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US intelligence indicates Turkish F4 downed by AA guns in Syrian airspace

Barrack-Obummer

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Doubts Cast on Turkey's Story of Jet

Doubts Cast on Turkish Account of Jet Incident - WSJ.com

U.S. Intelligence, Contradicting Ankara, Indicates Aircraft Was Shot Down by Syria in Its Own Airspace, Officials Say

By JULIAN E. BARNES , ADAM ENTOUS and JOE PARKINSON

U.S. intelligence indicates that a Turkish warplane shot down by Syrian forces was most likely hit by shore-based antiaircraft guns while it was inside Syrian airspace, American officials said, a finding in tune with Syria's account and at odds with Turkey.

The Turkish government, which moved tanks to the Syrian border after the June 22 incident, says the debris fell in Syrian waters, but maintains its fighter was shot down without warning in international airspace. Ankara also has said the jet was hit too far from Syrian territory to have been engaged by an antiaircraft gun.

Damascus has said it shot down the plane with an antiaircraft battery with an effective range of about 1.5 miles.


"We see no indication that it was shot down by a surface-to-air missile" as Turkey says, said a senior defense official. Officials declined to specify the sources of their information. The senior U.S. defense official cautioned that much remains unknown about the incident.

A Turkish official said he wasn't aware of the American doubts, and reiterated the government's position that a Syrian missile downed the plane in international airspace.

The Turkish government has scheduled a special meeting for Saturday morning on Syria. A spokesman for the prime minister said the U.S. intelligence on the incident would likely be discussed.

The downing of the jet spurred fears of a widening regional conflict and led the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, following a presentation on Tuesday by Turkey, to condemn Syria's action.

The use of antiaircraft fire would suggest the Turkish plane was flying low to the ground, and slowly, U.S. officials said—though Syria said the jet was traveling at 480 miles an hour.

If hit by antiaircraft fire, the jet likely came closer to the Syrian shoreline than Turkey says, U.S. officials said.


The plane's pilots haven't been found, and the Turkish Navy has continued to search for them. U.S. officials say they believe the pilots perished.

Some current and former American officials believe Ankara has been testing Syrian defenses. The version of the Turkish F-4 Phantom that was shot down typically carries surveillance equipment, according to U.S. defense officials.

A former senior U.S. official who worked closely with Turkey said he believed the flight's course was meant to test Syria's response. "You think that the airplane was there by mistake?" the former official said.

"These countries are all testing how fast they get picked up and how fast someone responds," said a senior U.S. official. "It's part of training."

The Turkish official said the plane wasn't on a surveillance mission. "All NATO members have condemned the Syrian hostile act and have supported Turkey," the official said.

The emerging discrepancies could prove embarrassing to Ankara and strain continuing discussions between the U.S. and Turkey, a NATO ally that shares a long border with Syria.

Turkey occupies a critical role in the U.S. and Western strategy for dealing with the Syrian crisis. American officials and defense analysts say the U.S. approach depends largely on Turkey's willingness to keep pressure on Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

NATO officials said Turkey's presentation on the incident on Tuesday was very detailed, but diplomats didn't closely question the Turks on their version of events. The U.S. backed Turkey and, American officials said, pushed NATO to issue a statement sharply condemning Syria.

The incident has put NATO in a tough spot. Alliance members are eager to back Ankara, but don't want to be dragged into a military conflict in Syria.

If the plane had been struck by a missile, a senior military official said, it would be an indication that Damascus had authorized the action. But the use of antiaircraft fire may mean a local commander decided on his own initiative to fire at the Turkish plane, according to officials and analysts.

U.S. defense officials said they weren't alarmed by Turkey's movement of forces to its border with Syria. Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, praised Turkey's "very measured" approach. "I've asked them, and they are not seeking to be provocative," Gen. Dempsey said.

The U.S.-Turkish relationship is unlikely to be affected by the apparent discrepancies in accounts of the downing of the jet. Cooperation between Ankara and Washington has grown closer in recent months, after a period of significant strain in 2009 and 2010.

That marks a turnaround for Turkey, which 18 months ago moved to cultivate relations and trade with neighboring Muslim regimes, including Mr. Assad's, while downgrading ties with former ally Israel, raising concerns in Washington.

The revolutions of the Arab Spring, however, upended that policy. In a major change, Turkey agreed last fall to house a NATO missile-defense system, which was designed by the U.S. to contain Iran.

Turkish analysts said the debate in Turkey is now focused on the escalating tensions along the country's 565-mile border with Syria.

"What's important for most Turks is that the government has been seen to respond by boosting troop capacity on the border, which will further pressure Assad," said Atilla Yesilada, a partner at Istanbul-based political risk consultancy Istanbul Analytics.
 
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Most probably shot down by the US with an Iranian weapon as a false flag to make Turkey show it's aggression against Assad and Najjad.
 
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This doesn't make sense. Why "US officials" would make such a statement while Nautilus is on its way to find the wreckage which will reveal the whole story at any moment...
 
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Good job, now all you have to do is post it on facebook and twitter and your media will pick up the great story. :)

It is coming straight from Wall Street Journal - the mouthpiece of US intelligence, and unsurprisingly an Indian is coming for the rescue. It is not best that we should all think alike; it is a difference of opinion that makes horse races.
 
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This doesn't make sense. Why "US officials" would make such a statement while Nautilus is on its way to find the wreckage which will reveal the whole story at any moment...

Yeah, take it with a grain of salt. Ill try to update on it when developments happen. The article also states much has yet to be confirmed with this incident.
 
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Doubts Cast on Turkey's Story of Jet

Doubts Cast on Turkish Account of Jet Incident - WSJ.com

U.S. Intelligence, Contradicting Ankara, Indicates Aircraft Was Shot Down by Syria in Its Own Airspace, Officials Say
I guess the Turkish assumptions are wrong that their aircraft was shot down within Turkish airspace...The US claims looks more accurate and credible....Turkey shold refrain from any conflict with syria......its gonna have disastrous outcome for both the countries........:coffee:
 
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^^Syria has already accepted the misdoing!

Shooting a plane is an act of war, this is why Pakistan always refrain for shooting Indian planes in Pakistani airspace.
 
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^^Syria has already accepted the misdoing!

Shooting a plane is an act of war, this is why Pakistan always refrain for shooting Indian planes in Pakistani airspace.
No syria did not accept any misdoing.
Also the relation between them is not 'normal' now, India did shoot down a pakistani plane during our 'below normal' phase of relationship ( I guess pakistan downed one during kargil too)
 
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This doesn't make sense. Why "US officials" would make such a statement while Nautilus is on its way to find the wreckage which will reveal the whole story at any moment...

read closely, it is a former US official.
 
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one thing simple and easy to understand as every place i saw i mean article it said it was low flying and visible
there part also it was shot down by a anti aircraft gun so any way

it means it was inside the airspace of Syria when it was shoot down
 
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lmao
where are all the trolls in the other threads???

How many of us tried to explain that the plane wasn't shot with missiles? The Syrians immidiately claimed that it was shot with an Iranian system, either Mesbah-1 or saeer, but all the trolls tried to argue otherwise.

^^Syria has already accepted the misdoing!

Shooting a plane is an act of war, this is why Pakistan always refrain for shooting Indian planes in Pakistani airspace.
why do you pakistanis always try to stick up to the country you have a soft spot for? Argue facts for once. You lived in Turkey and like Turks. It doesn't change reality though.

1) Syrian officials claimed it was with an Iranian system. So whether it was mesbah or saeer, it means that IT WAS inside syrian borders.

2) Americans say it was in Syrian borders.

3) Amateur video shows it was in Syrian borders.

Syria did NOTHING wrong. They're in a state of war and a NATO plane intruded into their airspace.

All these fart noises from people who say Syria was at wrong here are just that, fart noises. Give it a rest people.
 
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How exactly what Syrian officials says automatically means truth ? did they showed any proof ?

Before criticizing Pakistanis, better look at yourself, all Iranians support Assad because of its relations to Iran via Alawi sect.
 
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How exactly what Syrian officials says automatically means truth ? did they showed any proof ?

Before criticizing Pakistanis, better look at yourself, all Iranians support Assad because of its relations to Iran via Alawi sect.
nah, half of us here aren't even muslims and the other half don't know wtf alawi is.

We support Assad b/c he's our ally and we also don't want Al Quida to take over Syria. For ****'s sake, you turks will be the first people to suffer the consequences if he's taken out. Syria also was one of the ONLY Arab countries that didn't participate in the invasion of Iran by Saddam/Saudi Arabi and the rest of the PGCC back in the eighties. We're just returning the favour and the cause is also just.

If you cared about the people, you would have criticized the terrorist thugs, the rebels and those who are arming them. The people are stuck between thugs with guns and the govt of Syria. So it's you who has the secterian mindset.



Re. the official's claims: it does mean it's the truth b/c they have nothing to gain by saying it was an Iranian system that was used. Actually it would bring unnecessary attention to Iran so it's not smtg the Iranian regime wanted in the first place. Why would they lie? If it was an Iranian system than it would mean that the plane was in fact in Syrian airspace.
 
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why do you pakistanis always try to stick up to the country you have a soft spot for? Argue facts for once. You lived in Turkey and like Turks. It doesn't change reality though.

1) Syrian officials claimed it was with an Iranian system. So whether it was mesbah or saeer, it means that IT WAS inside syrian borders.

2) Americans say it was in Syrian borders.

3) Amateur video shows it was in Syrian borders.

Syria did NOTHING wrong. They're in a state of war and a NATO plane intruded into their airspace.

All these fart noises from people who say Syria was at wrong here are just that, fart noises. Give it a rest people.

1) Syria also claimed they thought it was an Israeli jet and they didn't know whose plane that was. Many of their lies already exposed.

2) Americans also saying, Iran is going to have nuclear weapons and must be taken care of. Why are you believing just a speculation now?

3) There is nothing in that video other than bunch of retards dancing on the beach.

We will see soon whose fault this was when the wreckage recovered. And please don't talk about "soft spots". After all you guys are the one who is supporting a psychopath for your own interests.
 
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