US-Vietnam discuss Nuclear deal - China concerned

[CardSharp]

The ball is in China's court now, the government needs to avoid knee-jerk reactions and work with friendlier South East Asia countries.

Vietnam's relationships with its neighbors ain't exactly good, if China can persuade other ASEAN countries that U.S is bent on upsetting the strategic balance in the South East Asia in an effort to contain China, then I see this nuclear deal as a free gift handed to China by the U.S.

Another dimension is the power struggle of the pro-US and pro-China factions in the Vietnamese Communist Party is intensifying before next year's party congress, if China openly oppose the deal it will only weaken the hand of pro-China factions.

So China needs to work quietly behind the scene and let Vietnam's neighbors like Cambodia and Laos to voice their concerns.

I think you hit upon a interesting point about what China needs to do and what it is doing with regard to foreign policy with neighbouring countries.

It really hasn't made the effort to solve problems multi-laterally and continues to weld the stick menacingly.

Recall in the 1990's Taiwanese elections, where the CCP thought it could scare the electorate into not voting for the DPP by firing missiles over Taiwan (the pro-separation party in ROC for those not familiar). How did that turn out? It galvanized Taiwanese support against China and gave the DPP a big majority.

The CCP has learned not to do that with Taiwan now and relations have markedly improved in the 2000's with wooing, and sweet heart trade deals. If this episode proves anything it's that the carrot is mightier than the stick.

But this is a lesson the CCP hasn't learned with our other neighbours. As a consequence, the whole neighourhood is all hot and bothered about the rise of China and is running to the US for a counter balance.

 

[CardSharp]

Well, yes of course. But the USA could help both South Korea and Japan with thermonuclear (fusion) devices, miniaturization, MIRV and delivery vehicles (ballistic and cruse) as well as command and control systems for safety. How would China like them apples?

Except they hate you as much as they fear China. Other than that a flawless plan.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Except they hate you as much as they fear China. Other than that a flawless plan.

What a dreamer!! They fear China an order of magnitude more than they hate us round eyes! You gotta be kidding! The Japanese know that our stupid gaijin bumbling can't possibly match the revenge and cruelty of an ascendant China or, for the Koreans, the sense of lordship and superiority that the Chinese would impose over them.

 

[CardSharp]

What a dreamer!! They fear China an order of magnitude more than they hate us round eyes! You gotta be kidding! The Japanese know that our stupid gaijin bumbling can't possibly match the revenge and cruelty of an ascendant China or, for the Koreans, the sense of lordship and superiority that the Chinese would impose over them.

If you say so boss.

 

[whocares]

what has china done to vietnam to incur such hatred in return?

 

[True_Pakistan_Zindabad]

what has china done to vietnam to incur such hatred in return?

Nothing but this is not how the world spins. Vietnam has to have something to gain from garnering hatred from China.

 

[CardSharp]

what has china done to vietnam to incur such hatred in return?

Short answer, we stomped on them for a couple of thousand years.

Long answer - Chinese dynasties have alway demanded fealty from Vietnam and made it a sort of protectorate of imperial China. This wasn't really optional because armies got sent down there if they didn't give it.

In recent history, there was a very close relationship between Vietnam and China, with China helping Vietnam in the war against America. But during 76'-78' Vietnam's new leadership (after Ho Chi Minh died) chose to side with the Soviets against the Chinese and there was a short 1 month war fought against Vietnam with multiple border skirmishes well into the 80's.


Coincidently here is some combat footage between PLA and Vietnamese irregulars in the 80's.
(at the 1:30 mark in the video, you can see the PLA soldier fire a Type 81 assault rifle at some Vietnamese)

 

[whocares]

oh then you deserve the hatred

 

[chauism]

Well, yes of course. But the USA could help both South Korea and Japan with thermonuclear (fusion) devices, miniaturization, MIRV and delivery vehicles (ballistic and cruse) as well as command and control systems for safety. How would China like them apples?

Maybe you have not heard of NPT???

Anyways, for everything you have said above, South Korea and Japan are technological capable themselves. It is just a matter of really short time, if they really want to.

 

[ambidex]

Nuclear deal mean potential nuclear weapon.

Very simple:
Chinese tried to create many pocket of nuclear capable countries withing Asia to increase US headache. Now USA is doing the same. Sometimes your own medicine tastes bitter. Message is clear and loud but transparent. China can opt to empower Iran, Burma, Nth Korea and Pakistan openly now. Australia, India (already in), south Korea may be Indonesia will follow the suit. Taiwan! probably... one nuclear tipped BM in Taiwan Inventory will keep China quite and friendly forever. Way to go USA

 

[chauism]

Nuclear deal mean potential nuclear weapon.

Very simple:
Chinese tried to create many pocket of nuclear capable countries withing Asia to increase US headache. Now USA is doing the same. Sometimes your own medicine tastes bitter. Message is clear and loud but transparent. China can opt to empower Iran, Burma, Nth Korea and Pakistan openly now. Australia, India (already in), south Korea may be Indonesia will follow the suit. Taiwan! probably... one nuclear tipped BM in Taiwan Inventory will keep China quite and friendly forever. Way to go USA

Taiwan had nuclear program starting late 1960, and US even stationed nuclear weapon in Taiwan and guess who stopped them and withdrew the nuclear weapon?

US does not want to see any proliferation of nuclear weapon to anyone including its own allies as much as China.

 

[Nomenclature]

Taiwan! probably... one nuclear tipped BM in Taiwan Inventory will keep China quite and friendly forever. Way to go USA

I do hope you understand that Chinese government is under legal obligation to invade Taiwan if it somehow manages to acquire a nuclear weapon. And why would Taiwan even want a nuke? To become an international pariah and provide a perfect excuse for a Chinese attack?

Anyway, people perhaps are reading too much into this news, U.S and Vietnam signed a MoU for civilian nuclear cooperation as early as 2001. Vietnam will sooner or later get its hands on civilian nuclear technology. Heck, may be even China will market its own nuclear energy technology to Vietnam one day.

 

[Nomenclature]

I think you hit upon a interesting point about what China needs to do and what it is doing with regard to foreign policy with neighbouring countries.

It really hasn't made the effort to solve problems multi-laterally and continues to weld the stick menacingly.

Recall in the 1990's Taiwanese elections, where the CCP thought it could scare the electorate into not voting for the DPP by firing missiles over Taiwan (the pro-separation party in ROC for those not familiar). How did that turn out? It galvanized Taiwanese support against China and gave the DPP a big majority.

The CCP has learned not to do that with Taiwan now and relations have markedly improved in the 2000's with wooing, and sweet heart trade deals. If this episode proves anything it's that the carrot is mightier than the stick.

But this is a lesson the CCP hasn't learned with our other neighbours. As a consequence, the whole neighourhood is all hot and bothered about the rise of China and is running to the US for a counter balance.

I think overall China has managed its reemergence remarkably well. America has guaranteed security in Asia for more than 60 years, and Chinese relation with a lot of its neighbors were plain terrible well into the 1990s. The current relationships between China and most of its neighbors are at historical heights. Of course those countries will do some risk hedging by strengthening security ties with the U.S, while increasing their ties with China. That's a perfectly rational decision on their part. No amount of diplomacy will change that.

I also think some American academics and media are bit full of themselves, and as a result overestimate some of Chinese neighbors' eagerness for working against Chinese interests. For example, right until the Cheoan debacle a lot of American scholars actually believed NK secretly want to forge an anti-Chinese military alliance with the U.S

Chinese diplomacy did make a few major mistakes in the last few years, but overall it's good and moving in the right direction.

 

[owcc]

China has great potential to be the worlds super power.But it has one weakness its closed system.People often find it easier to deal with US as they have an open system of politics and hence easier to trust.Trust cant be bought with a bag of money alone.China has to open up in front of the world for the world to take her hands

 

[mike05]

Nuclear deal mean potential nuclear weapon.

Very simple:
Chinese tried to create many pocket of nuclear capable countries withing Asia to increase US headache. Now USA is doing the same. Sometimes your own medicine tastes bitter. Message is clear and loud but transparent.

Thats a very naive assumption, the US does a nuclear deal with Vietnam assuming they will use it peacefully. If Vietnam decides at a much later time to have their own nuke an arms race will flow thru to Malaysia and Indonesia (which some of the worlds most radical Muslim terrorist train). It would be bad news to countries who have a history of being attacked by terrorist organisations.

China can opt to empower Iran, Burma, Nth Korea and Pakistan openly now. Australia, India (already in), south Korea may be Indonesia will follow the suit. Taiwan! probably... one nuclear tipped BM in Taiwan Inventory will keep China quite and friendly forever. Way to go USA

This logic is like saying US & China should wrap one nuke in a birthday wrapper and sending it to countries they feel would help them.