US report says Pakistan unwilling to pursue militants

[jahangeer yousaf]

well i am actually enjoying the USA and NATO suffering in afghanistan and yeiling over pakistan threatning pakistan by showing different aspects ..... but so far kiyani is determind ........ and if kiyani stays determind i believe america and ally will be on their knee .........
and other option they have to attack pakistan ...... i dont think nato or america will dare to take us on ...... bcuz we are not afghanistan or iraq plus they both are on disadvantage bcuz all the supply goes through pakistan ..... and when they do not have oil,food,bullets they cannt fight .......... and plus mullah omer gonna support pakistan ............

 

[LeGenD]

well i am actually enjoying the USA and NATO suffering in afghanistan and yeiling over pakistan threatning pakistan by showing different aspects ..... but so far kiyani is determind ........ and if kiyani stays determind i believe america and ally will be on their knee .........
and other option they have to attack pakistan ...... i dont think nato or america will dare to take us on ...... bcuz we are not afghanistan or iraq plus they both are on disadvantage bcuz all the supply goes through pakistan ..... and when they do not have oil,food,bullets they cannt fight .......... and plus mullah omer gonna support pakistan ............

I really don't buy this 'we are not afghanistan' and 'we are not Iraq' like statements. What message do we intend to give?

One can also say that 'USA is not India' than. We need a wake up call.

Americans are not stupid. They will not fight with us like they did in Iraq or Afghanistan. If they want to teach us a lesson than they would use different approach or means. They keep a dynamic approach to conflicts in which they now get involved.

And initiating war with the Americans would be the most stupid thing we would ever do. We have already suffered from conflicts with India and you are asking for more?

Thus far, the response of Pakistan to NATO's incursions have been beyond our expectations and we have played our trump card well. However, we don't need to waste this trump card.

Our ultimate goal (as a nation) is survival and stability and not self-destruction.

Another thing is that Afghan Taliban may no longer be as sympathizing to us as it was prior to invasion of Afghanistan. They might have harbored a feeling of betrayal within them after the hell they had been through. If Pakistan and USA finally decide to fight with each other, than one can only imagine the laughs Taliban would have. They will be winners, and the so called allies - the loosers.

Problem is that we are too emotional.

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

I really don't buy this 'we are not afghanistan' and 'we are not Iraq' like statements. What message do we intend to give?

One can also say that 'USA is not India' than. We need a wake up call.

Americans are not stupid. They will not fight with us like they did in Iraq or Afghanistan. If they want to teach us a lesson than they would use different approach or means. They keep a dynamic approach to conflicts in which they now get involved.

And initiating war with the Americans would be the most stupid thing we would ever do. We have already suffered from conflicts with India and you are asking for more?

Thus far, the response of Pakistan to NATO's incursions have been beyond our expectations and we have played our trump card well. However, we don't need to waste this trump card.

Our ultimate goal (as a nation) is survival and stability and not self-destruction.

Another thing is that Afghan Taliban may no longer be as sympathizing to us as it was prior to invasion of Afghanistan. They might have harbored a feeling of betrayal within them after the hell they had been through. If Pakistan and USA finally decide to fight with each other, than one can only imagine the laughs Taliban would have. They will be winners, and the so called allies - the loosers.

Problem is that we are too emotional.

i do not think being emotional is our problem this is our plus point ........ nops taliban will not betray us but i cannot be sure about karzai ...............well you have valid point that america can say we are not indians ........ and yes america will use india to invade pakistan ........
and you know what this will be our chance ...... i still remember the day when india was thinking to attack pakistan after mumbai drama we were all together ....................
and if america tries to attack by himself along with india on other side i bet my money that SCO Block is there to block the invasion from America and Allies ...............
no doubt we played our trump card but it was do or die situation now or never ....................
now just believe in ALLAH ...........
we are just 314 or 313 i dont remember xactly ........ but we survived by the help of ALLAH not only we survived infact we won with the help of ALLAH .......... sometimes facts and figures do not count ........... because if you think about facts and figures you gonna lose in armagddon but we will win INSHALLAH that's ALLAH's promise ..... i believe in ALLAH this country came into being that was miracle this country is surviving even after having leader lyke zardari and musharaf that is miracle i can count for another miracle and i aint getting emotional i am just telling you that is what i believe

 

[VCheng]

i do not think being emotional is our problem this is our plus point ........ nops taliban will not betray us but i cannot be sure about karzai ...............well you have valid point that america can say we are not indians ........ and yes america will use india to invade pakistan ........
and you know what this will be our chance ...... i still remember the day when india was thinking to attack pakistan after mumbai drama we were all together ....................
and if america tries to attack by himself along with india on other side i bet my money that SCO Block is there to block the invasion from America and Allies ...............
no doubt we played our trump card but it was do or die situation now or never ....................
now just believe in ALLAH ...........
we are just 314 or 313 i dont remember xactly ........ but we survived by the help of ALLAH not only we survived infact we won with the help of ALLAH .......... sometimes facts and figures do not count ........... because if you think about facts and figures you gonna lose in armagddon but we will win INSHALLAH that's ALLAH's promise ..... i believe in ALLAH this country came into being that was miracle this country is surviving even after having leader lyke zardari and musharaf that is miracle i can count for another miracle and i aint getting emotional i am just telling you that is what i believe

All I can say in response to this is: Please Calm Down!

Belief is good, but not sufficient, to win wars.

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

All I can say in response to this is: Please Calm Down!

Belief is good, but not sufficient, to win wars.

we can hope for the best i aint saying that we should wage a war.........not at all .......... we should do it in our defense ... i aint being hostile but IF i am saying it again IF we have been pushed to edge then we should not back off

i hope you understand it now

 

[softtec]

A few things you should know:



3) Consider that the US is constantly oscillating between, "we'll pull out in 2011" and "well, it won't be a *real* pullout". It is not trivial to plan a sustained military op on the Afghan border with these vacillations going on all the time.


4) Until foreign forces are in Afghanistan, there will always be a Pushtun resistance. Whether you call it Taliban or something else, that's up to you. The real way to tone down the conflict in this region is to allow the Afghans to manage their own affairs while assisting them with $$$.

Hi TechLahore, your analysis were nice until I read the above.I have few questions :
1) How does it matter for Pakistan to attack in NW, if US pullout or not.What do u think PA likes US to leave or stay there?

2)So what do u think, what will happen after foreign forces leave Afghanistan. So after that there will not be any "Pushtun resistance"!!
What they will be doing then?

3)How you will allow Afghans to manage their own affairs.Which Afghans? You must know that how they will manage also.They were managing before 2001 also.Right? And you show grievances that "US left us(PAK and Afghan) after soviets gone".

Thanks

 

[VCheng]

we can hope for the best i aint saying that we should wage a war.........not at all .......... we should do it in our defense ... i aint being hostile but IF i am saying it again IF we have been pushed to edge then we should not back off

i hope you understand it now

Thank you for that post, I think I understand your point of view a bit better now.

 

[LeGenD]

i do not think being emotional is our problem this is our plus point ........ nops taliban will not betray us but i cannot be sure about karzai ...............well you have valid point that america can say we are not indians ........ and yes america will use india to invade pakistan ........
and you know what this will be our chance ...... i still remember the day when india was thinking to attack pakistan after mumbai drama we were all together ....................
and if america tries to attack by himself along with india on other side i bet my money that SCO Block is there to block the invasion from America and Allies ...............
no doubt we played our trump card but it was do or die situation now or never ....................
now just believe in ALLAH ...........
we are just 314 or 313 i dont remember xactly ........ but we survived by the help of ALLAH not only we survived infact we won with the help of ALLAH .......... sometimes facts and figures do not count ........... because if you think about facts and figures you gonna lose in armagddon but we will win INSHALLAH that's ALLAH's promise ..... i believe in ALLAH this country came into being that was miracle this country is surviving even after having leader lyke zardari and musharaf that is miracle i can count for another miracle and i aint getting emotional i am just telling you that is what i believe

Brother, being emotional is not a good point and due to this very reason, we have so much instability and insecurity in our country.

We should learn to be rational and cool minded. Another thing is that ALLAH almighty never asks of you to have suicidal tendencies. If you plan to jump from a high rise building, do you think that you would survive the fall by thinking that ALLAH almighty will save you? That brain of yours (one of the many gifts from ALLAH almighty) would caution you against such a move, if it is accustomed to rational thinking.

No one is going to challenge Pakistan (mark my words) unless the other party is provoked to an extent that an amicable solution no longer works. The world will still discourage any conflict in South Asia. Twice we had been threatened by India after 9/11, and in both cases, India had to back down.

Pakistan wanted to make NATO realize its importance and sacrifices in WOT. Pakistan wants to be respected as a nation and not treated like a dog and the lives of people of this nation are not so cheap. This is what kayani intended to convey to NATO and he did it well.

Do you think that our current COAS has suicidal tendencies? I hope not.

Our relationship with USA is currently under-going a tense phase. Americans want this region to be free of radical elements which support Al-Qaeda and promote terrorism. This is why it pressures Pakistan to take measures against such elements, which is not a bad thing. Now don't tell me that you want to be ruled such fundamentalists.

I would peronaly fully support a pious man in power who strictly adheres to Islamic teachings and implements true shariah. However, I don't want mullahs with guns approaching my home to tell me that it is time for me to do this and that on every day basis.

War with America (the so called great Satan) is not a solution to our problem. Even if America wants to find an excuse, we should not give them any. The only way to counter American influence or threat is by eliminating our dependency upon them. For this, we need some major societal reforms.

How do you think that Iran manages to confront America for its issues? Does it have the military might to challenge USA? Nopes. The main thing is that it is a stable and independant nation. And such nations have no weaknesses.

Unfortunately, in our case, Americans can find lots of weaknesses and exploit them against us. Welcome to the world of Imperialism where brains > guns.

 

[TechLahore]

Hi TechLahore, your analysis were nice until I read the above.I have few questions :
1) How does it matter for Pakistan to attack in NW, if US pullout or not.What do u think PA likes US to leave or stay there?

2)So what do u think, what will happen after foreign forces leave Afghanistan. So after that there will not be any "Pushtun resistance"!!
What they will be doing then?

3)How you will allow Afghans to manage their own affairs.Which Afghans? You must know that how they will manage also.They were managing before 2001 also.Right? And you show grievances that "US left us(PAK and Afghan) after soviets gone".

Thanks

1. It matters very significantly, but I don't want to explain this point. You are free to disregard.

2. After the foreign forces leave Afghanistan, then there will no single flag of national resistance and it will come down to individual groups vying for power. In this environment, money will go a long way to calm things down.

3. All the Afghans, with a pro-rata participation extended to all groups, as should have been the case since day one. As for Pakistan complaining about the post-Soviet abandonment, you have it all wrong. No one complained about American *people* leaving. Everyone complained about a) the financial support and backing being completely pulled and b) the issue no longer occupying any importance in US strategic thinking or policy formulation. We don't need western boots on the ground in Afghanistan for reconstruction to happen, but Afghanistan is a very poor country and it does need financial assistance. Before 2001 there was no financial assistance from the US, nor any help extended by international donors of any consequence at all.

 

[SMC]

Who gives a ****. We're engaged on lots of fronts and are overstretched. Can't do so much at once. Plus they (NATO) can't do **** about this.

 

[Jackdaws]

Who gives a ****. We're engaged on lots of fronts and are overstretched. Can't do so much at once. Plus they (NATO) can't do **** about this.

Maybe not now. But they will remember.

 

[Gazzi]

Whatever Pakistan has to do is one thing, but Pakistan's problems are emanating from beyond our boundaries. India, Afghanistan and the US needs to stop exporting terrorism to Pakistan as well.

Asim, I have been through this one before.......countries like India, our No. 1 ENEMY, lets not forget that word, ENEMY, not a friend of any kind, an ENEMY should be responded to in a similar fashion. All the PA needs to anounce is in a very diplomatic, academic language, that "the mandate of the ISI is going to change and become once more India centric", I bet not just shockwaves will run through India, who know full well that attacks on their economical powerhouse will bring their great aspirations of a growing economy away, but there support for terrorists will end very very quickly.........it will give them alot to think about, I guarantee, there outlook of outstanding issues will change massively.......

 

[Perceptron]

We should learn to be rational and cool minded. Another thing is that ALLAH almighty never asks of you to have suicidal tendencies. If you plan to jump from a high rise building, do you think that you would survive the fall by thinking that ALLAH almighty will save you? That brain of yours (one of the many gifts from ALLAH almighty) would caution you against such a move, if it is accustomed to rational thinking.

No one is going to challenge Pakistan (mark my words) unless the other party is provoked to an extent that an amicable solution no longer works. The world will still discourage any conflict in South Asia. Twice we had been threatened by India after 9/11, and in both cases, India had to back down.

Pakistan wanted to make NATO realize its importance and sacrifices in WOT. Pakistan wants to be respected as a nation and not treated like a dog and the lives of people of this nation are not so cheap. This is what kayani intended to convey to NATO and he did it well.

Do you think that our current COAS has suicidal tendencies? I hope not.

Our relationship with USA is currently under-going a tense phase. Americans want this region to be free of radical elements which support Al-Qaeda and promote terrorism. This is why it pressures Pakistan to take measures against such elements, which is not a bad thing. Now don't tell me that you want to be ruled such fundamentalists.

I would peronaly fully support a pious man in power who strictly adheres to Islamic teachings and implements true shariah. However, I don't want mullahs with guns approaching my home to tell me that it is time for me to do this and that on every day basis.

War with America (the so called great Satan) is not a solution to our problem. Even if America wants to find an excuse, we should not give them any. The only way to counter American influence or threat is by eliminating our dependency upon them. For this, we need some major societal reforms.

How do you think that Iran manages to confront America for its issues? Does it have the military might to challenge USA? Nopes. The main thing is that it is a stable and independant nation. And such nations have no weaknesses.

Unfortunately, in our case, Americans can find lots of weaknesses and exploit them against us. Welcome to the world of Imperialism where brains > guns.

Terrific words of Precise, clear thinking ; I find another person of the League of Sparklingway in you sir. I wish we only had more people like you not only virtually (over @ PDF), but even physically (in Pakistan). Two way up !!!

 

[Peshwa]

Asim, I have been through this one before.......countries like India, our No. 1 ENEMY, lets not forget that word, ENEMY, not a friend of any kind, an ENEMY should be responded to in a similar fashion. All the PA needs to anounce is in a very diplomatic, academic language, that "the mandate of the ISI is going to change and become once more India centric", I bet not just shockwaves will run through India, who know full well that attacks on their economical powerhouse will bring their great aspirations of a growing economy away, but there support for terrorists will end very very quickly.........it will give them alot to think about, I guarantee, there outlook of outstanding issues will change massively.......

I think you have failed to do a thorough analysis of the benefits to loss as a result of such a move....

The reason why 9/11 and 26/11 were such a massive deal for US and India is because Terrorists (emanating from AF and Pak) attacked
the economic centres of these countries....

By openly declaring a "covert" war against India, you not only strengthen the cause to retaliate against Pakistan, but also justify it....Plus dont forget that Pakistan needs external support to wage a war against India.....Even China being a close ally would be wary of supporting a nation that openly supports terrorism!

At this point, the bogey of "non-state actors" has prevented linking any terrorism to the state of Pakistan......are you suggesting that you be vocal about this link? Hasnt Musharraff provided the first clue already?

Think again my friend.....

 

[SMC]

^ O rly? China has been supporting us for 60 years despite us 'openly supporting terrorists' as you put it. And no modern links have been proven, hence the argument doesn't even stand and is false to irrelevant to begin with.

Also, Musharraf is most likely talking about the 80s and 90s. Hence "the bogey of non-state actors" still stands. And think about it, who outside India cares about our support for Kashmiri freedom fighters? All they do is report, no one cares.