Are you claiming that the soldiers should have thought "Wow, these guys are hanging out longer than normal, they must not be Taliban!" Come on, that is silly.
No, but this was an ample evidence that 'something was wrong'. This is known as 'reading of the battle', a must have quality for every military commander, which yours evidently seemed to be lacking. The commander ordering or allowing a strike dont just shut down his coms and go for out for a beer break, but keeps on 'listening' to the battle reports and then continuously modify his plans basing on the received info.
Not every battle is 'fire and forget', it's not like 'hey, take these 10000 rounds, 400 artillery shells and 200 bombs, just dump them over the target and let me know when your are finished, i am out taking a nap'. i dont say that the US military is unprofessional like this, but what your military did on Nov 26 only strengthen my fears.
The way to wage war is to pound with overwhelming force and firepower. That's how you win.
Again, in battle, you hit, hit hard, keep hitting. This isn't a medeival jousting match. There's nothing supposed to be fair about it.
Exactly!
Is it because of this approach of yours the US is shyt-slinged by every weak Nation?
Is it because of this approach that 100% of Pakistanis are calling you guys murderers and butchers?
And expansionist and terrorist america are otherwise a norm these days.
i agree that there isnt anything fair about war, but we are living in 2011 arent we? What happened to Liddell Hart's
"Indirect Approach" (lower causalities, upsetting the equilibrium of the enemy, not by excessive force but superior strategy -
Clausewitz in English: Chapter 15) as opposed to Napoleon's
"Absolute War" and Clausewitz's
"Total War" (civilian populations should not be safe from abuse from warring armies, total war, in the Clausewitzian vision, pitted entire societies against one another.
All an enemy's territory, property, and citizens were potential targets. Indeed, the
more ruthless, merciless and complete an army's tactics, the more likely Clausewitz believed their victory to be.
Total War)
As far as i know (after studying in a few US military institutions), you guys follow Hart, not Clausewitz, until you guys proved it otherwise on Nov 26!
BTW, as it seems you have been away from the military for quite sometime now, i must tell you that the world (not only the US) as of today has shifted AWAY from Clasewitzian school of thought of Total/Absolute War.
There have been dozens of engagements with the real enemy with a magnitude much greater than this clash. Look it up.
i dont doubt that. The recent history (in Iraq and Afg War) bears testimony to excessive use of force by the US military.
Though i still agree with you and maintain that there isnt anything fair in war. 9/11 stood witness to this, but then what differentiates terrorists from organized militaries? Morals, no?
This is simply crude and not worthy of a response. You think the average soldier enjoys killing people? And you claim prior military service?
I've already realized that there's not a thing I can say to convince people that these troops were not out there "laughing and enjoying the turkey-shoot of Pakistani soldiers" and that this image has sadly been burned into the minds of millions of people via pop media imagery and verbal descriptions of the "blood-thirsty ISAF animals". Thus we are presumed to be "street thugs" and much worse. And it's one of the reasons I've avoided this topic. Too much emotion.
I don't know how else to say it. Negligence, yes. Intent, no. No soldier or group of them is going to unilaterally create a horrendous international incident and risk everything so they can "satisfy their lust for Pakistani blood."
Dont get me wrong, please. i dont blame the men on ground and those in the air attacking our posts and then enjoying, they were just following orders, but i cant say the same for the commanders overlooking the operation on your side. Sorry, this just dont get digestible after reading the step by step inquiry report of yours.
P.S This post is not for noobs, only those having knowledge of military history should respond, i dont want to ruin this important thread by teaching Clausewitz and Moltke to people who dont know them.
