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US Stealth UAV RQ-170 downed in IRAN

it is the time to say
"ah you were right the drone we showed was just a model we made and yours if surely in Afghanistan waiting you find it back"
:D

speaking Between friends :

هی ببینم تو ایرانی هستی

افکارت باعث تاسفه عزیزم

می دونی این توی ایران چه معنی داره
؟

این :

:tup:
 
usa also bird type uav drones
like this 1 that was crashed in pakistan
Bird Like UAV Crash in Western Pakistan | Defense Update
may be china also get access to this bird
birddrone5901.jpg
 
I'd say, they certainly maintained the F-14s well even under sanctions :D

But, they'd better replace them soon though.
why?
our enemy is the US and no airforce can match theirs, why bother. What we have is good enough against the arabs. We have enough deterrents to deter a war against any arab country and our airforce can easily play a defensive role when coupled with advanced ground radars and anti air defenses. Spending money on a modern airforce is a complete waste IMO. The money should go towards R&D for now.
 
Iran has F-14 for over 30 years but unable to produce anything even remotely similar. Stop fantasising.

Do you know the aircraft parts have a specific life ???

think about it baby!!!

iranian REAL fighter jets are HIGH secret

אל תדבר

דבש
 
why?
our enemy is the US and no airforce can match theirs, why bother. What we have is good enough against the arabs. We have enough deterrents to deter a war against any arab country and our airforce can easily play a defensive role when coupled with advanced ground radars and anti air defenses. Spending money on a modern airforce is a complete waste IMO. The money should go towards R&D for now.

The Tomcats Iran uses are still F-14As. And they are aging.

I understand that Iran is going for indigenous aircraft, which is a great initiative. But, developing a bird from scratch is really not easy. The F-5 derivatives are still 70's technology. The engine part of any aircraft is by far the hardest to master.

Foreign help, including ToT can be a powerful option. It just makes the process faster.

By any means, it should replace their aging Tomcats and Phantoms soon.

Air force must always have a high priority for any large country.
 
Iran has F-14 for over 30 years but unable to produce anything even remotely similar. Stop fantasising.
Iran has modified engines and radars of F-14 , (there are reports about new radars in Iranian sources).
Iran also has built prototypes of new turbofan engine based TF-30.
Do you know anything more important than engines and radars in F-14?

Iran also has announced that has already built stealth drones that difference of level of its technology and RQ-170 is not very much?

Maybe you say these are just claims, You have this right, but personally I believe them. I can see signs of their capabilities for example in this recent story.

due high costs of Air force , Iran hasn't invested very much on Air-force till now.Iranian officials always look for cost effective solutions for their military programs. This is another reason why Iran hasn't reverse engineered F-14's totally.
 
The Tomcats Iran uses are still F-14As. And they are aging.

I understand that Iran is going for indigenous aircraft, which is a great initiative. But, developing a bird from scratch is really not easy. The F-5 derivatives are still 70's technology. The engine part of any aircraft is by far the hardest to master.

Foreign help, including ToT can be a powerful option. It just makes the process faster.

By any means, it should replace their aging Tomcats and Phantoms soon.

Air force must always have a high priority for any large country.
Upgrading the airforce will give us the ability to project more power. **** that. We're not after that. An aging airforce can still provide plenty of defense. And yeah, Iran's problem is obviously in the engine department. That's why I'm saying that the billions should go towards R&D not new planes from Russia that bring no long-term benefits.
 
Upgrading the air force will give us the ability to project more power. **** that. We're not after that. An aging air force can still provide plenty of defense. And yeah, Iran's problem is obviously in the engine department. That's why I'm saying that the billions should go towards R&D not new planes from Russia that bring no long-term benefits.
Iran has introduced its first domestically designed and built turbofan engine in an exhibition specially held for supreme leader some months ago.
But there are another unofficial reports about building prototypes of three type of engines.
 
Upgrading the airforce will give us the ability to project more power. **** that. We're not after that. An aging airforce can still provide plenty of defense. And yeah, Iran's problem is obviously in the engine department. That's why I'm saying that the billions should go towards R&D not new planes from Russia that bring no long-term benefits.

Never buy any plane from Russia. Especially in the post Cold War age.

But, you might be able to consider China. Although, their ability to make top notch planes for export in large numbers is limited at the moment. Again, it's all about the engine. And their export planes are likely to initially carry Russian engines

R&D is costly, but worth it in the long term.

Question: Do you think that they'd work on an all new Tomcat? Coz it's my favorite bird ;)

Iran has introduced its first domestically designed and built turbofan engine in an exhibition specially held for supreme leader some months ago.
But there are another unofficial reports about building prototypes of three type of engines.

Turbofan engines? That's big news.
 
Turbofan engines? That's big news.
Yes, some months ago an exhibition of Iran's military achievements was held specially for supreme leader, few photos of this exhibition that was published showed a new version of Malta-ol-Fajr VHF radar with 32 antennas, Iranian made RPG-29, a phased array radar with around 6000 elements and some other technologies.
One of IRGC commanders officially announced that Iran has unveiled its first Turbofan engine in this exhibition .
here is an article about this exhibition :
The Arkenstone -
 
The important thing to recognize is why the US was
flying a radar evading drone in Afghanistan, where the enemy
has no radar.
Well, if it was shot down by Iran, it was shot down by someone
with a radar, no?
 
Iran was 10 years in war, 10 years rebuilding her country, and 10 years improving. I guess they consider F14 as not up to date technology that doesnt worth producing again. The fact that they yet can use them without any foreign support should tell you volumes. Ofcourse if you dont come up with something like USA is giving them helping hand!
And iran is pretty capable in UAVs. You can find in youtube how they managed to take long videos over USS fleet and US wasnt able to bring it down. No one else has ever done that. And there is always israeli UAV which was hacked(?) missed(?) or something like that. Im sure hezbollah doesnt have such technology

Leave these people to their own world. What these people do not understand is that F-14 was only owned by US and Iran. So no other country has any spare parts to offer to Iran. Even its radar and weapons were unique such as AIM-54. United States went to great lengths to starve Iranian airforce by making sure Iran does not have any access to spare parts whatsoever. US even shredded its own F-14's and their spare parts so that they do not find their way to Iran. So this notion that Iran has not copied it is simply wrong. Iran is manufacturing the spare parts of F-14 and that is why they are flying today.

As for the decision to reverse engineer them, I do not think Iranian officials see any benefit by doing that. With meager Iranian defense budget, Iran has to be very efficient in its weapons. Investing tens of billions of dollars in reverse engineering such a plane would suck out funds from other important projects, for example missile and ground based air defense systems, which are more important than to have fighters since these systems provide Iran with asymmetric warfare capabilities. Iranian air force can never become as as large as US air force since Iranian economy is smaller than US that is why it is important for Iran to have asymmetric capabilities that balance out the inequality of power between US and Iran. I am not saying Iran does not need a modern air force, in fact it does and probably they are already working on something but more important for Iran is to have fool proof ground based air defense which is more cost effective than an air force can ever get.

About UAV technology of Iran, suffice to say, Iran was the first country to develop and use an armed combat UAV in its modern sense during 1980's war with Iraq. This UAV had the capability to carry and launch six RPG-7 rounds against targets. Iranians actually invented this concept. Very few know about this, since media does not talk about it, and people automatically think that United States started it all, which is wrong. Later on Israelis picked up on the idea and worked on it and United States bought the technology from Israel. So I would not be surprised if Iranians are having a few more tricks up their sleeves.
 
Am going to give the correct account of what happened with the supposedly 'hacking' of the Predator UAVs to give truly objective readers the background information so they can make a more informed decision about this latest event.

By the time the Predator UAVs became active duty, commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) technologies for the overall UAV program were aggressively pursued to 'enhance' the deployment of UAVs for all branches of the US military in the shortest time possible. But because these technologies were primarily geared for civilian usage, INFOSEC was at best partially relevant and seldom structurally part of the philosophy of any system. INFOSEC matter only at the component level and at the user's discretion, in other words, data are usually transmitted in unencrypted format and its security mattered only upon reception and usage by the receiver. If this receiver needs to transmit this data again, he cannot be certain that the other recipients can decrypt into a usable format, so he decrypt his data then transmit, relying upon the perception that it is too much effort for most people to expend to intercept these tranmissions. It is this kind of built-in vulnerabilities that the US military literally bought from these COTS manufacturers for the UAV program.

For each military UAV, there are two data links that must be available for usage. The generic 'data links' phrasing contains two types of data: video (V) feeds and command-control (C2). For this discussion, they will be referenced as Vf and C2 for brevity's sake.

The C2 signal type is far less common in the COTS technologies for adoption and when the need is for aviation, as in flying an aircraft via remote, the security aspect became prominent, resulting in the additional installation of encryption to protect its integrity.

The Vf signal type is far more common, as in commercial satellite television, in the COTS technologies for adoption.

For example with Hughes...

Defense.gov News Transcript: Transcript : DoD News Briefing : Dr. Paul Kaminski, USD (Acquisition and Technology)
DoD News Briefing : Dr. Paul Kaminski, USD (Acquisition and Technology)

This broadcast satellite has the ability to see the entire theater. We have the potential now, for example, to put a Predator UAV flying over Bosnia, downlink that information to a satellite station, uplink it back into the broadcast location, and put it out to multiple locations on the battlefield.

<snipped>

Q: You talked about a large bandwidth. What kind of bandwidth are you talking about here?

A: We tend to think of bandwidth in terms of megahertz or megabytes. The direct broadcast satellite is capable of providing 30 megahertz of bandwidth. We're initially going to use 23 of that, until we know that we can get the signals and noise and the performance out of the transponders that we need.

There's a second satellite transponder involved in this. We call it VSAT. It's like a business satellite. That transponder has 150 megahertz worth of bandwidth -- or the ability to support at least 12 fully internetted major command and control centers -- as well as the links required to support the Predator and other reconnaissance systems in the theater.

It's hard to compare that in terms of number of normal telephones, if you think of a normal voice telephone using something like 10 kilohertz of bandwidth, we're really talking about the ability to handle the better part of a million phone conversations. So this is orders of magnitude and capability beyond typically what we deploy with our forces forward. So it gives us the foundation for this information revolution.

Q: Can you tell us how much you'll save by using commercial technology?

Kaminski: I can't tell you how much we'll save. What I would say is that there isn't a path to do this, relying on developing something from scratch at a defense base. What we're doing is relying on the commercial-developed base because it's a quick base as well.

Q: Who are the commercial providers?

A: Hughes is the primary provider of direct broadcast TV that you can buy in the United States, and that's the technology we're leveraging off of -- that type of technology.
This was not a DARPA project. The Predator Vf links system was taken directly from the civilian developed technology and with that quick adoption is the built-in vulnerabilities because the disseminator of the data has to assume the lowest common denominator of receivers: No encryption/decryption capability. That is how television transmission/reception works.

uav_line-of-sight.jpg


In both situations, the C2 signals, be it where the UAV pilot is local or in the US, are completely secured. In both situations, the Vf signals that are for local reception are vulnerable for INTERCEPTION, which is the same thing as reception, and that interception is unauthorized. There is a great difference in 'authorized interception' and 'unauthorized interception', but either way, the essence of 'interception' is the interruption of a travel and 'reception' is 'interception'.

This was the early days of controlled UAVs in a war. The justification for encrypting only the C2 signals and leaving the Vf signals unencrypted is that there is only one pilot per UAV but the range of receivers -- or interceptors -- wanting to see real-time videos of the current location or battle can be anywhere from one to one hundred. In the event that there are multiple UAVs in the area, encrypting only the C2 signals is logical because the encryption would protect all of them from conflicting pilot commands, which are interactive. Video feeds are passive. Behind that reception bridge is the Joint Broadcast System (JBS)...

RQ-1 Predator Medium Altitude Endurance (MAE) UAV
Sensor imagery is disseminated from the Predator ground control station via the Trojan Spirit II SATCOM system using the Joint Deployable Intelligence Support System (JDISS) and the Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System (JWICS). Live video is disseminated through the Joint Broadcast System (JBS).
...And once the Vf signals entered the secured network, they are immuned from unathorized interception. But before this bridge is where Iraqi insurgents managed to INTERCEPT the Vf signals. There were no 'hacking' involved. The antennas for these Vf transmissions do not have receiver components behind them, whereas the C2 signals must have those receiver components to accept the remote pilots' and sensor operators' commands. The worst that could happen with these unsecured Vf signals is that of 'data insertion', meaning false data will replace the original Vf signals and make it to the ground receivers.

Drones Are U.S. Weapons of Choice in Fighting Qaeda - NYTimes.com
The urgent need for more drones has meant bypassing usual procedures. Some of the 70 Predator crashes, for example, stemmed from decisions to deploy the planes before they had completed testing and to hold off replacing control stations to avoid interrupting the supply of intelligence.

“The context was to do just the absolute minimum needed to sustain the fight now, and accept the risks, while making fixes as you go along,” Colonel Mathewson said.

It is easier, of course, for the military to take more risks with unmanned planes.
No one from US ever said the system was perfect then and neither is it perfect now. But just as the NY Times article pointed out, the lower the risks for our people, the more we are willing to have a lower IMPERFECTION THRESHOLD with unmanned drones. No one understand this cold and often time cruel calculus than ground troops and if a drone is 75% effective and if it can save a few fellow soldiers, they will accept that drone as one of their own. The reality is that these drones that you people laughed at have done more than 75% despite their imperfections.

P. W. Singer, a defense analyst at the Brookings Institution, said the Predators have already had “an incredible effect,” though the remote control raised obvious questions about whether the military could become “more cavalier” about using force.

Still, he said, “these systems today are very much Model T Fords. These things will only get more advanced.”
So how does it feel to know that the flight control computers (FLCC) of these 'Model Ts' have more flight hours than all your pilots and that these drones also have more combat experience than your entire air forces? :lol:

So for this latest event involving an American drone, is it possible for Iran to 'hack' a triple-DES encrypted real-time two-way airborne C2 link? Intellectual honesty would compel us to leave the 'possibility' option on the table, however, we are under no obligations to accept the 'probability' option. Same for the 'virus' option. There is no logical tie between what happened a few months ago with undisciplined usage of computers in the UAV program and an Iranian source 'virus'. Possible? Yes. Probable? No. That leave the best option for Iran: The human agency aka 'spies' or 'traitors'.
 
^^^^^^^^ whatever you say whatever you do you can not get away from the fact that Iranians did well. lol And hopefully this kit will be copied by enemies of america nad hopefully used soon against americans lol
 
^^^^^^^^ whatever you say whatever you do you can not get away from the fact that Iranians did well. lol And hopefully this kit will be copied by enemies of america nad hopefully used soon against americans lol
You mean the Iranians got lucky, assuming this is real and am willing to be generous that it is.
 

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