US Tries to Stifle Chinese Space Advances

[Aramsogo]

Another Chinese racist. "Anglo-Saxon" ?? Do you realize how small the "Anglo-Saxon" population of the USA is??? The US would easily transfer space and ICBM technology to India if India were willing to be a true ally of the USA. India has always hedged its bets and reveled in being "non-aligned". If India ever decided to befriend the USA, then the USA would treat India the same way it treats its NATO allies.

The US won't even give ICBM tech to Canada, you think they trust India ?
US shares a 98% cultural history with Canada. Dream on Indians.
The US doesn't care about your democracy. It has a proud history of supporting dictatorships if it's in the US interest.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Superiority complex BS, much?

Not really. Just wanted to bring a certain member back to earth. Is it really a superiority complex to state a opinion these days?

Thats stretching it a bit too far, aint it? Most, almost all of the Chinese designs are derivatives of ex-Soviet designs. Enuff said. Even the much vaunted Shenzhou craft resembles the Soyuz spacecraft, though its much larger and got its own propulsion system - a definite improvement. So much for an independent program!

The most we got in ballistic missile technology from the soviets was the Soviet copy of the V2,( the R2) before the Sino soviet split in 1960. We had the same German original template as anyone else. A independent propulsion is a rather large difference, and external similarities mean little in actual capabilities, and design genealogy. Are you saying China is not completely independent 2011? China was forced to be independent in 1960, 51 years ago. Are you honestly comparing that to today.

Bottom line, first it was the Soviets, and then the Russians - rather the chaotic Russia of the 90's which 'provided' much of the technologies. Contrast that with Indian spacecraft designs.

You are talking about space technologies? Russia has refused to sell any kind of ballistic missile technology to China after the Sino soviet split. This included the space vehicles that were involved in manned missions. We are quite grateful for that as it has allowed us to make things even they have failed in. Eg. The ASBM. Other military technologies certainly, but they were going bankrupt and we kept them alive from another perspective.

As for the Indian spacecraft, please have an operational launch before trying to convince me.

Good for you! Yayyyyy!!

Just an example of how India is not close to China in the Space sector.

 

[gubbi]

The US won't even give ICBM tech to Canada, you think they trust India ?
US shares a 98% cultural history with Canada. Dream on Indians.
The US doesn't care about your democracy. It has a proud history of supporting dictatorships if it's in the US interest.

India's present business and political posturing is in US's interests. Does that put things in perspective?

 

[Aramsogo]

India's present business and political posturing is in US's interests. Does that put things in perspective?

Not for strategic arms. No way.

And to the person who lives in Virginia and thinks the Anglo-Saxon population in the US is small, there's more to Virginia than the town of Reston. You should get out more.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Not for strategic arms. No way.

And to the person who lives in Virginia and thinks the Anglo-Saxon population in the US is small, there's more to Virginia than the town of Reston. You should get out more.

Hah! I know more about the USA and Virginia than you could EVER hope to know. I don't live in Reston. Although, in my youth, I used to shoot my .22 rifle with my father on the Sunset Hills Farm before Reston was ever built. MY heritage is German, not Anglo-Saxon. You are still a Chinese racist, through and through.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Hah! I know more about the USA and Virginia than you could EVER hope to know. I don't live in Reston. Although, in my youth, I used to shoot my .22 rifle with my father on the Sunset Hills Farm before Reston was ever built. MY heritage is German, not Anglo-Saxon. You are still a Chinese racist, through and through.

German Protestants are also included as the WASP group.

WASP = Protestants with North/West European ancestry.

 

[Mech]

A thread about space and you guys are talking racism. Nice...........why are the chinese boys worried about race so much?

 

[tanlixiang28776]

A thread about space and you guys are talking racism. Nice...........why are the chinese boys worried about race so much?

We can't help it if there are those who like to use racism accusations as the basis of any argument.

 

[Aramsogo]

Hah! I know more about the USA and Virginia than you could EVER hope to know. I don't live in Reston. Although, in my youth, I used to shoot my .22 rifle with my father on the Sunset Hills Farm before Reston was ever built. MY heritage is German, not Anglo-Saxon. You are still a Chinese racist, through and through.

Lol. Saxony is in Germany. Look it up buddy.

I could smell Reston over the Internet. I was 100% right.

And how does saying the US would never transfer strategic arms tech to a non-Anglo-Saxon, non Judeo-Christian country make me a racist?? It makes me a realist.

And who brags about shooting a .22 in Virginia?? People in Virginia are embarrassed to shoot 5.56 NATO.

 

[gubbi]

Not really. Just wanted to bring a certain member back to earth. Is it really a superiority complex to state a opinion these days?

Of course not. The only difference which drew such a comment was your utter disregard or sheer underestimation of India's Space program or capabilities over China's. Agreed we lag behind, but you ought to realize our achievements.

The most we got in ballistic missile technology from the soviets was the Soviet copy of the V2 before the Sino soviet split. We had the same German template as anyone else. A independent propulsion is a rather large difference, and external similarities mean little in actual capabilities, and design genealogy. Are you saying China is not completely independent 2011?

I think you people are mistaken when you say that external similarities mean little. Design genealogy means everything. Thats where learning curve comes from, thats where people learn their mistakes and make improvements in the next model. Similar designs do have similar internal components and functions though there might be significant advances in their technologies. So to suggest otherwise is .....

China definitely learnt from the Soviet space program - mostly from data gleaned from the goldmine that was the 90's Russia. Soyuz for example was preferably controlled from the ground (though it could be independently piloted), for reasons best known to Soviet designers (even their air-combat tactics relied heavily on ground control rather than the pilot!). So adding a propulsion system is not exactly an achievement on a monumental scale.

However, as I see it, as of today, China is independent. I wouldnt say completely, but I am no expert either. But it indeed has come a far way. Kudos to that.

You are talking about space technologies? Russia has refused to sell any kind of ballistic missile twchnology to China after the Sino soviet split. We are quite grateful for that as it has allowed us to make things even they have failed in. Eg. The ASBM. Other military technologies certainly, but they were going bankrupt and we kept them alive from another perspective.

You seem to forget the Russia of 90's. The chaos during Yelstin's reign immediately after the collapse of SU and Russia flirting with democracy resulted in a chaos which many countries took advantage of. Everything was on sale, for the right price. I shall not comment further on this as this is a widely known thing.

Just an example of how India is not close to China in the Space sector.

Faceplam! Keep up the excellent bravado.

 

[below_freezing]

Superiority complex BS, much?

Thats stretching it a bit too far, aint it? Most, almost all of the Chinese designs are derivatives of ex-Soviet designs. Enuff said. Even the much vaunted Shenzhou craft resembles the Soyuz spacecraft, though its much larger and got its own propulsion system - a definite improvement. So much for an independent program!

Bottom line, first it was the Soviets, and then the Russians - rather the chaotic Russia of the 90's which 'provided' much of the technologies. Contrast that with Indian spacecraft designs.

Good for you! Yayyyyy!!

Know math? A derivative of a function is not the original function, the same way a derivative of a rocket is not the same rocket. Russia turned its back on us in 1960, when its own rocket program just got started for a few years. We've already proven that even if we were sanctioned by the whole world, we can keep producing missiles and rockets. That's what it means to be independent. Of course, if you want to be 100% new, thats impossible. China already invented multistage rockets in the 1500's. In a sense, everyone copied China.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

F*ck those drunken ruskies, they don't deserve to take all the credits from our hard work.

 

[HongWu]

India spacecraft design is a PowerPoint slide. Big Deal.
I'm more impressed by the Star Wars movie from 1977.

Actually, that's the same thing with everything Indian. First they announce "XYZ is developed and ready for deployment by end of this year" build up hype and try to get preliminary funding. For India "developed and ready" means it exists in their imagination.

Of course Indians are the technological equals to China. Where China actually needs to spend time and money to research, develop, build and test, Indians just have to dream, make loud claims and then delude themselves in a mass fantasy supported by Indian media. No need to actually research, develop, build or test -- the end result look at LCA and Arjun.

After the Indians humiliate themselves with their obvious inferiority, then they turn around and say "Now we will make improved mark 2 with foreign imports" which just means they'll buy from other countries while deluding themselves that it is indigenous. This is where their dirty politicians make the money too.

Next step, they wave this stuff around at China in a threatening manner because deep down they are envious of us and hate us. Sheesh, there is absolutely no need to put up with these clowns.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Of course not. The only difference which drew such a comment was your utter disregard or sheer underestimation of India's Space program or capabilities over China's. Agreed we lag behind, but you ought to realize our achievements.

I have not underestimated the Indian space sector whatsoever. I made the point on the fact that it has a long way to go before being compared to the Chinese one. Just as I should not underestimate India you should not underestimate China.

I think you people are mistaken when you say that external similarities mean little. China definitely learnt from the Soviet space program - mostly from data gleaned from the goldmine that was the 90's Russia. Soyuz for example was preferably controlled from the ground (though it could be independently piloted), for reasons best known to Soviet designers (even their air-combat tactics relied heavily on ground control rather than the pilot!). So adding a propulsion system is not exactly an achievement on a monumental scale.

I think you should address me instead of you people. China may have learned space vehicles from the Soviets or maybe not. You are simply making guesses here. Independent propulsion is as a large a difference between a rocket launcher and a grenade. As for the rest it is completely irrelevant to the topic.

Design genealogy means everything. Thats where learning curve comes from, thats where people learn their mistakes and make improvements in the next model. Similar designs do have similar internal components and functions though there might be significant advances in their technologies. So to suggest otherwise is .....

Thats the point. There is no suggestion of a similar genealogy between the Soyuz and the Shenzhou besides the un-unique shape. What else do you expect a capsule to look like, a cube? As for components Soviet was not involved. Your hypothetical insinuations are worthless.

However, as I see it, as of today, China is independent. I wouldnt say completely, but I am no expert either. But it indeed has come a far way. Kudos to that.

As you have said you are not an expert. How is China not independent in the space sector? What does it have to import? The last foreign component used in a Chinese ballistic missile was the R2 assembled in 1960.

You seem to forget the Russia of 90's. The chaos during Yelstin's reign immediately after the collapse of SU and Russia flirting with democracy resulted in a chaos which many countries took advantage of. Everything was on sale, for the right price. I shall not comment further on this as this is a widely known thing.

Completely irrelevant. There is no connection to the Chinese space program from this. Do you have anything else besides insinuations?

Faceplam! Keep up the excellent bravado.

Facts are facts. Ignore them if you must.

 

[anon45]

sounds related so...

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