US okay with Beijing monitoring Indo-Pak ties

[inferno]

No third party mediation in India-Pak talks: China- Hindustan Times

 

[gpit]

...
but nevertheless point is : Is US ok with spread of communism as per Chinese mode..My answer is NO...and i feel you think it is Yes

Are you sane?

Is China spreading communism or capitalism? I think China is spreading capitalism, as it has been employed market economy more and more.

Provide you facts that China is now spreading communism. Or you better go home and study more.

We are a democracy and from the ground root i can assure you that much....

Are you sure?

Yours is more caste-cracy based ochlocracy with a touch of western democracy, resulting in a daemon-crazy where 2million children die yearly.

I can assure you that with facts.

...
a) I dont think China is humble the way you are projecting...
b) I dont think US is in mood to share SA with anyone...and if there is any country that US will look for then it would be India...but lets save this debate for later...let me reply to your comments relating to the discussion...

I think China is humbler than India with the following facts:
1) China resolves all its land dispute with all its neighbors except India.
2) India resolves no land dispute with any of its neighbors with various excuses.

You proclaimed earlier that India can’t resolve the land dispute with China because the dispute is more complex than that between Russia and China. Then why can’t your incredible India resolve some simpler land dispute with Nepal?

If the land dispute with Nepal is perhaps same degree of complex as with that of China, why don’t you resolve your dispute with Bangladesh?

Dude, if you have no sincerity, you can always find excuses.

I agree that US is in no mood to share SA with anyone except worthy one such as China.

In addition, regardless the mood of US, China is indispensable force in SA. For instance, it has a share of Kashmir land, right? It supports Pakistan in safeguarding Pakistan’s territorial integrity from potential India aggression, right?

Moreover, China borders with SA. Only the lunatic would deny China from SA affairs.

Does that make sense to you?

Our borders are very peaceful and our trade is worth 51 billion dollar and increasing...I don't see where are we bleeding...Please elaborate more on this...

Oh yeah? Now you’re telling me. Then what are those freaking medium reports? We all got the impression that a war was going to happen.

Border incursions strain China-India ties

The sinister truth behind China’s border incursion misadventure(Article) food cans, indian airspace, middle sector, reported violation, western sector

Chinese Aggression: Incursions on Indian Border | Nihar's World

China now incursion into India's Ladakh border :: Samay Live

Growing number of China incursions into India lead to a strategy change | csmonitor.com

China dismisses 'incursion' into Ladakh: Rediff.com India News

Article: After LAC incursions,Chinese now violate Intl border in Ladakh. - PTI - The Press Trust of India Ltd. | HighBeam Research - FREE trial

China-India Incursion Row Escalates | 2point6billion.com - Foreign Direct Investment in Asia

Free Article for Non-Members | STRATFOR

Chinese incursion at IIM-A too - Ahmedabad - City - The Times of India

China's Bhutan incursion alarms India

Now go and tell your fellow indians that the border is peaceful, all right?

the mood of people of AP they are very much indian as much as i am... its OK to be anti-india but why make such baseless allegations???

I’m never anti India. I’m always anti fools and liars.

…I guess this decision should be with people of AP and if i understand the mood of people of AP they are very much indian as much as i am... its OK to be anti-india but why make such baseless allegations???

Now please read the following to open your narrow, or otherwise brainwashed, mind.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/16289-crossovers-china-worry-arunachal.html

Seven Sisters

Extensive, complex patterns of violence continues in the seven states of northeastern India. The main insurgent groups in the northeast include two factions of the National Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN) in Nagaland; Meitei extremists in Manipur; and the all Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF) and the National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) in Tripura. The proclaimed object of many of these groups is to break out of the Indian union, creating new, independent nations.

Their stated grievances against the Indian Government range from charges of neglect and indifference to the endemic poverty of the region, to allegations of active discrimination against the tribal and non-tribal peoples of the region by the center. The oldest of these conflicts, involving the Nagas, started with India's independence in 1947. The insurgency was eventually quelled in the early 1980s through a mixture of repression and cooptation.

Only after Independence and re-organisation of the States was a semblance of real Government authority and administration brought into these far-flung areas. This was strongly resented by the newly educated elite of the tribal societies, who construed the efforts of the Government as an encroachment on their tribal way of life and freedom. Thus, on the basis of racial, cultural and religious differences from the majority stock of the plains, insurgency in the NE India came into being.

...

India No Stranger to Racism :: KanglaOnline ~ Your Gateway

By: David Buhril

As a person from the North East of India, bearing Mongoloid stature, feature and colour I cannot help but say that my personal experiences in Delhi, the capital city of India, have witnessed numerous slurs of racist fork. They were not soft ones. I am not alone to be subjected to such indignities.

...

Secondly may be for you leaving your homes or changing nationality is a matter of getting transportation cost but for me its a matter of grave importance...

See again how this is your trolling history: first you brought in Kashmir, next you raved about Bangladesh, now you are ranting about nationality.

Much as I love troll occasionally myself, I just want to remind you that only Native Indians are native to this land of N. America. All others are either born from an immigrated family or they are immigrants themselves. You should keep your graveness with you as that is worthless to many your Indian brothers/sisters who seek happiness elsewhere. Hopefully the following fact won’t aggravate your graveness more to cause your insomnia that Indians are the biggest immigrants behind Mexico: in 2008 alone there are 65971 patriotic Indians proudly swear to bear weapon to protect US before the Stars and Stripes against any enemy, including India if that happens. (table 21 from DHS | Yearbook of Immigration Statistics: 2008)

Thirdly so far you are suggesting me that only way of solving the border issue is give AP to China...

If you are not a flagrant liar lying in public just like what your democratic media do on daily basis, show to the public your proof that I suggested AP go to China.

 

[Awesome]

Lol, all hail the US which is okay with something totally insignificant. The Indians aren't going to agree to a Chinese arbitration as they've never agreed to an American arbitration. Monitoring? I think they transfer their subscription for Pakistani and Indian TV channels to China.

Arbitration of the Kashmir is issue is the only thing that is needed, where Pakistan and India sign off on a third party to decide on the case. We both present the facts and let a neutral party decide.

Bilateral negotiations too are hogwash. I'd say it out bluntly, India is a cheat on the Kashmir issue and will not give it up willingly. A third party with which India has strong ties with, and which is severely interested in dispensing justice to the Kashmiris can only decide.

The US is not that side, its insanely pro-Indian. But the problem Indians see is that their case is horribly weak in Kashmir. Ultimately the US population would side with whoever they see as the right side. No amount of media brainwashing can work on the Kashmir issue once all the cards are laid out straight. The American government if given the ticket to be the jury in the Kashmiri case would decide fairly and can punish India if it doesn't comply afterwards.

If the Americans couldn't get India to play ball, or couldn't get themselves to get India to play ball, how would China, an enemy of India, be any more suitable for arbitration? Monitor away!

Defence.pk's services are always welcome for everyone's monitoring needs.

 

[Nemesis]

It's not really a question of monitoring. No whims and fancies of an American president can force India on an issue, especially Kashmir. It's the idea that the US sees China as the dominant power in the region as the joint statement seems to imply. A huge slap in the face of all the pro US yuppies in India.

Lets hope the nauseating bonhomie between India and US is over. We can go back to being neutral.

 

[deckingraj]

Are you sane?

Is China spreading communism or capitalism? I think China is spreading capitalism, as it has been employed market economy more and more.

Provide you facts that China is now spreading communism. Or you better go home and study more.

Comon...Before suggesting me to go and study more first make up your mind what the heck is chinese model...If their model is communism then yes they are/will spread communism if allowed to increase the influence...Last time i heard there is still one party rule and they are still a communist regime...I don't consider China as a capatalist country and i know history as well as current affairs book don't as well... Having said it i agree finally China has and moving towards capatalism as they have seen and realized the fruits of privatization...Though even then at max they will a capatalist economy with Authoritarian regime...Still anti to American model of Democracy...

Are you sure?

Yours is more caste-cracy based ochlocracy with a touch of western democracy, resulting in a daemon-crazy where 2million children die yearly.

I can assure you that with facts.

No need to assure me with facts...Just don't twist the argument for your gleeful bubble... I am surprised that you suggest me to read books and then share such idiotic comments...Are you saying that our constitution says(model of democracy) that let these low caste children die??? Have you even heard the name of Mr. Ambedkar(A pivot in writing Indian constitution)...

Every country has issues and so does ours...Are we improving - YES...iS there scope of improvement [YES]

Now thanks for digressing from the topic. Let me remind you why i used democracy word..it was used in this phrase

Yes we want to be an economic super power....We are a democracy and from the ground root i can assure you that much....

This was in regard to your comment on SuperPower status...In a democracy(your version - Caste infested democracy) like ours matters are discussed in public and policies are made out of it...My comment was from that perspective..

I think China is humbler than India with the following facts:
1) China resolves all its land dispute with all its neighbors except India.
2) India resolves no land dispute with any of its neighbors with various excuses.

Again same rhetoric....

You proclaimed earlier that India can’t resolve the land dispute with China because the dispute is more complex than that between Russia and China. Then why can’t your incredible India resolve some simpler land dispute with Nepal?

If the land dispute with Nepal is perhaps same degree of complex as with that of China, why don’t you resolve your dispute with Bangladesh?

Exactly...You always forget to mention that China also used brute force to resolve her border issues...When was the last time you heard India used force to solve boundary issues??? We did not use force even for a 52 KM land dispute with country like Nepal....but again CHina is humble and India is fool...we should have used force against Nepal and Bangladesh to settle disputes and then as per Mr. Gpit logic we would have joined the famous club of humble countries like China...In fact i will go as far as saying that as per your logic if i use force against you and make you agree to my POV i will be considered HUMBLE... Do you see what kind of flawed logic is this???

Dude, if you have no sincerity, you can always find excuses.

May be you find them excuses...You are entitled to have your own opinion...

I agree that US is in no mood to share SA with anyone except worthy one such as China.

Only in your dreams...Atleast read some more on current affairs and India-US growing relations...There has to be some reasons apart from economics...

In addition, regardless the mood of US, China is indispensable force in SA. For instance, it has a share of Kashmir land, right? It supports Pakistan in safeguarding Pakistan’s territorial integrity from potential India aggression, right?

Moreover, China borders with SA. Only the lunatic would deny China from SA affairs.

Does that make sense to you?

Absolutely....No one can deny China influence where is the disagreement???...Hang on are you saying that i am denying it???...Here the point of argument is US assistance to India to counter China's rising influence..whereas you are saying US as an exit strategy would happily hand over to China... Now does that make sense??

Oh yeah? Now you’re telling me. Then what are those freaking medium reports? We all got the impression that a war was going to happen.

Now go and tell your fellow indians that the border is peaceful, all right?

I don't need to tell anyone...Also instead of suggesting me to study more every now and then i would like to return the favor here...

The Hindu : Front Page : India, China reaffirm need to keep border peaceful
Indo-China border peaceful, says Antony: Rediff.com India News
Krishna on China Incursion | Most Peaceful Boundries | India China Border | India Army - Oneindia News
'Indo-China border is one of the most peaceful and tranquil'

same media reporting in a different perspective about same issue...watch FOX news and then CNN for the same issue and you will get to know what i am talking about...Now you are foolish to believe reports in media which are not backed by official statements and think war was going to happen...No one can help you there....

I’m never anti India. I’m always anti fools and liars.

and that's what you should be...Good to know that...

Now please read the following to open your narrow, or otherwise brainwashed, mind.

I tried my best to keep the discussion calm but now you are taking it a bit too far(you would have felt that in some of my replies above)....Lot of people migrate illegally from Bangladesh for better prospects in India...Does that mean they want Bangladesh to be part of India??? If that is true than India-CHina-Pakistan all should be part of US and other western countries...

Open your own brain-washed mind and read this...

70 percent polling recorded in Arunachal Pradesh

Here are some experts for your benefit

"Voting has ended peacefully with premilinary reports that an estimated 70 percent polling was recorded," an election official said here.

"The final polling percentage could be a little higher as we are still compiling figures from remote areas," the official said.

70% people voted...Now you are saying they voted becuase they want to be merged with China???

I am ignoring your comment about other states and insurgency going on there...If you are not convinced about their affinity to India then let me know...

See again how this is your trolling history: first you brought in Kashmir, next you raved about Bangladesh, now you are ranting about nationality.

SO you saying that Dividing AP is a matter of giving transportation costs is very valuable comment and me saying its much more than that is ranting...Its pity even after explaining why i used Kashmir or Bangladesh you still choose to call it rant...Anyways up to you...

Much as I love troll occasionally myself, I just want to remind you that only Native Indians are native to this land of N. America. All others are either born from an immigrated family or they are immigrants themselves. You should keep your graveness with you as that is worthless to many your Indian brothers/sisters who seek happiness elsewhere. Hopefully the following fact won’t aggravate your graveness more to cause your insomnia that Indians are the biggest immigrants behind Mexico: in 2008 alone there are 65971 patriotic Indians proudly swear to bear weapon to protect US before the Stars and Stripes against any enemy, including India if that happens. (table 21 from DHS | Yearbook of Immigration Statistics: 2008)

hahahaha....So now you are saying that Indians are not patriots because they are the biggest immigrants behind Mexico...so 65971 patriotic Indians choosing US as their home thus represent 1 billion people in India and then you call me troll?? Let me tell you i consider US as my second home because she provided opportunities which helped me realizing lot of dreams... I love India and US and don't consider myself a traitor by any stretch of imagination...

If you are not a flagrant liar lying in public just like what your democratic media do on daily basis, show to the public your proof that I suggested AP go to China.

Thanks for calling me a flagrant liar....As far as proof goes you never explicitly said that...However this is what made me believe so...

India’s stance on territorial conflict is always “AP is integral part of India’s territory and is not negotiable.”If you don’t negotiate, tell me, how could you solve it in a peaceful way? A simple brain knows that

So you have two choices: take some loss and stop bleeding, or keep the conflict and stay bleeding.

Why giving part of settled area to China, or to India, would not safeguard the population’s interest. After all, there are some Tibetans going to India and some AP residents going to China, both illegally.

You are unable to comprehend what I meant about settled population. If a populated town has to be demarcated across the center of the town, it can still be done.

Even after saying that major irritator b/w India China is issue of AP because of settled population you keep on saying India is fool and China humble because we are shying away from talks and not ready to negotiate...I went in length to explain India's stand

attempt to look at it impartially you will see that India is willing to compromise on other areas of dispute but AP...To me its sounds like give and take...

You still continue your rhetoric...Now if the shared experts does not imply that in order to solve issue India's should give away AP or divide it than what else???

 

[oceanx]

Is China spreading communism or capitalism? I think China is spreading capitalism, as it has been employed market economy more and more.

Provide you facts that China is now spreading communism. Or you better go home and study more.

This sounds a little over the top. I surely agree that China is today "spreading" anything but Communism. What constitutes Capitalism these days is significantly subject to debate.

To the best of my ability to characterize - I would say that the PRC is presently, as "luck" would have it, practicing a softer, non-racialist version of National Socialism.

If you'd like - Fascism with "Chinese characteristics" ...

The above sure doesn't sound great. But I'm sure the Chinese are interested in alternatives as much as anyone ...

Yours is more caste-cracy based ochlocracy with a touch of western democracy, resulting in a daemon-crazy where 2million children die yearly.

I can assure you that with facts.

India to me is a highly imperfect, inefficient Plutocracy. It has never been as much of a "mobocracy" as PRC was during the Cultural Revolution. Despite the reputation for being a "castocracy", India will also furnish not a few examples of lower caste communities agitating to be classified even "lower" for affirmative action "largesse".

So it's more of a "complex, vote-bankish, communitarian castocracy" - heck I just call it a dubious democracy - nonetheless a democracy.

Whether it is an "inappropriate" democracy is a question only the Indians themselves can answer and have a right to settle on.

I agree that US is in no mood to share SA with anyone except worthy one such as China.

Beyond the pale - if I was an Indian, just for that statement alone, I would have said "keep the h*ll out". I'm not even sure if Pakistan would want China to "mediate".

In addition, regardless the mood of US, China is indispensable force in SA. For instance, it has a share of Kashmir land, right? It supports Pakistan in safeguarding Pakistan’s territorial integrity from potential India aggression, right?

No one disputes that - to some extent. And I am all for the PRC "backstopping" for Pak - from a distance.

It is exactly this kinda mentality about the PRC that ruffles my own feather. I mean, rumour has it that last year it wanted to "split" the Pacific with Uncle. And this year it wants to be a "mediator"/"arbitrator" between India and Pakistan.

I agree with the eminent Mr. Bhadrakumar here that there is no role for the PRC to play as a "mediator". PRC can be a helper - by keeping its mouth shut and doing work from an arm's length.

To mediate one has to at least appear to be neutral. PRC is far from it. And I am not saying that the PRC needs to be "neutral". But since it is not neutral, it sure the h#ll ain't going to officially "mediate" - with or without Uncle's "blessing".

PRC has a "stake" in peace in SA. You might even take it a step further in stating that the PRC is in fact party to peace and security in SA. But to say that the PRC is a "mediator" is to come across condescending and worse, "holier-than-thou".

It's galling to think that the PRC has even bald-facedly "volunteered" to "mediate". Heck, it hasn't even agreed to Uncle "mediating" between China and Taiwan.

It's even more preposterous for Chinese Yanks to cheer for it - I am not saying you are necessarily one of them cheerleaders. But are you?

 

[applesauce]

relax people the statement was just lip service the PRC wanted out of the USA it will continue doing what it has been

 

[gpit]

Still anti to American model of Democracy...

China wisely does not advocate American system in China, because wise Chinese have seen problems/failures in adopting the system in other coutries, such as perhaps India.

These days, I've never heard China asks US to change its system. Instead, what I heard is that eacy country is entitled to a system that it sees fit.

In addition, why can’t anybody anti America, just as America once anti’d British?

As long as it’s good for the people, I’d say “so be it”.

Chinese system has a lot of problems. Chinese people suffered/are suffering some traumas. Nonetheless, after development for roughly same period of time, contrast between India and China is so stark: I don’t hear the misery of 2,000,000 children die yearly in China; I don’t hear '75 pregnant women die every day in UP ' type of thing in China. I don’t hear 27% of world malnutrition in China.

No need to assure me with facts...

LOL. Typical incredible statement. Only incredible person will disregard fact and indulge in self-entertaining and self-comforting… Wish you happy, BTW.

Are you saying that our constitution says(model of democracy) that let these low caste children die??? Have you even heard the name of Mr. Ambedkar(A pivot in writing Indian constitution)...

Yes we want to be an economic super power....We are a democracy and from the ground root i can assure you that much....

You can write anything on paper, but it is hard to realize something. If I remember correctly, your education ministry had a plan in 1960s to achieve a literacy of something like 90% in 20 years. What a laughing stock!

Your PM proclaimed 5 year ago that Mumbai will catch Shanghai and will be talked by the world as a start. Tell us today, 5 years later, what is that?

You want this and that... who cares what you want. But the fact you achieve is that 40+% you children are malnutrition. Tell me how could a country produces massive stunt children a superpower? Sure, on your paper you can produce anything, but worthless.

I think China is humbler than India with the following facts:1) China resolves all its land dispute with all its neighbors except India.2) India resolves no land dispute with any of its neighbors with various excuses.
Again same rhetoric....

It’s not rhetoric. It is hard fact, to which you dare not face, you dont have the guts to face, but we earthling care facts very much.

When was the last time you heard India used force to solve boundary issues???

Here you are again.

BSF kill two on Bangladesh border - Snoop News from India - SmasHits.com

Allvoices.com - India's BSF kills Bangladeshi at Medinipur

IslamicAwakening.Com: Indian troops kill 3 in Bangladesh border shooting

INDIA: Border Security Forces kill unarmed man despite his pleas of innocence

Nepal-India Border Dispute: Nepalese Reactions Online :: Elites TV

“Some 2000 Nepalis from villages on Nepal-India border who have been displaced due to alleged harassment by Indian border security forces are running out of the meager food stuff they brought with them. [..]
The number of displaced due to harassment by India´s border security force — Sashastra Surakshya Bal (SSB) — is increasing. Even on Tuesday, some 250 came to Satbariya. Many are still on the highway not knowing where to go.”

Only in your dreams...Atleast read some more on current affairs and India-US growing relations...

whereas you are saying US as an exit strategy would happily hand over to China

American dream? Perhaps. US want to make money from India, too. You know how deep in financial trouble we are. Thanks to China, Japan, … who support us with money. If you want to be US friend, hand over yours.

China is becoming more and more a stakeholder. An influential and prosperous China is in the interest of US, as long as China is willing to share a common stake.

Where did I say US hand over Afghanistan to China?

Can’t you stop being incredible, and start being honest? Stopping being a liar again and again can only enhance your health, not shorten your life.

Again, only the lunatic would image Chinese influence in SA will cease to exist. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not.

same media reporting in a different perspective about same issue...

watch FOX news and then CNN…

Tell me, percentage wise in Indian media, which is overwelcoming, bellicose jingoism or rational reasonings?

FOX and CNN? Haven’t you screwed both of them yet? How pitiful!

70% people voted…

It's high time for you to screw your incredible democratic media. Now.

I am ignoring your comment about other states and insurgency…

The ignorant are happy to bury your head in sand to self-nuture their imaginary happiness. But those being discriminated will keep fighting for their rights.

So now you are saying that Indians are not patriots because they are the biggest immigrants behind Mexico….

Your twisted brain causes you to twist the facts again. 65971 Indians altogether ditch you cynical “graveness”: on one hand, you proclaim hypocritically your patriotism towards India, and pretend to feel “grave”, on the next second, you announce you love India and US the same. Thank you for entertaining us, I enjoyed a clown’s break-dancing very much!

Thanks for calling me a flagrant liar....As far as proof goes you never explicitly said that... However this is what made me believe so...

India’s stance on territorial conflict is always “AP is integral part of India’s territory and is not negotiable.”If you don’t negotiate, tell me, how could you solve it in a peaceful way? A simple brain knows that

So you have two choices: take some loss and stop bleeding, or keep the conflict and stay bleeding.

Why giving part of settled area to China, or to India, would not safeguard the population’s interest. After all, there are some Tibetans going to India and some AP residents going to China, both illegally.

You are unable to comprehend what I meant about settled population. If a populated town has to be demarcated across the center of the town, it can still be done.

From your quoting of my text, or anywhere else, where did I say anything about “AP go to China”? If not, then you are a standard liar.

Definition:

li·ar (l r)
n.
One that tells lies.

liar - a person who has lied or who lies repeatedly

liar - definition of liar by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

or your low self-esteem twisted other’s statements with your subjective defects.

Should you be still handicapped in comprehending what I proclaimed, let me repeat my own words India’s stance on territorial conflict is always “AP is integral part of India’s territory and is not negotiable.” If you don’t negotiate, tell me, how could you solve it in a peaceful way?

negotiate! Do you read me?

 

[deckingraj]

China wisely does not advocate American system in China, because wise Chinese have seen problems/failures in adopting the system in other coutries, such as perhaps India.

These days, I've never heard China asks US to change its system. Instead, what I heard is that eacy country is entitled to a system that it sees fit.

In addition, why can’t anybody anti America, just as America once anti’d British?

As long as it’s good for the people, I’d say “so be it”.

Do you have any idea of what you are talking about???? Seems like you don't even know how to debate ...The first and most important way of debating anything is stick to your point and argue over it... We are not talking about if China's system is good or bad ....here we are talking about if America is willing to let China increase her influence in South Asia.....Last time you went on to the length of saying China is spreading capatalism - this time you have pulled this off....Are you OK???

Let me repeat again -- No one is challenging about China's immense growth - her potential - her increasing influence...Put this in your head and then talk to me about US letting China grow her influence or not??

Chinese system has a lot of problems. Chinese people suffered/are suffering some traumas. Nonetheless, after development for roughly same period of time, contrast between India and China is so stark: I don’t hear the misery of 2,000,000 children die yearly in China; I don’t hear '75 pregnant women die every day in UP ' type of thing in China. I don’t hear 27% of world malnutrition in China.

Then you call me a liar... Don't make a fool of yourself by just writing any crap and posting it as a fact...we were at the verge of Bankruptcy in 1991 whereas Chinese reforms started in 1978...a whopping 13 years of difference...Go educate yourself....

http://www.apcss.org/Publications/Edited Volumes/RegionalFinal chapters/Chapter16Wadhva.pdf


As far as poverty is concerned we have reduced it from a staggering 37% in 1990's to 27%(by no mean a great achievement...however not something that can be ignored)....b/w what does US handing over SA(your version) has to do anything with poverty level in India vs China????

LOL. Typical incredible statement. Only incredible person will disregard fact and indulge in self-entertaining and self-comforting… Wish you happy, BTW.

I am not but definitely you are incredible...because only incredible person will be so willing to make a fool out of him so easily...Go read the post again and then try and gauge what i am saying...If you still can't then ask me i will explain along with Happy wishes that you are passing to me....

You can write anything on paper, but it is hard to realize something. If I remember correctly, your education ministry had a plan in 1960s to achieve a literacy of something like 90% in 20 years. What a laughing stock!

Your PM proclaimed 5 year ago that Mumbai will catch Shanghai and will be talked by the world as a start. Tell us today, 5 years later, what is that?

You want this and that... who cares what you want. But the fact you achieve is that 40+% you children are malnutrition. Tell me how could a country produces massive stunt children a superpower? Sure, on your paper you can produce anything, but worthless.

Yes we did not achieve that...So what's your point...Throw away that piece of paper??? That will help us achieve all the above that you mentioned??? Why don't you keep such genious thoughts to yourself and talk something related to topic....Malnutrition..poverty etc etc has nothing to do with democracy...its the corruption that don't let benefits to reach the poor...How difficult is to put such a simple thing in your head.......Let me explain again(seems like you need to be told again and again why we started debate on democracy)...We are a democracy and thus issues are discussed publically...Not like someone decide about my fate without even considering what i feel...I am little amazed even being in US you have no idea what a democracy is..if not why it is so hard for you to understand that India has no intention to be a military super power but yes we want to be an economic one.....

It’s not rhetoric. It is hard fact, to which you dare not face, you dont have the guts to face, but we earthling care facts very much.

Its hard fact only in you mind....Forget about my guts and stick to the discussion...Some of my questions are still not answered....

Here you are again.

BSF kill two on Bangladesh border - Snoop News from India - SmasHits.com

Allvoices.com - India's BSF kills Bangladeshi at Medinipur

IslamicAwakening.Com: Indian troops kill 3 in Bangladesh border shooting

INDIA: Border Security Forces kill unarmed man despite his pleas of innocence

Nepal-India Border Dispute: Nepalese Reactions Online :: Elites TV

I am loss at words to describe how hypocritical you are...The above mentioned is use of force to solve boundary issues??? Do you even know what BSF stands for??? Let me help Border Security Force...Have you totally lost it??? Do you even know the difference between border patrol vs use of force to change boundaries???

American dream? Perhaps. US want to make money from India, too. You know how deep in financial trouble we are. Thanks to China, Japan, … who support us with money. If you want to be US friend, hand over yours.

That explains you knowledge about current affairs...So my suggestion don't open your mouth in that regard...

China is becoming more and more a stakeholder. An influential and prosperous China is in the interest of US, as long as China is willing to share a common stake.

And what is that common stake??? A country that is going to reduce your influence is in interest of US...again you are full of genious thoughts...

Where did I say US hand over Afghanistan to China?

Are you suffering from Amnesia??? Read your posts..I cannot every time copy you own statements to tell you what did you say....

Can’t you stop being incredible, and start being honest? Stopping being a liar again and again can only enhance your health, not shorten your life.

Last time i showed you who is the liar...do you want me to do again??? Please save your face and stop making idiotic comments...

Again, only the lunatic would image Chinese influence in SA will cease to exist. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not.

Something that i myself said...That's the reason US sudden interest in India...If you can't stop the influence create a competitor to balance out...

Tell me, percentage wise in Indian media, which is overwelcoming, bellicose jingoism or rational reasonings?

Why don't you tell me..Since you are the smartest one here....

FOX and CNN? Haven’t you screwed both of them yet? How pitiful!

Coming from the mouth of someone who almost believed that China and India were going out for a war...Yes sounds pitiful to me....

It's high time for you to screw your incredible democratic media. Now.

and follow your incredible ideas..right??? If you cannot argue let me know...otherwise stop the crap and counter my points...

The ignorant are happy to bury your head in sand to self-nuture their imaginary happiness. But those being discriminated will keep fighting for their rights

And they should fight for their rights..however not by means of violence...No nation is perfect...neither is mine..

Your twisted brain causes you to twist the facts again. 65971 Indians altogether ditch you cynical “graveness”: on one hand, you proclaim hypocritically your patriotism towards India, and pretend to feel “grave”, on the next second, you announce you love India and US the same. Thank you for entertaining us, I enjoyed a clown’s break-dancing very much!

Don't show me your true face....I at least have a twisted brain but seems you have no brain at all...Care to explain what else you mean by talking about 65971 indians???? India is the country where i was born...US is the country where i realized my dreams...I love india as she is my country and respect US as she gave me opportunities...Now as per you i have to dump india to love US or vice-versa...so my suggestion keep the crap to yourself...

From your quoting of my text, or anywhere else, where did I say anything about “AP go to China”? If not, then you are a standard liar.

Do you read???

As far as proof goes you never explicitly said that... However this is what made me believe so...

Here's a definition for you...

idiot : a person of subnormal intelligence

Now let me reply to these

or your low self-esteem twisted other’s statements with your subjective defects.

Should you be still handicapped in comprehending what I proclaimed, let me repeat my own words India’s stance on territorial conflict is always “AP is integral part of India’s territory and is not negotiable.” If you don’t negotiate, tell me, how could you solve it in a peaceful way?

negotiate! Do you read me?

Again...do you read....or your low self-esteem is coming in the way???? Since post second i am trying to explain about non-negotiation on AP status does not mean end of discussion..as our boundary dispute is not just AP...India will compromise on other boundaries but AP...called GIVE and TAKE...Let me repeat Give and Take..here are few experts...

Yes...our stand is that AP is an integral part of India...Now does our border dispute only consist of AP?? We have a lot to resolve apart from AP and we have made our stand in respect to AP..India is not going to budge as far as AP is concerned and in response will make concessions in other places..

One of the principle that i highlighted was(let me do again)

In reaching a boundary settlement, the two sides shall safeguard due interests of their settled populations in the border areas.

you will see that India is willing to compromise on other areas of dispute but AP...To me its sounds like give and take...

Now keep on jumping China is humble ...India do not negotiate..but when encountered with reasons start playing liar liar even though i have explained what made me say that....

 

[toxic_pus]

China wisely does not advocate American system in China, because wise Chinese have seen problems/failures in adopting the system in other coutries, such as perhaps India.

American 'system' of democracy is very different from Indian 'system' of democracy. Indian democracy is based on European 'system' - to be precise the English 'system' - and not American 'system'.

 

[gpit]

Lots of trolls, so let’s thin it a little bit, as I’m happy finally you’ve forsaken your fake “grave”ness, in addition to others.

...Put this in your head and then talk to me about US letting China grow her influence or not??

The answer is a resounding YES. At least for this administration, it would like to go for “Strategic partnership”, or perhaps “mutual reassurance” (not in the following exerpts.)

I know you feel sour-grape. True, too, that your visiting PM is whining like an abandoned concubine, obviously unseemly in a state visit, complaining that US pay too much attention to China, not India.

II. Building and Deepening Bilateral Strategic Trust
…

The United States reiterated that it welcomes a strong, prosperous and successful China that plays a greater role in world affairs. The United States stated that it is committed to working with other countries in addressing the most difficult international problems they face. China welcomes the United States as an Asia-Pacific nation that contributes to peace, stability and prosperity in the region. The two sides reiterated that they are committed to building a positive, cooperative and comprehensive U.S.-China relationship for the 21st century, and will take concrete actions to steadily build a partnership to address common challenges.


IV. Regional and Global Challenges

The two sides noted that, at a time when the international environment is undergoing complex and profound changes, the United States and China share a responsibility to cooperatively address regional and global security challenges. The two sides stressed that they share broad common interests in the Asia-Pacific region and support the development and improvement of an open and inclusive regional cooperation framework that is beneficial to all.
…


The two sides welcomed all efforts conducive to peace, stability and development in South Asia.

...

U.S.-China Joint Statement | The White House

The “common interests” also lie in SA, which is, however, "BY-THE-WAY".

Then you call me a liar... Don't make a fool of yourself by just writing any crap and posting it as a fact...we were at the verge of Bankruptcy in 1991 whereas Chinese reforms started in 1978...a whopping 13 years of difference...Go educate yourself....

As I said, a person who nurtures insincerity can always find excuses, any excuses, be it border conflicts or domestic development. If you are sane, you shouldn’t forget that India got independence in 1947, while PR China was established in 1949. Thus, India has whopping two more years for development than China! In 50s, human development of India was better than PR China in GDP, illiteracy, … Now, from your incredible mouth, all of sudden, India has spent less time in development.

Can’t you please stop entertaining us with such low level performance?

Yes we did not achieve that...So what's your point...

Ask me for points? LOL!

Sounds you are very much proud of not able to achieving that! If a democracy is good on paper, bad on action, and is proud of being that, I’d screw that democracy. To me, democracy is not pomp. Democracy is for the people’s benefit, not for being looked like pageantry.

I’m not qualified to teach how you people should do. I’m pretty sure your guys are smart enough. What I sensed so far is that many, though not all, of your people are brainwashed by your interest groups to think that as long as you adopt western form of system, everything will be OK automatically. Of course, human nature tends to fall in love with such a happy-happy ga-ga-land. You do have some good thing on paper such as your judges will make their assets transparent. Better than nothing, such as in China. After all, execution is no less important. Do you know how many corrupted officials and/or CPC members are killed or otherwise imprisoned in China yearly?

called GIVE and TAKE...Let me repeat Give and Take..here are few experts...

All right, back to AP again.

Unfortunately you are not EXPERTS in GoI. Your give-take theory is not GoI official stance. Your GoI official stance is non-negotiable. Prove me wrong otherwise.

BTW, I like your give-take attitude and I’d like you to have a position in your government for border issues, so you can show your colleagues the definition of idiot.

liar

Did I say "AP go to China", or is that created by a Mr L?

 

[deckingraj]

Lots of trolls, so let’s thin it a little bit,

Yup make sense.. I will reciprocate in the same way. Not only that i will try to make the post sound more calm than taking cheap shots at you(though you provoked me) and hope you can reciprocate...

as I’m happy finally you’ve forsaken your fake “grave”ness, in addition to others.

@Ignoring. reasons above

The answer is a resounding YES. At least for this administration, it would like to go for “Strategic partnership”, or perhaps “mutual reassurance” (not in the following exerpts.)

If that is your personal view who am i to challenge it...You are entitled to have your own opinion...Like you i also have my opinion that a country who can potentially challenge your sole superpower status can't be your strategic partner... Honestly i would love to see if it happens because it do not undermine India in any way....Our objections and the whole thread was on China's potential role between India and Pakistan(which later both sides backtracked)

I know you feel sour-grape. True, too, that your visiting PM is whining like an abandoned concubine, obviously unseemly in a state visit, complaining that US pay too much attention to China, not India.

Can you please back it up with any links that our PM complain that US is paying more attention to China??? Please refrain from making things by your figment of imagination...Have you checked some of the news posts that i have posted??? US and china have already backtracked from the statement on Kashmir....so i am not sure what sour-grape are you talking about...

The “common interests” also lie in SA, which is, however, "BY-THE-WAY".

Thanks for sharing the useful experts...Now please pay attention to this one...

Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh and President Barack Obama today reaffirmed the global strategic partnership between India and the United States,

The two leaders resolved to harness these shared strengths and to expand the U.S.-India global partnership for the benefit of their countries, for peace, stability and prosperity in Asia, and for the betterment of the world. To this end, they committed to build upon the India-U.S. Strategic Dialogue announced in July 2009. President Obama stated that the United States looks forward to a stable and prosperous India playing an increasingly important role in world affairs.

TOWARDS MORE EFFECTIVE GLOBAL COOPERATION

Prime Minister Singh and President Obama recognized that the India-U.S. relationship is important for managing the challenges the world will face in the 21st century.

The Hindu : News / National : Joint Statement by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Obama


As i said no one can stop china influence, thus if you want to counter it ensure you have a competitor...Though honestly i want to see China and India both as friends with US and among themselves...This will help the masses...

As I said, a person who nurtures insincerity can always find excuses, any excuses, be it border conflicts or domestic development. If you are sane, you shouldn’t forget that India got independence in 1947, while PR China was established in 1949. Thus, India has whopping two more years for development than China! In 50s, human development of India was better than PR China in GDP, illiteracy, … Now, from your incredible mouth, all of sudden, India has spent less time in development.

Can’t you please stop entertaining us with such low level performance?

Again not getting provoked by your comments let me reply back like a sane person....I would again suggest to read post properly and then reply..Also if you don't find my post credible at least read the links that i share...We are talking about economic reforms not when the countries got independence(though china was always independent - something for which i respect her a lot)....Chinese economic reforms started in 1978 where as our started in 1991...before the reforms by these two Asian giants both were/are struggling from grave poverty, malnutrition etc etc....China has a lead of 13 years on India from that perspective. Mind it i am not taking anything away from China...Unfortunately our leaders opened their eyes under the brilliance of Mr. Manmohan Singh in 1991 only and followed the path of economic transitions...Here is an expert from the PDF i shared

India launched its market-oriented economic reforms in 1991. China launched similar reforms from 1978 and is now well ahead of India in integrating its national economy with the global economy. However, India is slowly but surely catching up in this race

http://www.apcss.org/Publications/Edited%20Volumes/RegionalFinal chapters/Chapter16Wadhva.pdf


Now what part do you disagree??? The way china was able to resolve her problems to a larger extent we would also(and we are)...It just a matter of time..Having said it we can argue on the pace at which reforms and their benefits are reaching to the poor...but nevertheless you can't simply outright reject India....China did because their leaders were able to gauge the benefits and change policy easily whereas our leaders needed a shock of bankruptcy to bring in change(why it happened is a different debate altogether)....thus resulting in a whopping 13 years of difference to catch up....Make sense???

All right, back to AP again.

Unfortunately you are not EXPERTS in GoI. Your give-take theory is not GoI official stance. Your GoI official stance is non-negotiable. Prove me wrong otherwise.

I don't need to because you are wrong...GOI stance of non-negotiation is only on AP. I have shared with you guidelines to solve boundary issue..Read them again...Do you see anywhere GOI is saying that change of boundary is non-negotiable...DO you really believe 13 rounds of border talks were needed for GOI to say...we will not negotiate...

BTW, I like your give-take attitude and I’d like you to have a position in your government for border issues, so you can show your colleagues the definition of idiot.

I have explained above...It is you who is not ready to agree that GOI is moving ahead in solving her boundary dispute due to you pre-conceived notion that GOI is run by fools(Now please don't ask for proof - this is again an interpretation of your comments)

Did I say "AP go to China", or is that created by a Mr L?

This time i have one more definition for you...

Interpret - make sense of; assign a meaning to; "What message do you see in this letter?"; "How do you interpret his behavior?" ...

Lets stop this childish song of "Liar Liar your pants on Fire"...I have repeatedly explained to you of what made me interpret that...May be you actually mean it and now back tracking may be i misunderstood...Now can we move on???

 

[gpit]

...
...Though honestly i want to see China and India both as friends with US and among themselves...This will help the masses...



Chinese economic reforms started in 1978 where as our started in 1991...before the reforms by these two Asian giants both were/are struggling from grave poverty, malnutrition etc etc....China has a lead of 13 years on India from that perspective. Mind it i am not taking anything away from China...Unfortunately our leaders opened their eyes under the brilliance of Mr. Manmohan Singh in 1991 only and followed the path of economic transitions...

....thus resulting in a whopping 13 years of difference to catch up....Make sense???

Make nonsense.

If your India system is so worthy, why didn’t your country open up before China? After all, you gained independence two years earlier than PR China.

This fact itself reveals that the “commie” China is far more innovative than ochlocratic India, far less adheres to ideological purity than India, therefore, is a more advanced system than your democracy.

Able persons find way to work things out; unable persons find pretext to excuse themselves.

I don't need to because you are wrong...GOI stance of non-negotiation is only on AP. ...

We all know the main border dispute between China and India, in addition to other smaller ones: in the east China claims AP; in the west India claims Aksai Chin.

Now look at India’s imperialistic stance: AP claimed by you is not negotiable, but Aksai Chin claimed by me must be negotiated.

And you call it honesty for Sino-India friendship? What a joke!

 

[oct605032048]

but this is not a joke.

what our hindu friends want from the hindu-chinni friendship is not the so called aksai chin but also tibet. Tibet, they believe, should 're-gain' the 'lost' indepence and then would better 'willingly' join the india confederation like sickim.

After all, they have the right to dream, but we do have the responsibility to look after the back yard right?

 

[gpit]

This sounds a little over the top. I surely agree that China is today "spreading" anything but Communism. What constitutes Capitalism these days is significantly subject to debate.

To the best of my ability to characterize - I would say that the PRC is presently, as "luck" would have it, practicing a softer, non-racialist version of National Socialism.

If you'd like - Fascism with "Chinese characteristics" ...

The above sure doesn't sound great. But I'm sure the Chinese are interested in alternatives as much as anyone ...


India to me is a highly imperfect, inefficient Plutocracy. It has never been as much of a "mobocracy" as PRC was during the Cultural Revolution. Despite the reputation for being a "castocracy", India will also furnish not a few examples of lower caste communities agitating to be classified even "lower" for affirmative action "largesse".

So it's more of a "complex, vote-bankish, communitarian castocracy" - heck I just call it a dubious democracy - nonetheless a democracy.

Whether it is an "inappropriate" democracy is a question only the Indians themselves can answer and have a right to settle on.

Let’s say any isms, as long as with Chinese characteristics, are no longer the isms defined by the west. So no fuss about that.

So is India’s “democracy”, be it called revolving-door or ochlocracy, 30% parliament members being criminal or criminal suspects is truly the single wonder of the world. It is their business, not ours, though. But stories like 2 million perished children, 40k vanished pregnant women, on yearly basis, etc… always touch a human’s conscience, except for the callous ones who are not worthy being titled human anymore.

CR is a semi-ochlocracy fanned up yet controlled by the charisma leader. Unlike the kind of practice in India, CR seems not perpetuable. Maybe the Chinese are more cohesively correlated than their counter-party over Himalayas. Thus stop-loss is perhaps easier. It is highly unlikely however that the Chinese or Chinese culture, even now, do not entertain mob elements, very much as evidenced the other day that you and your buddy called each other 江北佬 and the like.

The uncomfortable and gruesome fact is that several day’s destruction to human life in India today equals perhaps to that of a whole CR.

While I don’t think it’s mere “luck” for PRC, but if you insist, let’s cross the finger and wish the “luck” may last, as a stable and prosperous China is surely positive to the world.

Beyond the pale - if I was an Indian, just for that statement alone, I would have said "keep the h*ll out". I'm not even sure if Pakistan would want China to "mediate".




No one disputes that - to some extent. And I am all for the PRC "backstopping" for Pak - from a distance.

It is exactly this kinda mentality about the PRC that ruffles my own feather. I mean, rumour has it that last year it wanted to "split" the Pacific with Uncle. And this year it wants to be a "mediator"/"arbitrator" between India and Pakistan.

I agree with the eminent Mr. Bhadrakumar here that there is no role for the PRC to play as a "mediator". PRC can be a helper - by keeping its mouth shut and doing work from an arm's length.

To mediate one has to at least appear to be neutral. PRC is far from it. And I am not saying that the PRC needs to be "neutral". But since it is not neutral, it sure the h#ll ain't going to officially "mediate" - with or without Uncle's "blessing".

PRC has a "stake" in peace in SA. You might even take it a step further in stating that the PRC is in fact party to peace and security in SA. But to say that the PRC is a "mediator" is to come across condescending and worse, "holier-than-thou".

It's galling to think that the PRC has even bald-facedly "volunteered" to "mediate". Heck, it hasn't even agreed to Uncle "mediating" between China and Taiwan.

It's even more preposterous for Chinese Yanks to cheer for it - I am not saying you are necessarily one of them cheerleaders. But are you?

While not always with true aplomb, China’s influence in SA is nonetheless indelible, regardless whatever the hubbub India may emit. Without China, peace (kind of) in SA wouldn’t have persisted. Pretending or otherwise claiming to be a mediator is much better than being an actual one. More than just to gain psychological high ground, it can avoid bleeding true blood, as your much-taunted Uncle does/has done.

Further, nothing is holy in international relationship. So why don't you lay down your feather and peck away a few more Canadian prairie grains, which I tend to believe are quite nutritious and cholesterol free.

A mediator can’t be deemed neutral to all parties. While Mr. Roosevelt seemed quite neutral to midwife the Treaty of Porstmouth and even thereafter got Nobel Peace prize, still ignited were Hibiya riots. Moreover, per the Joint Statement, it is a monitor, not a mediator.

Your analogy between mainland/Taiwan of China and SA looks highly illogical, as the former is far more domestic than the latter. Nearly every country in the world recognizes that Taiwan is a part of China, on the other side, on one ever says Indo-Pak friction is non-international (Kashmir is more convoluted though). Don’t you feel so?

Galling wise, on the international arena, petulancy will be heeded by none. Nonetheless, that may sound irascible to a pseudo-Limey who seems to enjoy excessive commiseration with Bharat imperialism. Who knows, it might be that he was an Indian, or that they were both Queen’s subjects. Or might be not?


Happy Thanks-giving (of your Uncle's)!