US plays 'genocide' card to pressure Turkey on NATO missile system

[Hasbara Buster]

Wow it seems you the outsider here that needs education. Ataturk was never islamic. He opposed everything the Sultan was.

First, we are not talking about "Sultans" or the Caliphate here. Do some research and look at what Ataturk said about a Turkic and Islamic union (yes, his own words). Kemalists of course never mention this, hence the majority of people don't know anything about this "shocking" reality.

 

[Cerian]

Btw, the guy who wrote the article that Jigs posted, must have watched too much Fox News in his life. I mean, its very similar how Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly treats Muslims, just for this case the guy who wrote it is a Turkish-American, and its about politics, not religion.

 

[Jigs]

First, we are not talking about "Sultans" or the Caliphate here. Do some research and look at what Ataturk said about a Turkic and Islamic union (yes, his own words). Kemalists of course never mention this, hence the majority of people don't know anything about this "shocking" reality.

Kemalists ? Oh you mean what Ataturk stands for ? Not what this embarrassment Erdogan is pushing. Put him in a box and ship him to a country that he deems "reformed and islamic" like Iran.

Sadly people are easily manipulated. Hand out some coal here and some washing machines there and use religion to gather up the rest.

 

[Jigs]

Btw, the guy who wrote the article that Jigs posted, must have watched too much Fox News in his life. I mean, its very similar how Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly treats Muslims, just for this case the guy who wrote it is a Turkish-American, and its about politics, not religion.

Glenn beck and Bill O'Reilly preach hate and fear. The person in that article is one of the few that understands what is going on. Give it some more time as the wiretaps and arrests go up and the media is shutdown you will understand what is going on too.

Turkey was ranked among the worst 40 countries in terms of press freedoms, according to a report released earlier this week by Reporters Without Borders (RSF). Turkey ranked 138th on a list of 178 countries in the RSF’s annual World Press Freedom Index issued on Wednesday. This is a further decline of 16 places down from last year’s 122nd ranking. Turkey stands between Singapore and Ethiopia. Northern Cyprus performed much better in the 61st position.

This is only the start.

 

[500]

You are talking about corrupt US elections, right? Do you know how things work over there?

I dont see corription in US elections.

They are not related. A union doesn't mean having no culture and language of your own. Ataturk himself said he wanted the Turkic and Islamic world to unite, meaning very close cooperation in all fields.

Ataturk took Arabic fonts which most of the Islamic world is using (22 Arab countries, Iran, Pakistan) and changed it to Latin fonts which most of the Western world is using. He did not change it to runic scrip or something. Ataturk pushed western clothing, forbid beards, separation of religion from state.

I guess only the western world has the right to create prosperity and become a powerful player through economic interdependence and cooperation. It's forbidden for Muslim countries.

What prosperity can you get from Iran and Syria? You need their resources thats all, that's what Western world does as well. But in order to advance your technologies you need cooperation with West, there is no other way.

 

[ARSENAL6]

SPill on ile 3

 

[Saithan]

Wow, I guess the tone in here has really gotten sharp. I suggest cooling down a bit.

First of all, what Ataturk did back then was the right thing to do. After the defeat he pushed and pulled the turkish people through the slum, and enforced all the changes. Some were more drastic than others, but they were all meant to force the T.C. into the new century. Which let's face it wasn't something you could do by maintaining an arabic language that made teaching and learning from the west difficult.

The kemalists nowadays are mere shadows of the great founding father, just look at Ergenekon to see the corruption. They are power hungry bastards who should all be hanged.

However my point is this, by turning turkey into a secular country he did the right thing, some might disagree, and they should because what works for one country doesn't necessarily work for others. Democracy is not perfect, don't forget that. however the changes Ataturk implemented were never meant to be permanent, when turkey has reached the modern level he had envisioned, then these laws would be enforced more loosely.

But Turkey is not what it was back in the past, we're modern now, and we have the right to choose by our votes what we want. I don't agree 100% in what the current government does, but overall they're doing good.

Jigs: That article really tried my patience, reading it was a hell of a lot harder than I imagined, mostly because I felt like ripping out the throat of the author. But then I remembered that he's living in the US, and has probably been spoonfed with US view on turkish politics.

An article like that who only criticizes tells me one thing: "If you know so much better mister prick-author, why the **** are you in the states, go back home and do something instead of criticizing."

Every ******* politician except Ecevit has interests outside of Turkey, Ecevit gave everything he had to Turkey. Beat that you self-proclaimed kemalist prick. Let me see you bleed for turkey instead of stabbing her in the back!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Saithan kardes,

between you and me, is this whole Ergenekon thing being taken a little bit too far (i mean, is it being exaggerated a little bit to scare the public?)

 

[Hasbara Buster]

I dont see corription in US elections.

So you don't know how Bush and his gang came to power in 2000? In fact, this was not the first time that elections were rigged in the U.S.

http://www.oilempire.us/elections.html

"Ataturk took Arabic fonts which most of the Islamic world is using (22 Arab countries, Iran, Pakistan) and changed it to Latin fonts which most of the Western world is using. He did not change it to runic scrip or something. Ataturk pushed western clothing, forbid beards, separation of religion from state."

Ataturk wanted a Turkic and Islamic union, he said that this was his dream and he believed that it would eventually happen. I understand that you don't share his views.

"What prosperity can you get from Iran and Syria? You need their resources thats all, that's what Western world does as well. But in order to advance your technologies you need cooperation with West, there is no other way."

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Increasing trade and close cooperation will lead to stability and prosperity in the entire region. This is common knowledge, that's why we have economic blocs/unions such as the EU. We must put an end to western hegemony in the region. This process has started and is irreversible, despite western plans and plots. Maybe Israel can join if they abide by international law and become a responsible member of the international community.

 

[Saithan]

Saithan kardes,

between you and me, is this whole Ergenekon thing being taken a little bit too far (i mean, is it being exaggerated a little bit to scare the public?)

Unfortunately it is difficult to say. But considering how turkey in the past wasn't transparent regarding governance the scope of the deep state could be worse. So far only domestic relations has been exposed, I can't imagine the consequences if foreign nations has had a finger in this as well.

 

[below_freezing]

Wow, I guess the tone in here has really gotten sharp. I suggest cooling down a bit.

First of all, what Ataturk did back then was the right thing to do. After the defeat he pushed and pulled the turkish people through the slum, and enforced all the changes. Some were more drastic than others, but they were all meant to force the T.C. into the new century. Which let's face it wasn't something you could do by maintaining an arabic language that made teaching and learning from the west difficult.

The kemalists nowadays are mere shadows of the great founding father, just look at Ergenekon to see the corruption. They are power hungry bastards who should all be hanged.

However my point is this, by turning turkey into a secular country he did the right thing, some might disagree, and they should because what works for one country doesn't necessarily work for others. Democracy is not perfect, don't forget that. however the changes Ataturk implemented were never meant to be permanent, when turkey has reached the modern level he had envisioned, then these laws would be enforced more loosely.

But Turkey is not what it was back in the past, we're modern now, and we have the right to choose by our votes what we want. I don't agree 100% in what the current government does, but overall they're doing good.

Jigs: That article really tried my patience, reading it was a hell of a lot harder than I imagined, mostly because I felt like ripping out the throat of the author. But then I remembered that he's living in the US, and has probably been spoonfed with US view on turkish politics.

An article like that who only criticizes tells me one thing: "If you know so much better mister prick-author, why the **** are you in the states, go back home and do something instead of criticizing."

Every ******* politician except Ecevit has interests outside of Turkey, Ecevit gave everything he had to Turkey. Beat that you self-proclaimed kemalist prick. Let me see you bleed for turkey instead of stabbing her in the back!

i just have to say this though: "language" does not make one modern, it's everything else that does. ataturk destroyed a part of turkish culture. i am not an expert, so take this as one person's opinions.

but do note:

Script in use in China: Chinese. Economy size: 2nd.
Script in use in Japan: Chinese and Japanese. Economy size: 3rd
Script in use in Nigeria: Western (English). Economy size: something like 50.

 

[500]

So you don't know how Bush and his gang came to power in 2000? In fact, this was not the first time that elections were rigged in the U.S.

Rigged Elections

Ooo conspiracy theory!

Ataturk wanted a Turkic and Islamic union, he said that this was his dream and he believed that it would eventually happen. I understand that you don't share his views.

You repeat this slogan again and again, but Ataturks actions show otherwise: he obviously wanted to make Turkey into a Western state. And he largely succeed. Here another fact, he gave his daughters westen education, they weared western clothes. One of his daughters was even a first combat pilot in the world, not hijab housewife like erdogans wife.

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Increasing trade and close cooperation will lead to stability and prosperity in the entire region. This is common knowledge, that's why we have economic blocs/unions such as the EU. We must put an end to western hegemony in the region. This process has started and is irreversible, despite western plans and plots.

As I said, its fine to trade with Iran and Arab countries: you take their oil and give them weapons, tools, cars, like all Western countries do. But if you want to develope technologies of your country you should cooperate with West. Thats only way.

Maybe Israel can join if they abide by international law and become a responsible member of the international community.

Israel Turkey trade is over 3 billion today, while Turky-Syria trade is only 2 billion. Thats despite that Turkey and Syria have huge common border and Syria's population is 3 times more than Israel's.

 

[Saithan]

i just have to say this though: "language" does not make one modern, it's everything else that does. ataturk destroyed a part of turkish culture. i am not an expert, so take this as one person's opinions.

but do note:

Script in use in China: Chinese. Economy size: 2nd.
Script in use in Japan: Chinese and Japanese. Economy size: 3rd
Script in use in Nigeria: Western (English). Economy size: something like 50.

My dear chinese friend, I don't believe I said it was because of the language, i applaud the achievement of China, but you have more than 1 billion people and a lot of your own troubles. uighurs, poverty level and such outside of the suburbs. I have been around mainland china in 2006 from Beijing to Kunming and then to Quanzou, by train and airplane. Beautiful country and I hope you can do even better.

However my point was that, The republics founding father had a plan of how to achive modernization, and he went with it. He forced the people to adapt to new things at the cost of abandonning the old. But that can never truly be done, because of our origin, roots.

If you want to see how ridiculus some kemalists has taken advantage of it, just try drawing something on the picture of the founding father, you'll be arrested for it. However do pay attention to that his image is on every coin and bill in Turkey, people crumble it, tear it apart and they can even draw on it without anything happening.

Some laws are taken too far in my opinion. If you ask me, our founding fathers legacy should be in our hearts and minds and not only put on coin and bills. His legacy lives through the succcess of every turk who draws breath and studies and works for a better Turkey.

I'd like to make my closure with:

"Türküm, Dogruyum, Caliskanim, Efendiyim"

Ilkem; kücüklerimi korumak, büyüklerimi saymak, yurdumu, milletimi ozumden cok sevmektir.

Ülküm; yükselmek, ileri gitmektir.

Ey Büyük Türkiye! Baska Buyuk yok.

Actigin yolda, gösterdigin hedefe durmadan yürüyecegime ant içerim.

Varligim Türk varligina armagan olsun.

Ne mutlu Türküm diyene!"

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Ooo conspiracy theory!

What a strange response, I don't know how to reply to this one? You seem rather naive and not particularly well-informed about American politics in general, I could recommend some good books.

You repeat this slogan again and again.

It's not a slogan, I can show you his speech about a Turkic and Islamic union (it's in Turkish so have to translate). He was definitely against backwardness (who isn't?), but he was certainly not against Islam or Muslim nations by any means. Not in the slightest. He also said that nations could not survive without religion.

For the sake of argument, let's suppose he was against Islam (in your dreams). In that case he simply would have been wrong. So what, what difference would that make? Ataturk is not God he's just a person, hence I would have simply stated my total disagreement with him, if he were truly anti-Islam, but he wasn't. I hope that's clear now because I'm not really interested in repeating myself over and over about the same issue.

As I said, its fine to trade with Iran and Arab countries: you take their oil and give them weapons, tools, cars, like all Western countries do. But if you want to develope technologies of your country you should cooperate with West. Thats only way.

Iran and Syria are also expanding their industries and their economies are growing fast. Syria is now implementing many economic and educational reforms with Turkey's help. There is lots of potential in the region in various fields, not only in the energy sector. Perhaps you are not aware of the dynamics in the region (because what we hear in the media about Iran and Syria is nothing but western and zionist propaganda).

Israel Turkey trade is over 3 billion today, while Turky-Syria trade is only 2 billion. Thats despite that Turkey and Syria have huge common border and Syria's population is 3 times more than Israel's.

Well, trade with Syria and other neighbours will be much more in the next 10-20 years. We are cooperating in many different fields and will continue to do so. It's not only about "oil and gas", as you seem to believe (for some strange reason).

 

[500]

What a strange response, I don't know how to reply to this one? You seem rather naive and not particularly well-informed about American politics in general, I could recommend some good books.

I'm well informed. I have family members in Florida.

It's not a slogan, I can show you his speech about a Turkic and Islamic union (it's in Turkish I have to translate). He was definitely against backwardness (who isn't?), but he was certainly not against Islam or Muslim nations by any means. Not in the slightest. He also said that nations could not survive without religion.

For the sake of argument, let's suppose he was against Islam (in your dreams). In that case he simply would have been wrong. So what? Ataturk is not God he's just a person, hence I would have simply stated my total disagreement with him, if he were truly anti-Islam, but he wasn't. I hope that's clear now because I'm not really interested in repeating myself over and over about the same issue.

As I said all his actions were for westernization and secularization of Turkey.

Iran and Syria are also expanding their industries and their economies are growing fast. Syria is now implementing many economic and educational reforms with Turkey's help. There is lots of potential in the region in various fields, not only in the energy sector. Perhaps you are not aware of the dynamics in the region (because all we hear in the media about Iran and Syria is nothing but western and zionist propaganda).

In matter of science, technologies, overall developement Turkey is much much more avdanced than Iran and Syria, but its lagging behind Europe and USA.