US spells out terms of engagement with Pakistan

[El Sidd]

How are you sir you are back from la. ..

Alhumdulilah doing fine.
How you doing Yourself fine Gentleman?

 

[Fawadqasim1]

This the current situation of USA in Afghanistan. They have a failed policy there and they are pointing fingers at every one else.

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I humbly but totally disagree with you sir Their policy or let us say the policy of the deep state (zionist, neocons.etc) is to destroy as many muslim states as they can i think their score is not bad iraq Afghanistan Yemen Syria libya iran economically turkey economically. So

Alhumdulilah doing fine.
How you doing Yourself fine Gentleman?

Sir i missed you

 

[El Sidd]

Sir i missed you

Do not Miss people like me. We are the known unknowns of the society

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Agreed. This is exactly whats happening.

• US support for India is not against Pakistan, but to counter China.
• In return, India's interests (e.g., in Afghanistan) get overlooked (just like Pakistan's nuclear programme was overlooked during the 80's Afghan war), even backed by US. Trumps Afghan policy statement in 2017 can testify to that. But, US still has reservations regarding India-Russia and India-Iran ties... (probably the only point where the two sides differ).
• Chinese must be over the moon after realizing that a country like Pakistan (we are not a small country, nuclear, traditionally US allies, an important geopolitical player) chose to ditch US for them... US overwhelming support for Indian presence in Afghanistan might have accelerated this process.
• Russians, even though apprehensive about India-US ties, realize that this alliance is not directed against their interests. In other words, its China's problem, let them deal with it... however, to counter US's weight in the region, they are building ties with Pakistan as a contingency, just in case India succumbed to US's pressure and decided to let go of the Russians. I say this, because I don't see them threatening India with sanctions, the way US is threatening Pakistan... in fact, they are going ahead with S-400 and Su-35 deal (even when they realize these will be used against China and Pakistan... wtf is Russia up to??... only interested in selling weapons?)... So, I wouldn't count on the Russians to become hostile towards India anytime soon (in fact, it's more likely to be the other way around), even though ties with Pakistan continue to improve...

10/10. Great post. Clear. Concise. Logical.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Do not Miss people like me. We are the known unknowns of the society

No sir you are well known in this forum and i sure elsewhere too

 

[CriticalThinker02]

I agree. Although I am big supporter of China but I think time has come to review every relationship. Nothing is holy and above review. This review must be informed by cold, hard analysis and guided by only Pakistan's self interest.

You sir should be ashamed of yourself to compare a hyena with a Dragon, China has never ONCE betrayed our trust and has always remained a loyal friend while relations with the US has always been filled with lies and deceit, it is not in Pakistan's nature to turn our backs on a faithful ally, we are not the west, we are Muslims and our history and geopolitics have always been on the basis of truth and justice and doing the right thing.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

10/10. Great post. Clear. Concise. Logical.

Us does not want pakistan destroyed but rattled and under its thumb

You sir should be ashamed of yourself to compare a hyena with a Dragon, China has never ONCE betrayed our trust and has always remained a loyal friend while relations with the US has always been filled with lies and deceit, it is not in Pakistan's nature to turn our backs on a faithful ally, we are not the west, we are Muslims and our history and geopolitics have always been on the basis of truth and justice and doing the right thing.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

US support for India is not against Pakistan, but to counter China.

I call that the "China Factor". This was also one of the reasons we lost the 1965 war.

in fact, they are going ahead with S-400 and Su-35 deal (even when they realize these will be used against China and Pakistan... wtf is Russia up to??... only interested in selling weapons?)... So, I wouldn't count on the Russians to become hostile towards India anytime soon (in fact, it's more likely to be the other way around), even though ties with Pakistan continue to improve...

You are on the ball with the Russians. They will not abandon India right now because non of the present Indian move toward US is a direct threat to them but is primarily against China and secondarily against Pakistan. However they know down the road when the Indian/US relationship is consolidate Russia will be abandoned by India and could end up working against it's interests. So you see Russians warming up to Pakistan in preparation for that day. In the meantime gain as much out of weapon sales. Don't forget more they sell helps Russian defence industry to innovate and build next generation of even more deadlier weapons. It's a form of subsidy to Russian defence complex which is why US is not happy about these purchases.

You sir should be ashamed

You, with respect do not have remotest idea of what is being discussed. The concept of "shame" or "ashamed" is not even applicable in what we are talking about. This discussion is about the cold, hard chess game being played by nation states on a global chessboard. Emotion, sentiment do not have any room in this.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

You, with respect do not have remotest idea of what is being discussed. The concept of "shame" or "ashamed" is not even applicable in what we are talking about. This discussion is about the cold, hard chess game being played by nation states on a global chessboard. Emotion, sentiment do not have any room in this.

Even in a cold, hard chess game emotion does play a factor, you just don't see it or choose to ignore it but emotion of any sort is intrinsic human nature and even on the grandest of scales it can be a weakness or a source of strength but only a fool would choose to ignore it.

When benjamin netanyahu delivers a speech in-front of Congress and receives a standing ovation emotions plays as much a part as any-other logical prowess.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

10/10. Great post. Clear. Concise. Logical.

I call that the "China Factor". This was also one of the reasons we lost the 1965 war.

You are on the ball with the Russians. They will not abandon India right now because non of the present Indian move toward US is a direct threat to them but is primarily against China and secondarily against Pakistan. However they know down the road when the Indian/US relationship is consolidate Russia will be abandoned by India and could end up working against it's interests. So you see Russians warming up to Pakistan in preparation for that day. In the meantime gain as much out of weapon sales. Don't forget more they sell helps Russian defence industry to innovate and build next generation of even more deadlier weapons. It's a form of subsidy to Russian defence complex which is why US is not happy about these purchases.

You, with respect do not have remotest idea of what is being discussed. The concept of "shame" or "ashamed" is not even applicable in what we are talking about. This discussion is about the cold, hard chess game being played by nation states on a global chessboard. Emotion, sentiment do not have any room in this.

But sir respectfully how can we discount the needs and influence of american military industrial complex. And its Owners it's financiers the banks (Federal Reserve) and almost the whole us industry which are their subcontractors and so on will it be logical.

Even in a cold, hard chess game emotion does play a factor, you just don't see it or choose to ignore it but emotion of any sort is intrinsic human nature and even on the grandest of scales it can be a weakness or a source of strength but only a fool would choose to ignore it.

When benjamin netanyahu delivers a speech in-front of Congress and receives a standing ovation emotions plays as much a part as any-other logical prowess.

e. g sometimes in the case of india and pakistan

 

[Indus Pakistan]

When benjamin netanyahu delivers a speech in-front of Congress and receives a standing ovation emotions plays as much a part as any-other logical prowess.

Netanyu could give million speeches with truckloads of emotion but it would have no impact. Underlying all is the Jewish lobby inside USA and the Christian Evengelicals in USA who call the shots. Netanytu just plays on what already exists. Real hard politics underpins the so called emotion.

And talking of the word you used "betrayel". May I ask when Musharaf made a U-turn with the Taliban Muslim government in Kabul in 2001 by giving USA airbases, ports, highways to attack Afghanisan what would you call that? Cold hard self interest? Survival instinct? Self over others? Dollars over fellow Muslims? What?????

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Real hard politics underpins the so called emotion.

Real hard politics embraces human nature for ones own self interest, foolish politics underestimates it.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

And while you muse over that. Those who betray rarely say they betrayed. Those who steal very rarely say they stole. Those who murder very rarely say they murdered. Those who cheat very rarely admit they cheated.

Think about that before you make your tall claims. It pays sometimes to be objective and not get carried away with your own bullshat.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

And talking of the word you used "betrayel". May I ask when Musharaf made a U-turn with the Taliban Muslim government in Kabul in 2001 by giving USA airbases, ports, highways to attack Afghanisan what would you call that? Cold hard self interest? Survival instinct? Self over others? Dollars over fellow Muslims? What?????

From my own personal analysis and assessment I do not see Musharaf making a U-turn.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Netanyu could give million speeches with truckloads of emotion but it would have no impact. Underlying all is the Jewish lobby inside USA and the Christian Evengelicals in USA who call the shots. Netanytu just plays on what already exists. Real hard politics underpins the so called emotion.

And talking of the word you used "betrayel". May I ask when Musharaf made a U-turn with the Taliban Muslim government in Kabul in 2001 by giving USA airbases, ports, highways to attack Afghanisan what would you call that? Cold hard self interest? Survival instinct? Self over others? Dollars over fellow Muslims? What?????

Sir both evangelism and zionism are what rational and logical i will call it a plethora of negative emotions