we can expect from the US.

 

[Woz Ahmed]

But we're not asking for them and motivating the request that 8 more are essential (Pakistan already has, what... 84?)

Mate

Apologies, ironic, but I am a bit of a grammar Nazi, but you mean losers not looser

"Only loosers and weakminded admire Hitler."

 

[Super Falcon]

Ye

Mate it doesn't really matter, the issue at hand is that they can get the same things India is getting. They are making it sound like that US or west is suddenly against them. Which is not the case, US is willing to arm Pakistan also, the only difference being that they would like Pakistan to start offering more for the weapons, which I don't see a issue in. If you wish to compete then please by means buy what India is buying but don't blame other countries for your own lack of effort.


Why the answer is simple we had no money we were barely emerging from the economic crash and we were still considered by the west as a Pro Russian/Soviet Country.

As for the earlier, No country can force you to do something that you don't want to, Pakistan willingly accepted US offer. US basically looked after its interest of beating the Soviets and they did that. You were/are a nuclear power yet you gave other nation and organization full access to your land which in the end caused disaster in your country. Neither US nor the West can be blamed for that.

Yes we blame them for only using blackmailing Smal nations

Our *** hole polititions took us to disaster for few bucks Zia ruined Pakistan

No Pakistani wants us friendship but our political and military leaders raped us

 

[Penguin]

What is your real argument here because i fail to see the point. If the question of F-16 for COIN operation arises than they are being used by US and NATO alike along with other high tech fighters available to them. Pakistan at the moment only has F-16 suitable for precision strike day and night capability and hence our dependability on it. You are not asking because NATO has other advanced platforms to do similar job. We dont and so we asked for 8 more out of which 6 were dual seat versions.

What can you do with 84+8 F-16 that you can't already do with 84?

PAF doesn't have Mirage 5 ROSE III? This upgrade gives an improved night-time precision strike capability to the Mirage with the addition of a new SAGEM navigation/attack avionics suite. IIRC a new PAF squadron was raised on 19 April 2007, No.27 Tactical Attack "Zarrar" Squadron, to operate the Mirage 5 ROSE III fighters and specialize in night-time surface strike missions.

PAF doesn't have JF-17? PT-04 was fitted with a fourth-generation avionics suite that incorporates sensor fusion, an electronic warfare suite, enhanced man-machine interface, Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC) for the RD-93 turbofan engine, FBW flight controls, day/night precision surface attack capability, and multi-mode, pulse-Doppler radar for BVR air-to-air attack capability. In April 2016, Air Marshal Muhammad Ashfaque Arain said that, "JF-17 needs a targeting pod, as the jets’ usefulness in current operations was limited due to lack of precision targeting. To fulfill this gap the Air Force was interested in buying the Thales-made Damocles, a third-generation targeting pod. Why F-16s rather than targeting pods?

 

[Super Falcon]

Ru

Mate

Apologies, ironic, but I am a bit of a grammar Nazi, but you mean losers not looser

"Only loosers and weakminded admire Hitler."

Rubbish it's weak-minded who admire evil Churchill
Hitler took Germany to forever glory from dust

Even today west follow his policies
And Hitler brought lost minds people from ashes of death to life

Look history 1st


Problem is history written by winners and it's no guarantee its true or false they right

Fact is GOD gave every one it's mind to decide right or wrong next problem is people like u don't use their mind they follow path which been given to them right or wrong don't make u think

 

[Woz Ahmed]

Ru

Rubbish it's weak-minded who admire evil Churchill
Hitler took Germany to forever glory from dust

Even today west follow his policies
And Hitler brought lost minds people from ashes of death to life

Look history 1st


Problem is history written by winners and it's no guarantee its true or false they right

Fact is GOD gave every one it's mind to decide right or wrong next problem is people like u don't use their mind they follow path which been given to them right or wrong don't make u think

I hope you realise I was correcting someones tag line , this is not my tag line.

Hitler and Trump and many others in Europe plugged into popular discontent, the easy victims are non Christians and immigrants or in Pakistan we could say non Sunnis, Afghans and everyone else.

 

[IceCold]

What can you do with 84+8 F-16 that you can't already do with 84?

PAF doesn't have Mirage 5 ROSE III? This upgrade gives an improved night-time precision strike capability to the Mirage with the addition of a new SAGEM navigation/attack avionics suite. IIRC a new PAF squadron was raised on 19 April 2007, No.27 Tactical Attack "Zarrar" Squadron, to operate the Mirage 5 ROSE III fighters and specialize in night-time surface strike missions.

PAF doesn't have JF-17? PT-04 was fitted with a fourth-generation avionics suite that incorporates sensor fusion, an electronic warfare suite, enhanced man-machine interface, Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC) for the RD-93 turbofan engine, FBW flight controls, day/night precision surface attack capability, and multi-mode, pulse-Doppler radar for BVR air-to-air attack capability. In April 2016, Air Marshal Muhammad Ashfaque Arain said that, "JF-17 needs a targeting pod, as the jets’ usefulness in current operations was limited due to lack of precision targeting. To fulfill this gap the Air Force was interested in buying the Thales-made Damocles, a third-generation targeting pod. Why F-16s rather than targeting pods?

The question here is about F-16 and its intended use which i have already explained. PAF already said if we get them fine otherwise the job is getting done so the first line of your post becomes moot.
Not every asset is available for WOT, specially Mirages which i believe are stationed for strike roles. JF-17 on the other hand is being used. As for the capabilities of JF-17s its still in their infancy. As per most senior members with better knowledge PAF still prefer Sniper POD for carrying out strike. After the F-16 deal went south, there was some news regarding Thales POD for JF-17.
https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-seeks-thales-damocles-targeting-pod-for-jf-17-aircraft.426680/
Like i said if we get them fine, if we dont things are working.

PS i doubt on your numbers regarding F-16s. We dont have 84.