US report says Pakistan unwilling to pursue militants

[Vassnti]

For Pakistan, I think that "acceptable way" cannot stop short of a NATO commitment - public or private - that manned aircraft incursions or ground incursions will not occur in future.

Perhaps a few points this raises you might have time to clarify.
If such a commitment was given what would happen in a situation where hostile forces fire on US/Afghan positions from the pakistan side of the border?

Also though in these days of GPS idealy every one should know where they are in relation to borders but no one is perfect and mistakes do happen, what ROE would you consider acceptable in the case that such an accident did happen and the border was crossed?

 

[karan.1970]

Asim, I have been through this one before.......countries like India, our No. 1 ENEMY, lets not forget that word, ENEMY, not a friend of any kind, an ENEMY should be responded to in a similar fashion. All the PA needs to anounce is in a very diplomatic, academic language, that "the mandate of the ISI is going to change and become once more India centric", I bet not just shockwaves will run through India, who know full well that attacks on their economical powerhouse will bring their great aspirations of a growing economy away, but there support for terrorists will end very very quickly.........it will give them alot to think about, I guarantee, there outlook of outstanding issues will change massively.......

Over estimation of one's capability is always detremental. If ISI was so great and RAW was so inefficient, the conditions of India and Pakistan should have been reversed at this time.

And the mandate of ISI has always been India Centric for whole of its existence. The term Geedar Bhabhki surely comes to mind

 

[Peshwa]

^ O rly? China has been supporting us for 60 years despite us 'openly supporting terrorists' as you put it. And no modern links have been proven, hence the argument doesn't even stand and is false to irrelevant to begin with.

It seems you're not playing dumb.....

As suggested by the poster, do you really believe that China would back Pakistan in a war that emanates due to "open support to terrorism" by Pakistan against India?
Please give me a break....Ive heard some Pakistanis like living life in fantasy.....and you're not proving them wrong at all....

Scenario, esp wrt. Islamic Terrorism has changed since 9/11.....what was once a tool to beat the Soviets has become a curse to mankind....
China with its Uighirs is not new to this either....

What modern links do you need? The fact that you Prez admitted it? Or that 26/11 terrorists were from Pak? Or that Hafiz Saeed is openly allowed to challenge the writ of a secular nation and call to arms for Jihad?

At this point, the reason why the world is giving Pakistan a "break" is because of its participation in WOT.....but please dont be fooled that the open support to terrorism, in what essentially is a world war against it is going to win you any friends....

Also, Musharraf is most likely talking about the 80s and 90s. Hence "the bogey of non-state actors" still stands. And think about it, who outside India cares about our support for Kashmiri freedom fighters? All they do is report, no one cares.

I mean, god forbid another 26/11 type massacre takes place linking it to Pakistan and you will be showered with "care and affection" from the world ....

 

[pakdefender]

Over estimation of one's capability is always detremental. If ISI was so great and RAW was so inefficient, the conditions of India and Pakistan should have been reversed at this time.

And the mandate of ISI has always been India Centric for whole of its existence. The term Geedar Bhabhki surely comes to mind

indeed over estimation of one's capability is detrimental just like india has made a fool of it's self in the hosting of the common wealth games with bugs floating in the swimming pool , to dirty living conditions and the latest being the athletics track getting damged in the opening cermony and being relaid just day before the track events start!

Indeed we must learn from our neighbour and never over estimate ourselves

 

[pakdefender]

It seems you're not playing dumb.....

As suggested by the poster, do you really believe that China would back Pakistan in a war that emanates due to "open support to terrorism" by Pakistan against India?
Please give me a break....Ive heard some Pakistanis like living life in fantasy.....and you're not proving them wrong at all....

Scenario, esp wrt. Islamic Terrorism has changed since 9/11.....what was once a tool to beat the Soviets has become a curse to mankind....
China with its Uighirs is not new to this either....

What modern links do you need? The fact that you Prez admitted it? Or that 26/11 terrorists were from Pak? Or that Hafiz Saeed is openly allowed to challenge the writ of a secular nation and call to arms for Jihad?

At this point, the reason why the world is giving Pakistan a "break" is because of its participation in WOT.....but please dont be fooled that the open support to terrorism, in what essentially is a world war against it is going to win you any friends....



I mean, god forbid another 26/11 type massacre takes place linking it to Pakistan and you will be showered with "care and affection" from the world ....

Pakistan does not support terrorism , its indians that supported terrorists in East Pakistan and now support terrorists in FATA and Baluchistan.

 

[General General]

Hi TechLahore, your analysis were nice until I read the above.I have few questions :
1) How does it matter for Pakistan to attack in NW, if US pullout or not.What do u think PA likes US to leave or stay there?

2)So what do u think, what will happen after foreign forces leave Afghanistan. So after that there will not be any "Pushtun resistance"!!
What they will be doing then?

3)How you will allow Afghans to manage their own affairs.Which Afghans? You must know that how they will manage also.They were managing before 2001 also.Right? And you show grievances that "US left us(PAK and Afghan) after soviets gone".

Thanks

Majority of the Afghan government and military heads belong to the minority, Northern Alliance. You can never rule a majority with a minority peacefully. Remember South Africa? Remember the Apartheid? Pashtuns feel left out of their own country. The NA was backed by Soviets against the Pashtun mujaheddin and Paksitan. Remember the recent wikileaks? Majority of those reports were prepared by interviewing Afghan intelligence officials who belonged to the NA. So, of course they wouldn't have anything nice to say about Pakistan. The way I see it, Pakistan wants a friendly and trustworthy neighbour to the western border so that it may not have to divert considerable resources and attention in that direction the way it does on it's eastern border. If Pakistan eliminated the Afghan Taliban, there wouldn't be any friendly members left to the west. You have to remember the fact that the Pashtuns has never concerned with the rest of the world, as long as they have their land.

 

[SMC]

It seems you're not playing dumb.....

As suggested by the poster, do you really believe that China would back Pakistan in a war that emanates due to "open support to terrorism" by Pakistan against India?
Please give me a break....Ive heard some Pakistanis like living life in fantasy.....and you're not proving them wrong at all....

Scenario, esp wrt. Islamic Terrorism has changed since 9/11.....what was once a tool to beat the Soviets has become a curse to mankind....
China with its Uighirs is not new to this either....

What support from China are you talking about? China attacking India if India attacks Pakistan? I never expect that to happen. I thought you were referring to material support.

What modern links do you need? The fact that you Prez admitted it? Or that 26/11 terrorists were from Pak? Or that Hafiz Saeed is openly allowed to challenge the writ of a secular nation and call to arms for Jihad?

Very short-sighted logic, I see. Here's the problem - Pakistani state supporting separatists in the 80s and 90s does not mean they are supporting them now. Just like India supporting terrorists inside Pakistan in 1971 does not imply they are doing it now. One doesn't follow from the other, and it should be quite obvious that I shouldn't have to explain it.

As far 26/11 is concerned, **** hasn't been proven, so it doesn't matter.

As far as Hafiz Saeed is concerned, just like RSS and VHP is allowed to spread hate, so is he.

At this point, the reason why the world is giving Pakistan a "break" is because of its participation in WOT.....but please dont be fooled that the open support to terrorism, in what essentially is a world war against it is going to win you any friends....

Again, faulty premise that we're openly supporting terrorism. Hence the rest of this quote is irrelevant.

I mean, god forbid another 26/11 type massacre takes place linking it to Pakistan and you will be showered with "care and affection" from the world ....

Please avoid using sarcasm as it intentionally misrepresents one's argument and then attacks the misrepresented argument, besides the rare cases when it doesn't. Yours is not the rare case, I am afraid.

As far as my point is concerned, I was specifically talking about support for Kashmiri freedom fighters. You are talking about something else.

 

[Peshwa]

Pakistan does not support terrorism , its indians that supported terrorists in East Pakistan and now support terrorists in FATA and Baluchistan.

Last I remember, the WOT is an ongoing conflict in the tribal regions of Af-P.A.K......

Not to be nit-picky....but I dont recall Drones hunting for terrorists in Indian regions....

So....Pakistan is infested with terrorists....what is yet to be uncovered is the link between them and the state.....

I wish your country the best of luck that no such link exists!

 

[pakdefender]

Last I remember, the WOT is an ongoing conflict in the tribal regions of Af-P.A.K......

Not to be nit-picky....but I dont recall Drones hunting for terrorists in Indian regions....

So....Pakistan is infested with terrorists....what is yet to be uncovered is the link between them and the state.....

I wish your country the best of luck that no such link exists!

How and why would Pakistan support terrorists against its own self , terrosits have conducted more attacks in Pakistan than any other place in recent times.

Obviously its our enemies who fund these terrorists , and we all know who the enemy is.

The Americans have openly said they support millitant/terroists afghan groups to conduct killings in Pakistan

http://rupeenews.com/2010/09/22/is-the-cias-army-waging-secret-war-on-pakistan-another-name-for-ttp/

indians are more sly they are working in the shadows of the US in afghanistan to support terrorists in Pakistan.

Go bluff somewhere else , at least some of us know what india is upto.

 

[Peshwa]

What support from China are you talking about? China attacking India if India attacks Pakistan? I never expect that to happen. I thought you were referring to material support.

Fair enough....lets move along

Very short-sighted logic, I see. Here's the problem - Pakistani state supporting separatists in the 80s and 90s does not mean they are supporting them now. Just like India supporting terrorists inside Pakistan in 1971 does not imply they are doing it now. One doesn't follow from the other, and it should be quite obvious that I shouldn't have to explain it.

Uh...yes it does!!

India achieved its objective.....hence supporting Mukti Bahini was a means to an end....which resulted in our objective of breaking away E.Pak...it is but obvious that such support is of no use in present day scenario....

Nevertheless, Kashmir is still in Indian control and has been for the last 60 years...
Unless your demand for Kashmir has changed and you are ready for a peaceful solution to Kashmir under the Indian constitutiion, I do not see how Pakistan has stopped supporting Kashmiri terrorism...

Besides....the fact that plots like 26/11 are still being hatched in your country and that LET still exists in a morphed "charitable" state...there is little doubt that such support is still provided by Pak.....we only need to wait until the ugly head crops up again with evidence....

How many times will Pak keep blaming "non-state actors"?

As far 26/11 is concerned, **** hasn't been proven, so it doesn't matter.

What hasnt been proven? That it emanated and was planned in Pak? Or that LET was a creation of Pak? Or that it still lives large in pak?

As far as Hafiz Saeed is concerned, just like RSS and VHP is allowed to spread hate, so is he.

Show me one speech where RSS and VHP have asked for a call to arms to blow up Pakistanis and propogate war against your state?

Next show me where Pakistan as a state has made a public outcry over VHP and RSS....

Nevertheless, India has pin-pointed the leader of a terror org who still continues his ways under the nose of the GOP and PA unchecked!

Again, faulty premise that we're openly supporting terrorism. Hence the rest of this quote is irrelevant.

I was responding to the poster who suggested that Pak should support terrorism overtly via ISI.....
I mentioned that it would be the biggest blunder Pakistan can make....in a growing list now...

Please avoid using sarcasm as it intentionally misrepresents one's argument and then attacks the misrepresented argument, besides the rare cases when it doesn't. Yours is not the rare case, I am afraid.

As far as my point is concerned, I was specifically talking about support for Kashmiri freedom fighters. You are talking about something else.

SMC....I am surprised that you think in the current scenario, the world differentiates between a Taliban and a Kashmiri terrorist....

Thanks to the worldwide reach of these militants......Terrorism is clubbed...whether it is for a freedom, for ideology or otherwise....

No one is going to justify the killing of civilians as was the case in 26/11 or 9/11 to support freedom...for Kashmiris or otherwise...

 

[Peshwa]

How and why would Pakistan support terrorists against its own self , terrosits have conducted more attacks in Pakistan than any other place in recent times.

Obviously its our enemies who fund these terrorists , and we all know who the enemy is.

The Americans have openly said they support millitant/terroists afghan groups to conduct killings in Pakistan

http://rupeenews.com/2010/09/22/is-the-cias-army-waging-secret-war-on-pakistan-another-name-for-ttp/

indians are more sly they are working in the shadows of the US in afghanistan to support terrorists in Pakistan.

Go bluff somewhere else , at least some of us know what india is upto.

I would have enjoyed engaging in a decent conversation with you my friend.....but then you chose to bring your back up....."Rupee News"....

Now Im sorry....but unlike Moin Ansari...my mind isnt that creative to come up with fake news and conspiracy theories....

So I am going to respectfully decline!

---------- Post added at 07:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------

How and why would Pakistan support terrorists against its own self , terrosits have conducted more attacks in Pakistan than any other place in recent times.

Obviously its our enemies who fund these terrorists , and we all know who the enemy is.

The Americans have openly said they support millitant/terroists afghan groups to conduct killings in Pakistan

Woodward exposes CIA Army waging secret war on Pakistan– aka TTP Rupee News

indians are more sly they are working in the shadows of the US in afghanistan to support terrorists in Pakistan.

Go bluff somewhere else , at least some of us know what india is upto.

I would have enjoyed engaging in a decent conversation with you my friend.....but then you chose to bring your back up....."Rupee News"....

Now Im sorry....but unlike Moin Ansari...my mind isnt that creative to come up with fake news and conspiracy theories....

So I am going to respectfully decline!

 

[pakdefender]

hehe indian making quick edits and posting in double

 

[pakdefender]

I would have enjoyed engaging in a decent conversation with you my friend.....but then you chose to bring your back up....."Rupee News"....

Now Im sorry....but unlike Moin Ansari...my mind isnt that creative to come up with fake news and conspiracy theories....

So I am going to respectfully decline!

---------- Post added at 07:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------




I would have enjoyed engaging in a decent conversation with you my friend.....but then you chose to bring your back up....."Rupee News"....

Now Im sorry....but unlike Moin Ansari...my mind isnt that creative to come up with fake news and conspiracy theories....

So I am going to respectfully decline!

this charade of labeling everything as 'conspiracy theory' will also blow up in time.

For long time people supsected that the United States intentionally infects people in developing countries with harmful diseases and people like you would come saying oh this is just a conspiracy theory and then one day the truth comes out and such like people just shut up.

Here see what I mean
BBC News - US sorry over deliberate *** infections in Guatemala

 

[SMC]

Uh...yes it does!!

India achieved its objective.....hence supporting Mukti Bahini was a means to an end....which resulted in our objective of breaking away E.Pak...it is but obvious that such support is of no use in present day scenario....

Nevertheless, Kashmir is still in Indian control and has been for the last 60 years...
Unless your demand for Kashmir has changed and you are ready for a peaceful solution to Kashmir under the Indian constitutiion, I do not see how Pakistan has stopped supporting Kashmiri terrorism...

Besides....the fact that plots like 26/11 are still being hatched in your country and that LET still exists in a morphed "charitable" state...there is little doubt that such support is still provided by Pak.....we only need to wait until the ugly head crops up again with evidence....

How many times will Pak keep blaming "non-state actors"?

Honestly, this is amazing. So since Pakistan doesn't have Kashmir, it is supporting separatists there? So by that logic, Pakistan was also supporting separatists there in 2003-2008 when there was no activity there? Because that's what your post implies, that since Pakistan doesn't have Kashmir, it must be supporting extremists there.

People talk about clear cut and not so clear cut logical fallacies - this is right there in the clear cut one since the conclusion in no way follows from the premise.

So your argument is that since LeT exists in Pakistan, it is supported by Pakistan? So therefore, TTP, LeJ, SSP must be supported by Pakistan too then, I guess?

You will have to blame non-state actors unless you can prove otherwise.

What hasnt been proven? That it emanated and was planned in Pak? Or that LET was a creation of Pak? Or that it still lives large in pak?

That it was carried out by the Pakistani state.

Show me one speech where RSS and VHP have asked for a call to arms to blow up Pakistanis and propogate war against your state?

Next show me where Pakistan as a state has made a public outcry over VHP and RSS....

Nevertheless, India has pin-pointed the leader of a terror org who still continues his ways under the nose of the GOP and PA unchecked!

The famous speech by the a? I am sure you have seen it.

As far as Pakistan making public outcry over VHP and RSS, what is the relevance of that argument? Does that it suggest that VHP and RSS must not be doing what I said?

You have proven nothing regarding Saeed other than only making allegations. People make hate speeches all over the world. You can't jail them for that. End of the story.

SMC....I am surprised that you think in the current scenario, the world differentiates between a Taliban and a Kashmiri terrorist....

Thanks to the worldwide reach of these militants......Terrorism is clubbed...whether it is for a freedom, for ideology or otherwise....

No one is going to justify the killing of civilians as was the case in 26/11 or 9/11 to support freedom...for Kashmiris or otherwise...

Kashmiri terrorist doesn't affect them. How many people in the west care about it? How often is it discussed in the media or by the state? If it doesn't affect them, it's almost as if it's not happening.

 

[Peshwa]

Honestly, this is amazing. So since Pakistan doesn't have Kashmir, it is supporting separatists there? So by that logic, Pakistan was also supporting separatists there in 2003-2008 when there was no activity there? Because that's what your post implies, that since Pakistan doesn't have Kashmir, it must be supporting extremists there.

People talk about clear cut and not so clear cut logical fallacies - this is right there in the clear cut one since the conclusion in no way follows from the premise.

So your argument is that since LeT exists in Pakistan, it is supported by Pakistan? So therefore, TTP, LeJ, SSP must be supported by Pakistan too then, I guess?

You will have to blame non-state actors unless you can prove otherwise.

Well....I can most definitely prove "Intent" which I have done with the above....

Couple that with the fact that LET was a creation of Pak state (verified by your ex-Prez)....has been allowed to fester and grow in the guise of a charitable org....even though it has been unequivocally banned by the UN....

It has already been confirmed that Pakistan supported Terrorism in India......
What you cannot prove is that you stopped supporting them....since they still exists and plot attacks from your territories.....

Since you ask for proof, why not show me proof that the support has been removed? What measurable actions have been taken to remove this support? You expect us to believe your word when your intent to hurt us still exists?

Kashmiri terrorism has always been a Pakistani creation.....if it pops its ugly head Pakistan will always be the accused......

On the other hand, TTP, BLA etc are not Indian creations....nor do they use Indian lands to plan attacks or enter your country...

The famous speech by the a? I am sure you have seen it.

Huh? Im sorry its been a long day....can you please identify?

As far as Pakistan making public outcry over VHP and RSS, what is the relevance of that argument? Does that it suggest that VHP and RSS must not be doing what I said?

You have proven nothing regarding Saeed other than only making allegations. People make hate speeches all over the world. You can't jail them for that. End of the story

.

Has the hate speeches of RSS and VHP caused any acts of terrorism in Pakistan, or a call to Jihad against Pakistan?

Can the same be said about Hafiz Saeed who's LET has been a shining beacon of terrorism?....Do the math....

It becomes even more imp to curb HS since he is a prime accused in 26/11 and if you need India to be on ball to talk abt peace....then learn to shut these clowns....
The fact that you dont speaks tons for Pakistani intent...

Kashmiri terrorist doesn't affect them. How many people in the west care about it? How often is it discussed in the media or by the state? If it doesn't affect them, it's almost as if it's not happening.

Then why is LET planning international plots? Danish newspapers, headley etc ring a bell?
Shouldnt Kashmiri terror be confined to Kashmir? So yes the world does care....
More for its own safety....but increasingly more as Indian clout is furthered....which gives weight to our opinion!