US links future of joint jet engine development project to manufacture fighter plan

[[Bregs]]

The US has linked the future of a joint jet engine development project to a proposal to manufacture American combat aircraft under the Make in India initiative, with Pentagon formally putting all options on the table, including sharing of high-end weapons, radar and power plant technology, during Defence MinisterManohar Parrikar’s recent visit.

Sources told ET that India will now be able to formally evaluate two proposals from US companies Boeing (F/A 18 Super Hornet) and Lockheed Martin (F16 Super Viper) to make jets in India with Pentagon giving a written assurance for transfer of technology.

A renewed push for the jet aircraft project came during the Parrikar visit, with an assurance that high-end jet engine technology that India seeks for its future combat aircraft programmes is also on the table.

In fact, officials told ET that US Secretary for Defence Ashton Carter may be visiting India as early as December to take the process forward. Sources who took part in the discussions said that while in April, when the two US companies had first offered the two jets for a Make in India plan, there was reluctance in Washington on how much technology could be shared.

However recent initiatives, including India’s entry into the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) and the signing of a military logistics support agreement, have changed things on the ground.

It is learnt that the offer from Boeing, which makes the F/A 18, is for the setting up of a new worldclass production facility in India that would cater to the production of futuristic combat aircraft. Lockheed Martin proposes to shift its F 16 fighter line from Texas to India as the sole production facility in the world.

As reported first by ET, in April rivals Boeing and Lockheed Martin jointly met top defence ministry officials in New Delhi offering to locally manufacture the fighter jets.

The offer came after Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar publicly stated that the ministry is interested in setting up production lines for ‘one or two’ fighters at the earliest, beyond the Rafale fighter jet deal with France.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...facture-fighter-plan/articleshow/54039799.cms

 

[[Bregs]]

There is always going to be heavy price to pay to get technology transfer from US for jet engine while dassault has already offered to upgrade and fine tune kaveri engine for Tejas for future upgrades

 

[SR-91]

The US has linked the future of a joint jet engine development project to a proposal to manufacture American combat aircraft under the Make in India initiative, with Pentagon formally putting all options on the table, including sharing of high-end weapons, radar and power plant technology, during Defence MinisterManohar Parrikar’s recent visit.

Sources told ET that India will now be able to formally evaluate two proposals from US companies Boeing (F/A 18 Super Hornet) and Lockheed Martin (F16 Super Viper) to make jets in India with Pentagon giving a written assurance for transfer of technology.

A renewed push for the jet aircraft project came during the Parrikar visit, with an assurance that high-end jet engine technology that India seeks for its future combat aircraft programmes is also on the table.

In fact, officials told ET that US Secretary for Defence Ashton Carter may be visiting India as early as December to take the process forward. Sources who took part in the discussions said that while in April, when the two US companies had first offered the two jets for a Make in India plan, there was reluctance in Washington on how much technology could be shared.

However recent initiatives, including India’s entry into the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) and the signing of a military logistics support agreement, have changed things on the ground.

It is learnt that the offer from Boeing, which makes the F/A 18, is for the setting up of a new worldclass production facility in India that would cater to the production of futuristic combat aircraft. Lockheed Martin proposes to shift its F 16 fighter line from Texas to India as the sole production facility in the world.

As reported first by ET, in April rivals Boeing and Lockheed Martin jointly met top defence ministry officials in New Delhi offering to locally manufacture the fighter jets.

The offer came after Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar publicly stated that the ministry is interested in setting up production lines for ‘one or two’ fighters at the earliest, beyond the Rafale fighter jet deal with France.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...facture-fighter-plan/articleshow/54039799.cms

US tech always comes with many strings attached.
Somebody please remind them French Scenma has offered 1 billion Euros for co-development of kaveri.

India also negotiating with the Russians for FGFA. Expecting to get many goodies with that deal also.

 

[Aero]

There is always going to be heavy price to pay to get technology transfer from US for jet engine while dassault has already offered to upgrade and fine tune kaveri engine for Tejas for future upgrades

If we get Jet engine and some stealth tech for AMCA in exchange for buying fighters under Make in India, It will not be a bad choice neither very good though as we will spend a lot of money on outgoing products.
On Dassault 's help .I don't think they (Safran) will give us all info, they will help in finetune Kaveri but if we can all in depth
info from US i think that is not a bad deal then.

US tech always comes with many strings attached.
Somebody please remind them French Scenma has offered 1 billion Euros for co-development of kaveri.

India also negotiating with the Russians for FGFA. Expecting to get many goodies with that deal also.

Are anyone of them will actually deliver what they say, i wonder?

 

[wiseone2]

There is always going to be heavy price to pay to get technology transfer from US for jet engine while dassault has already offered to upgrade and fine tune kaveri engine for Tejas for future upgrades

is there any proof dassault has offered this ?

 

[[Bregs]]

is there any proof dassault has offered this ?

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...rt-kaveri-engine-for-tejas/article8819728.ece

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...t-jet-engine-project/articleshow/53036894.cms

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I waited so that someone takes the bait and at least explain whats possible whats not.

As much as we believe things are possible via USA marketing and PR exercise in newspapers, one needs to critically ask them , why are you bluffing so much.

Let me collate few things here for reference

1.
My thots matches his .. well he explained superbly

2.

3. my opinions

https://defence.pk/threads/pentagon...make-in-india’-tag.447731/page-7#post-8662871

4. Lets ask USA.

Let me order 2 squadron of F16 .
So against that on offset can you complete Kaveri Engine with GE tech?
You know their answer already.. isnt it?

 

[somebozo]

Nothing out of this would materialize in reality because the US intent is to pull India away from Russian lap..! Once that is done the Americans will take a dump and exit.

The news does not make sense...the Americans link jet engine tech with manufacture of fighter which is clearly saying that..we will give you an engine for use in our own fighter only...so its a death kneel for Kaveri already...

And very soon..Indian inventory would be full with American strings attached hardware...which means..India can no longer take an offensive posture...this would be benefit external security of Pakistan...

 

[PARIKRAMA]

i went to Indiadefensenews to find the same news thread.

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/09/us-links-future-of-joint-jet-engine.html

Look at this comment. Courtesy to Jonathan Roa

 

[Grevion]

So the arm twisting has already started.
They knows that India needs the jet engine tech badly for our future combat systems and what's better then to force err.. ask us to buy the whole fighter aircraft along with the engines.

 

[[Bregs]]

So the arm twisting has already started.
They knows that we neee the jet engine tech badly for our future combat systems and what's better then to force err.. ask us politely to buy the whole fighter aircraft along with the engines.

arm twisting by offering same fighters rejected in mmrca some 7 yrs ago, if we had to settle for either of these 2 aircrafts then why did 2 govts wasted 4 and half yrs grappling with French for rafales. Many more absurd demands will come from US which wont come in media for obvious reasons. for our critical needs its best to avoid them

 

[Grevion]

arm twisting by offering same fighters rejected in mmrca some 7 yrs ago, if we had to settle for either of these 2 aircrafts then why did 2 govts wasted 4 and half yrs grappling with French for rafales. Many more absurd demands will come from US which wont come in media for obvious reasons. for our critical needs its best to avoid them

They are not the same, they are brand new, highly sophisticated block 70s.
If we pushes this deal a bit more then we will probably have blocks 170s offered to us(along with the engine tech offcourse).

 

[[Bregs]]

They are not the same, they are brand new, highly sophisticated block 70s.
If we pushes this deal a bit more then we will probably have blocks 170s offered to us(along with the engine tech offcourse).

try reading the comments of member at defence site given by parikarma, if engine tech is to be taken then whats harm in doing so with snecema with whom you are going to get 36 fighters for sure

 

[Aero]

@PARIKRAMA
I was very skeptic of this, i think we will not get anything useful in these deal.

US or even any country will not handover this type of Advanced tech to India. They just want to sell their 60s era fighters to India as No one else will buy them (Not including discounted purchases if any ).

• Handing over Jet engine tech to India means a losing lot of money on Jet engines itself as India needs a large fleet and is mainly depended on foreign Jet engines.
• If India gets a own Jet engine successfully it may create competition/problems for US itself as well as return on their own R&D will tend to be less.
• Even Russia and France traditionally close to India didn't provide any Advanced Knowhow for overcoming Metallurgical and design challenges.
• Failure of Kaveri (Yes we learned a lot) resulted in direct benefit to US in form of GE- F404.
• Chances of this tech coming from US is far very slim to France, that may give some help in completing our own projects but US

The only solution i see is keep trying as China is doing to develop own engine and encouraging forces to Try out local products so keep improving them and one day reaching International level of that tech.

 

[Grevion]

try reading the comments of member at defence site given by parikarma, if engine tech is to be taken then whats harm in doing so with snecema with whom you are going to get 36 fighters for sure

If only we'd like things that simple. Fighters from France and Russia, engines from the states, weapons from Israel and then one wonders why the fcuk we have such a high operating costs.
Hopefully the MOD will scrap the further plans of GE engines except for the mk1a and mk2 and focuses on snecema offer or better allocate enough funds for the continuous R&D on the kaveri's successor.