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US misjudged appeal of Western democracy for Middle East during Arab Spring – CIA’s Brennan

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US misjudged appeal of Western democracy for Middle East during Arab Spring – CIA’s Brennan
Published time: 10 Jan, 2017 12:38

58747c14c46188207e8b45ad.jpg

A protester stands in front of a burning barricade during a demonstration in Cairo January 28, 2011. © Goran Tomasevic / Reuters
Arab world protests, Syria unrest
“I think there were very, very unrealistic expectations in Washington, including in some parts of the administration, that the Arab Spring was going to push out these authoritarian regimes and democracy is going to flourish because that's what people want,” Brennan said in an interview with CNN.

Earlier this year Brennan, who spent years stationed in the Middle East, already admitted that the Arab Spring uprisings that began in late 2010 created fertile ground for terrorists. But in his latest comments, he said the focus should not be solely on the “symptoms of the problems” like terrorism and violence, but rather on the underlying factors such as governance.

Read more

‘US-supported Arab Spring created power vacuum across Middle East’


Assessing the prospect of Western-style democracies taking root in Middle Eastern states, he concluded that what the people of this area actually want is freedom “for themselves, or their group, or their tribe,” while the “concept of democracy is something that really is not ingrained in a lot of the people and the cultures and the countries out there.”

The CIA head also discussed the ongoing crises in the Middle East, noting that some of the decisions Washington has made over the past two decades may have contributed to the current state of affairs.
For instance, he pointed at the 2003 invasion of Iraq as “the reason why there was the tremendous slide into violence and bloodshed in that part of the world,” adding that “history would have been different” if the US had not fully withdrawn from the country in 2011.
Echoing his previous comments, Brennan said he sees the move to leave Iraq as “a contributing factor” to the instability in the region and the rise of Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL).

“If we knew then what we know now in terms of what ISIL was able to do, in terms of just this explosive growth in Iraq that then was able to lop over into Syria, would we have pursued the same course? Probably not,” the official stated.

READ MORE: ISIS, sectarian conflict & chaos: Iraq 10 years after Saddam Hussein’s death

Brennan also said the Syrian civil war could have played out differently had the US provided more active help to the Syrian opposition when the crisis first unfolded – as US critics of the Obama administration suggest should have been done.

“If additional support was provided by various international actors to the […] Free Syrian Army, early on, might that have made a difference? Maybe. Because at that time, the Syrian regime was reeling and was more vulnerable,” the official noted.

Read more

‘Brennan’s crocodile tears over scorched Syria give hypocrisy a bad name'


Brennan warned, however, that providing military support to the Syrian opposition earlier would have presented its own challenges, with the opposition being an unstable, “very eclectic” mix of secular and extremist groups.

Supporting the opposition blindly and throwing weapons over the transom into Syria could have led to a worse outcome than today,” Brennan concluded.

The CIA chief recently slammed Russia’s anti-terrorism efforts in Syria as a “scorched-earth policy” far from “something that the United States would ever do.”

Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov last week said that the operation does indeed differ from the actions of the US coalition, which are focused on “methodically and steadily destroying Syrian economic infrastructure.”

President Vladimir Putin, in an interview with Russia’s NTV channel in December, said that the Arab Spring itself and the negative consequences for the region occurred because key nations “preferred not to observe” the norms of international law “to satisfy their geopolitical interests.”

Putin noted that the late Russian Prime Minister Evgeny Primakov warned about the possible harmful effects of the Arab Spring, but stated that at the time Russia “could not influence directly and practically the development of events, or our opportunities to influence those events were rather limited.”

The so-called Arab Spring was a revolutionary wave of both violent and non-violent demonstrations, protests, riots, coups and civil wars in the Arab world that began in December 2010 and spread throughout the countries of the Arab League and its neighbors. It led to the overthrow of the governments of Tunisia, Egypt, and Yemen, and caused civil wars in Libya and Syria, as well as mass disorder in Algeria, Iraq, Morocco, Oman, and other countries.
 
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It's okay. All of Middle East will be redrawn in the next few years anyway.
 
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Erm, pretty sure that reason CIA started the whole Arabic spring farce is due to the fact Egypt was trying to move away from USD and build an African economic union.
 
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Erm, pretty sure that reason CIA started the whole Arabic spring farce is due to the fact Egypt was trying to move away from USD and build an African economic union.

Egypt could not build anything at home...forget about them leading the african union..
 
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Erm, pretty sure that reason CIA started the whole Arabic spring farce is due to the fact Egypt was trying to move away from USD and build an African economic union.
Erm, pretty sure that your analysis is not based on any facts that you can substantiate or that your hypothesis about "Egypt's" motives has any semblance of reality.
 
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US misjudged appeal of Western democracy for Middle East during Arab Spring – CIA’s Brennan
Published time: 10 Jan, 2017 12:38

58747c14c46188207e8b45ad.jpg

A protester stands in front of a burning barricade during a demonstration in Cairo January 28, 2011. © Goran Tomasevic / Reuters
Arab world protests, Syria unrest
“I think there were very, very unrealistic expectations in Washington, including in some parts of the administration, that the Arab Spring was going to push out these authoritarian regimes and democracy is going to flourish because that's what people want,” Brennan said in an interview with CNN.

Earlier this year Brennan, who spent years stationed in the Middle East, already admitted that the Arab Spring uprisings that began in late 2010 created fertile ground for terrorists. But in his latest comments, he said the focus should not be solely on the “symptoms of the problems” like terrorism and violence, but rather on the underlying factors such as governance.

Read more

‘US-supported Arab Spring created power vacuum across Middle East’


Assessing the prospect of Western-style democracies taking root in Middle Eastern states, he concluded that what the people of this area actually want is freedom “for themselves, or their group, or their tribe,” while the “concept of democracy is something that really is not ingrained in a lot of the people and the cultures and the countries out there.”

The CIA head also discussed the ongoing crises in the Middle East, noting that some of the decisions Washington has made over the past two decades may have contributed to the current state of affairs.
For instance, he pointed at the 2003 invasion of Iraq as “the reason why there was the tremendous slide into violence and bloodshed in that part of the world,” adding that “history would have been different” if the US had not fully withdrawn from the country in 2011.
Echoing his previous comments, Brennan said he sees the move to leave Iraq as “a contributing factor” to the instability in the region and the rise of Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL).

“If we knew then what we know now in terms of what ISIL was able to do, in terms of just this explosive growth in Iraq that then was able to lop over into Syria, would we have pursued the same course? Probably not,” the official stated.

READ MORE: ISIS, sectarian conflict & chaos: Iraq 10 years after Saddam Hussein’s death

Brennan also said the Syrian civil war could have played out differently had the US provided more active help to the Syrian opposition when the crisis first unfolded – as US critics of the Obama administration suggest should have been done.

“If additional support was provided by various international actors to the […] Free Syrian Army, early on, might that have made a difference? Maybe. Because at that time, the Syrian regime was reeling and was more vulnerable,” the official noted.

Read more

‘Brennan’s crocodile tears over scorched Syria give hypocrisy a bad name'


Brennan warned, however, that providing military support to the Syrian opposition earlier would have presented its own challenges, with the opposition being an unstable, “very eclectic” mix of secular and extremist groups.

Supporting the opposition blindly and throwing weapons over the transom into Syria could have led to a worse outcome than today,” Brennan concluded.

The CIA chief recently slammed Russia’s anti-terrorism efforts in Syria as a “scorched-earth policy” far from “something that the United States would ever do.”

Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov last week said that the operation does indeed differ from the actions of the US coalition, which are focused on “methodically and steadily destroying Syrian economic infrastructure.”

President Vladimir Putin, in an interview with Russia’s NTV channel in December, said that the Arab Spring itself and the negative consequences for the region occurred because key nations “preferred not to observe” the norms of international law “to satisfy their geopolitical interests.”

Putin noted that the late Russian Prime Minister Evgeny Primakov warned about the possible harmful effects of the Arab Spring, but stated that at the time Russia “could not influence directly and practically the development of events, or our opportunities to influence those events were rather limited.”

The so-called Arab Spring was a revolutionary wave of both violent and non-violent demonstrations, protests, riots, coups and civil wars in the Arab world that began in December 2010 and spread throughout the countries of the Arab League and its neighbors. It led to the overthrow of the governments of Tunisia, Egypt, and Yemen, and caused civil wars in Libya and Syria, as well as mass disorder in Algeria, Iraq, Morocco, Oman, and other countries.

If u don't come to democracy, democracy will come to u
by Bombs
 
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The Americans have been misjudging a lot of things. The Middle East is just one of so many things and the change is everything except positive.
 
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If u don't come to democracy, democracy will come to u
by Bombs

The difference that these regional powers cannot understand, made all the mess and that is, imposing the one's democracy upon other. Like West cannot adopt the way of life, culture and customs from East then same applies to every country. These super powers needs to understand that the long roots of culture etc in these countries cannot be replaced just like flashing the data and installing the new system into it. The so-called self made geniuses thinks that whatever they have found is actually the right thing and the large number of resistance and all that opposition in the subjected region actually slaps back them as a wake up call saying that this is not your turf. However, to have the supremacy and upper hand, the said formula actually damaged the region as well as sabotaged everything and all that suffering which does not effect US at all because the ground is too far away from them and they have no concern with it. US actually thought it to be some kind of laboratory test but the thing is, results actually become a chain of reaction which cannot be stopped like this. While US and all the parties were playing such game, the people of the region are also responsible to some extent for all the mess.

However, once a corner of jungle is on fire then sooner or later, it will reach the other side as well not matter what even sometimes, the winds carries the spark enough to put it on fire.
 
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The difference that these regional powers cannot understand, made all the mess and that is, imposing the one's democracy upon other. Like West cannot adopt the way of life, culture and customs from East then same applies to every country. These super powers needs to understand that the long roots of culture etc in these countries cannot be replaced just like flashing the data and installing the new system into it. The so-called self made geniuses thinks that whatever they have found is actually the right thing and the large number of resistance and all that opposition in the subjected region actually slaps back them as a wake up call saying that this is not your turf. However, to have the supremacy and upper hand, the said formula actually damaged the region as well as sabotaged everything and all that suffering which does not effect US at all because the ground is too far away from them and they have no concern with it. US actually thought it to be some kind of laboratory test but the thing is, results actually become a chain of reaction which cannot be stopped like this. While US and all the parties were playing such game, the people of the region are also responsible to some extent for all the mess.

However, once a corner of jungle is on fire then sooner or later, it will reach the other side as well not matter what even sometimes, the winds carries the spark enough to put it on fire.

Exactly, you can't just transplant a system ("Liberal democracy") from a developed Western country... into a developing country. Look at what is happening in the Middle East, Sudan, etc. It's an unmitigated disaster.
 
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Exactly, you can't just transplant a system ("Liberal democracy") from a developed Western country... into a developing country. Look at what is happening in the Middle East, Sudan, etc. It's an unmitigated disaster.

If we dig further into deep for analysis, I see all this as occupying the Governments for imposition of their own order under the disguise of so-called democracy. The situation as you described well in short, is being mostly vouched by the US that itself suffering from internal corruption/weak democracy that we all witnessed during last election and even before. The election I quoted here is a single example otherwise, if media play an impartial role then we can read about the daily firing, killings, robberies, sexual assault and above the all intolerance against religions (every religion I count here that extremists are all over) and racism at large which is called freedom of Speech like other countries so then, US needs more a democracy than others at first but the matter is, who cover it well and keeps it under veil of so-called liberalism. Even, the freedom of speech is becoming another form of liberal extremism and widely used to insult, mock or provoke anyone around which is nothing but an excuse for such type of crime. The Middle East situation as you highlighted is prominent to evaluate results of unwanted method of democracy which was never needed in first place. The Irony is, in the end we use to say, "Sorry" like what Blair and his US Friend did in Iraq that almost put the region on fire and is still burning.

Hopefully, I am not provoking anyone here but such problems within societies are part & parcel for almost every government nowadays and all this cannot be justified as discrimination or deprivation from the rights or call an invasion. Indeed, there was nothing as "this/that democracy" but every country go through the different style of Governance as per the culture and customs.

Humanity is almost dead, mere creatures are living on earth without any sense.
 
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Exactly, you can't just transplant a system ("Liberal democracy") from a developed Western country... into a developing country. Look at what is happening in the Middle East, Sudan, etc. It's an unmitigated disaster.

And the liberal democracy regimes are dying in the West as well. Democracy and freedom alone are generally good, but too much freedom upheld by the liberals are ruining the West and making the societies rotten.

Liberal Democracy in the form we seeing today will disappear within maximum 2-3 decades, or there will be bloody revolutions or uprising.

The West, which were mostly primitive societies until colonizing adventures, got rich too quick by looting and robbing, is still not mature enough to understand about the trend of history in long run. Universal democracy in the West, in the modern form, started just after WW2 and they naively think it will last firever.
 
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Then what about Tunisia?

Tunisia today is a fully democracy. It's one of the freest and most democratic countries in the world.

If Brennan's analysis is true, then why did the Tunisian people happily embrace liberal/Western democracy in their country? How is it that Tunisia became a free country even by Western standards?

2016_Freedom_House_world_map.png


2000px-2015_Democracy_Index.svg.png


Other countries in the Arabic-speaking World, including Syria, Libya and Egypt, could have become just as free and as democratic as Tunisia.

The reason why liberal democracy failed in other Arabic-speaking countries is that so many regional powers, including Iran, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, began to meddle in the domestic affairs of Libya, Egypt and Syria, thereby making it almost impossible for democracy to flourish.

Syria used to be a liberal democracy in the 1950s, so who's to say it cannot become a liberal democracy again?

The people of Syria, Libya and many other countries were ready to embrace more liberties and Western democracy, but everything went down the shitter after various regional powers in the Middle East decided to intervene in their domestic affairs and turn their revolutions into proxy conflicts and de facto sectarian/ethnic wars. America should also be blamed for going along with these proxy conflicts instead of forcing all the regional powers to back off and allow the Arab masses to determine their own future by themselves.

Ever wonder why Tunisia became an Arab Spring success story while other countries didn't? It's because the Wahhabis, Khomeinists and neo-Ottomanists were so busy fighting one another in places like Syria, Egypt and Libya that they all forgot about what was unfolding in Tunisia. The Tunisians luckily found themselves in a situation where nobody was paying any attention to their local politics, therefore they quietly went about their business and built a successful democratic political system.
 
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It's okay. All of Middle East will be redrawn in the next few years anyway.

Well people cry all the time about how some oppressive regimes in the Middle East only have the ability to stay in power because the US is supporting them...that evil US. If a country decides to overthrow that oppressive regime it is STILL the US's fault that things didn't turn out all rosey. So as usual nobody should blame themselves...just keep pointing the finger at the US on how wonderful things used to be before the revolution.
 
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If the borders of the region get redrawn, then so be it.

As long as better (e.g. freer and more democratic) countries emerge, then I see nothing wrong with having the borders redrawn.
 
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What he's really saying is that the Arab Spring was just a test to see how susceptible the Middle East is to the Domino Effect. It was largely successful, as to whether or not it can be used against them ... TBD.
 
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