US Pushes Georgia into NATO: MAP is Option Again

[Armstrong]

@nangyale - Why aren't you this interested in talking about Pakistani Topics ?

We feel so unloved !

 

[nangyale]

@nangyale - Why aren't you this interested in talking about Pakistani Topics ?

We feel so unloved !

And I feel honored that you think my opinion about Pakistani topics matters.
Respect to you Sir

 

[flamer84]

When Soviet Union collapsed the rump Russian Federation was in no shape to defend itself, let alone some one outside its borders
It has been an uphill struggle that Putin started in the years 1999,2000, and has been on going ever since.
To begin it was the Russian Federation itself that was under threat and had almost lost parts of it's territory to mafiastas,
That conflict was ended and the reconstruction of Chechnya started from 2005 onwards and is still ongoing.

The next phase was making a precedent and letting the world know that Russia can defend it's citizens in the near abroad. So when Georgia attacked Tshinkvali with grad rockets (a war crime in itself) Russia had the perfect pretext to put that theory in to action. The West huffed and puffed but couldn't do anything to stop the Russian war machine.
Russia liberated South Ossetia and Abkhazia and could have even taken the whole of Georgia. But the point proven and the precedent was set.

The third phase is what we are seeing today, Crimea is on the verge of becoming part of Russia and if there is any persecution of Russians and eastern Ukraine, Russia has the parliamentary approval to respond militarily. I think it will be wise for the US to accept a federalist Ukraine with autonomy for the eastern and southern states or things can get quite ugly.

Once Russia is done with Ukraine then it will the turn of the Baltic states. They have to treat all their citizens equally. But if they are intent on making Apartheid states and keep treating their fellow citizens as second class. Then time for reckoning be will be upon them.

Yeah keep dreaming.Those russans will be treated as what they are:colonists brought in after 1945 while the native balts were kjilled and deported.They have no right to influence elections or to have sensitive positions within the state because as we see in Ukraine they are not citizens of their state but traitors.

Russia will deal with it as it did until now,it can't touch a NATO/EU member.But you can dream like every other russian nationalist out there.Until than,i will go by facts not wishfull thinking.

 

[nangyale]

Yeah keep dreaming.Those russans will be treated as what they are:colonists brought in after 1945 while the native balts were kjilled and deported.They have no right to influence elections or to have sensitive positions within the state because as we see in Ukraine they are not citizens of their state but traitors.

Colonists, hmm by that logic all the white population of the US should be stripped of their voting rights and only natives should be allowed to vote and govern, right? Are you going to recommend the same for Israel/Palestine as well?

Russia will deal with it as it did until now,it can't touch a NATO/EU member.

You keep saying that to yourself, if it makes you sleep better at night.
NATO cannot be touched.
NATO cannot be touched.
NATO cannot be touched.

But you can dream like every other russian nationalist out there.Until than,i will go by facts not wishfull thinking.

I gave you plenty of facts in my previous post. Want some more? Read it again.
By the way, Who told you that I am Russian? Don't you see my origin flag.
You are making me laugh

 

[flamer84]

Colonists, hmm by that logic all the white population of the US should be stripped of their voting rights and only natives should be allowed to vote and govern, right? Are you going to recommend the same for Israel/Palestine as well?


You keep saying that to yourself, if it makes you sleep better at night.
NATO cannot be touched.
NATO cannot be touched.
NATO cannot be touched.


I gave you plenty of facts in my previous post. Want some more? Read it again.
By the way, Who told you that I am Russian? Don't you see my origin flag.
You are making me laugh

Yeah right,a pakistani posting pro russian propaganda all day long.

Hit me up with this conversation again when Russia invades a NATO member,until then don't bother.

I am not talking about 18-19th century but after 1945-50-60 years ago,your point is mute.

 

[nangyale]

Yeah right,a pakistani posting pro russian propaganda all day long.

What's the problem with a Pakistani debunking anti-Russian propaganda?

Hit me up with this conversation again when Russia invades a NATO member,until then don't bother.

Patience my dear. There is a time and place for everything

I am not talking about 18-19th century but after 1945-50-60 years ago,your point is mute.

Colonists, hmm by that logic all the white population of the US should be stripped of their voting rights and only natives should be allowed to vote and govern, right? Are you going to recommend the same for Israel/Palestine as well?

Answer the bold part then, if you only want to talk about 50-60 years time frame.

 

[flamer84]

What's the problem with a Pakistani debunking anti-Russian propaganda?


Patience my dear. There is a time and place for everything




Answer the bold part then, if you only want to talk about 50-60 years time frame.

The cases are completely different.The Baltics are independent countries starting 1991 while the Israel/Palestine affair is an ongoing conflict.There's really nothing to compare.

 

[nangyale]

The cases are completely different.The Baltics are independent countries starting 1991 while the Israel/Palestine affair is an ongoing conflict.There's really nothing to compare.

So we have a preacher of selective justice here.
One person one vote is the rule of the game. Equal opportunities for all. No discrimination, on the basis of race, gender or political point of views.
Are you forgetting the European Convention on Human Rights.
Being new to EU maybe you don't know about it yet.
If there is discrimination the oppressed have a right to resist and a right to seek help from outside of their national boundaries.

 

[flamer84]

So we have a preacher of selective justice here.
One person one vote is the rule of the game. Equal opportunities for all. No discrimination, on the basis of race, gender or political point of views.
Are you forgetting the European Convention on Human Rights.
Being new to EU maybe you don't know about it yet.
If there is discrimination the oppressed have a right to resist and a right to seek help from outside of their national boundaries.

The EU has analysed and approved as legitimate the policies of the Baltic countries.If the russians don't like it they are free to go back to Russia,the place where they were brought after 1945 at the detriment of native balts who got killed and deported.

Russia tried to change the ethnic make up of those countries with deportations and imports of colonists.This is the result,this is on them not on the Baltics.After 1991 those russians should have been expelled but they were awarded clemency on that.

Let's see those "colonists" in the Baltics rise up.

Funny how former colonised people cheer the colonisation of others,your own sufferings haven't tought you nothing.That's a pitty.

 

[nangyale]

The EU has analysed and approved as legitimate the policies of the Baltic countries.If the russians don't like it they are free to go back to Russia,the place where they were brought after 1945 at the detriment of native balts who got killed and deported.

Look dude. I don't care what EU has analysed and approved. Injustice is injustice if it approved or not. As far your assertion about 1945, let me remind you that the baltic states were part of Tsarist Russia as well. Before the SU liberated them from Nazi occupation. So don't go about just parroting one date.

Russia tried to change the ethnic make up of those countries with deportations and imports of colonists.This is the result,this is on them not on the Baltics.After 1991 those russians should have been expelled but they were awarded clemency on that.

SU did a lot of things. They actually changed the German and Polish borders too (just to give you one example) shall we go about deporting the Poles from those areas now and hand them back to Germany.
And while we are at it maybe we shall hand over your country back to Turkey. Remember the Ottomans.

Let's see those "colonists" in the Baltics rise up.

Funny how former colonised people cheer the colonisation of others,your own sufferings haven't tought you nothing.That's a pitty.

Also why do you want to side step the Israeli/Palestinian question. If you are such a champion of the rights of native population then you should support the right of return of the Palestinian refugees as well.
Don't be such a hypocrite.

 

[flamer84]

Look dude. I don't care what EU has analysed and approved. Injustice is injustice if it approved or not. As far your assertion about 1945, let me remind you that the baltic states were part of Tsarist Russia as well. Before the SU liberated them from Nazi occupation. So don't go about just parroting one date.


SU did a lot of things. They actually changed the German and Polish borders too (just to give you one example) shall we go about deporting the Poles from those areas now and hand them back to Germany.
And while we are at it maybe we shall hand over your country back to Turkey. Remember the Ottomans.



Also why do you want to side step the Israeli/Palestinian question. If you are such a champion of the rights of native population then you should support the right of return of the Palestinian refugees as well.
Don't be such a hypocrite.

Come with decent arguements and we will discuss ,i can not discuss separate issues,the Baltics didn't start a war against Russia after a UN approved partition plan.You bring nothing to the discussion besides ridiculous arguements,i can't debate retarded rhetoric such as "they were liberated by the SU from the nazis".This is pure trash,the Baltics were forcefully anexed by the SU before WW2.

"They were part of Tsarist Russia"-yes,also by forcefull anexation,let's keep all the prisons of nations alive,shall we ?-The British Empire,The Austro-Hungarian Empire,etc...lol...stop posting crap after crap,you're not talking with your usual cheerleaders around here,i had my share of soviet propaganda during my life time,so did my country.I know and detest your garbage.

There's not ONE single comparison you've made in all our discussion that can be related to the point,just random off topics to divert the attention from my points.Standard soviet garbage from you.

 

[nangyale]

Come with decent arguements and we will discuss ,i can not discuss separate issues,the Baltics didn't start a war against Russia after a UN approved partition plan.You bring nothing to the discussion besides ridiculous arguements,i can't debate retarded rhetoric such as "they were liberated by the SU from the nazis".This is pure trash,the Baltics were forcefully anexed by the SU before WW2.

So if you don't have any argument you start to go personal. Answer my point and we will have a discussion. I gave you plenty of examples from baltics to Poland/Germany to Israel/Palestine. On one side you want to support indigenous rights and then when the shoe is on another foot you start to argue against it. Try and be consistent. Either you support native rights or you don't. Make up your mind.

"They were part of Tsarist Russia"-yes,also by forcefull anexation,let's keep all the prisons of nations alive,shall we ?-The British Empire,The Austro-Hungarian Empire,etc...lol...stop posting crap after crap,you're not talking with your usual cheerleaders around here,i had my share of soviet propaganda during my life time,so did my country.I know and detest your garbage.

There's not ONE single comparison you've made in all our discussion that can be related to the point,just random off topics to divert the attention from my points.Standard soviet garbage from you.

Nah man. I have been talking alot with brainwashed NATO cheerleaders like yourself.
you may have some personal vendetta against Russia and probably thats the reason you are blind to current events, but atleast try to take things objectively.
So far you haven't answered my points bar some rants about Baltics. Here I will try once again to answer your rants.
Yes some of the Baltics were celebrating on the streets when the SS came to town and then they went about setting up their own SS brigades to attack Soviet Russia and yes they might have suffered some what when the Soviets defeated the Nazis. But that doesn't mean they have a carte-blanche to do whatever to people who have been living there and became part of these new republics with the collapse of SU.
My point is if you think, it is right for them to persecute segments of their society coz they speak a different language and coz something happened at the end of WW2. Then all those people who were displaced or all those boundries that were changed at the end of WW2 should be changed as well.
Why one rule for baltics and another for Germans, and why for Germans but not for Palestinians?

 

[Arzamas 16]

Georgia join NATO ?

I think someone is forgetting that their are two Russian divisions inside Georgia.

 

[USAHawk785]

Yeah keep dreaming.Those russans will be treated as what they are:colonists brought in after 1945 while the native balts were kjilled and deported.They have no right to influence elections or to have sensitive positions within the state because as we see in Ukraine they are not citizens of their state but traitors.

Russia will deal with it as it did until now,it can't touch a NATO/EU member.But you can dream like every other russian nationalist out there.Until than,i will go by facts not wishfull thinking.

Lol, they can't do anything. We've sent a destroyer into the Black Sea right now and several subs that are part of the 6th fleet. Doing necessary exercises...

So if you don't have any argument you start to go personal. Answer my point and we will have a discussion. I gave you plenty of examples from baltics to Poland/Germany to Israel/Palestine. On one side you want to support indigenous rights and then when the shoe is on another foot you start to argue against it. Try and be consistent. Either you support native rights or you don't. Make up your mind.


Nah man. I have been talking alot with brainwashed NATO cheerleaders like yourself.
you may have some personal vendetta against Russia and probably thats the reason you are blind to current events, but atleast try to take things objectively.
So far you haven't answered my points bar some rants about Baltics. Here I will try once again to answer your rants.
Yes some of the Baltics were celebrating on the streets when the SS came to town and then they went about setting up their own SS brigades to attack Soviet Russia and yes they might have suffered some what when the Soviets defeated the Nazis. But that doesn't mean they have a carte-blanche to do whatever to people who have been living there and became part of these new republics with the collapse of SU.
My point is if you think, it is right for them to persecute segments of their society coz they speak a different language and coz something happened at the end of WW2. Then all those people who were displaced or all those boundries that were changed at the end of WW2 should be changed as well.
Why one rule for baltics and another for Germans, and why for Germans but not for Palestinians?

He's emphasizing the rights of citizens, which trumps that of resident aliens.

Georgia join NATO ?

I think someone is forgetting that their are two Russian divisions inside Georgia.

...and the 6th fleet's air wing can eviscerate them.

The EU has analysed and approved as legitimate the policies of the Baltic countries.If the russians don't like it they are free to go back to Russia,the place where they were brought after 1945 at the detriment of native balts who got killed and deported.

Russia tried to change the ethnic make up of those countries with deportations and imports of colonists.This is the result,this is on them not on the Baltics.After 1991 those russians should have been expelled but they were awarded clemency on that.

Let's see those "colonists" in the Baltics rise up.

Funny how former colonised people cheer the colonisation of others,your own sufferings haven't tought you nothing.That's a pitty.

Case in point , the crown jewel of the old Prussian empire, the city of Konigsburg. It had been reduced to a ghetto that is now Kaliningrad . My grandfather's family all come from Old Prussia, and Konigsburg. They ruined our old land when they slavicized old Prussia ...

 

[UKBengali]

...and the 6th fleet's air wing can eviscerate them.

Dude - S-400 will make mincemeat of the F-18s.

This is not Iraq or Afghanistan we are talking about but the 2nd strongest nation on Earth.