US helping Pakistan become stable, prosperous, democratic nation: Brian Heath

[Amaa'n]

84pc of Pakistani Muslims want Sharia, says PEW survey - thenews.com.pk

The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

- burn them all

The crux of the issue lies in that. The conflict in most of the Muslim World comes from democracy not being enough Islamic and the desire to be more closer to Islam rather than democracy. Pillars of democracy is freedom to practice, freedom of expression, freedom to preach, equal status and rule of law for all - all these come in conflict with Islamic rule. Hence the twist. The US and others would do well to know what the Muslims want in wherever they manage to become a sizeable majority because it'd in direct conflict with the goveenance we follow, is not the governance preached to them.

if it is the Jihadi version of Islam you are talking about then i agree with you - otherwise Islam has to offer all that democracy offers

 

[Kloitra]

if it is the Jihadi version of Islam you are talking about then i agree with you - otherwise Islam has to offer all that democracy offers

How can any government based on any religion offer equality and freedom to all? If the rules are based on one religion, they would somewhere conflict or be unequal wrt other religions.

 

[acid rain]

- burn them all


if it is the Jihadi version of Islam you are talking about then i agree with you - otherwise Islam has to offer all that democracy offers

Please give me an example of one Muslim state that follows shariah and which offers all that which democracy offers.








This is the conflict in the Muslim World that I am talking about. You cannot be shariah driven and be a democracy as well.

 

[Amaa'n]

How can any government based on any religion offer equality and freedom to all? If the rules are based on one religion, they would somewhere conflict or be unequal wrt other religions.

Give me an example where this hasn't been the case- If you exclude the non state actors - and the militant sectarian organizations that Govt has provided everyone with the right to practice their religion be it a Hindu, Sikh or a Christian -

Please give me an example of one Muslim state that follows shariah and which offers all that which democracy offers.

This is the conflict in the Muslim World that I am talking about. You cannot be shariah driven and be a democracy as well.

I am here to talk about Islam - that is What should be Practiced - not the version that is Being practiced - be it KSA or Syria ---
So i agree with you - But saying that Islam in its actual form doesn't offer that is wrong ---
In Quran it is said that there are hints for those who believe and those who think ---
so a human being with a conscious mind will eventually look around - think about things around him - Question them ---
and those who think cannot be suppressed by force --- that is Freedom of expression for you -

 

[acid rain]

Give me an example where this hasn't been the case- If you exclude the non state actors - and the militant sectarian organizations that Govt has provided everyone with the right to practice their religion be it a Hindu, Sikh or a Christian -


I am here to talk about Islam - that is What should be Practiced - not the version that is Being practiced - be it KSA or Syria ---
So i agree with you - But saying that Islam in its actual form doesn't offer that is wrong ---
In Quran it is said that there are hints for those who believe and those who think ---
so a human being with a conscious mind will eventually look around - think about things around him - Question them ---
and those who think cannot be suppressed by force --- that is Freedom of expression for you -

Saudi Arab, Brunei, Afghanistan under Taliban, Somalia, Islamic State.....to name a few.

Now go ahead and name one shariah state which you think is ideal.


You don't get the contradictions. ...see, according to shariah preachers tgere's just one form of Islam that is true. .The form that is against all values of democracy. They are against whatever permutations that you are talking about.

Also, why do you think the shariah honchos are demanding shariah rules in essentially democratic western countries. ..and why is it a bad idea?

 

[Amaa'n]

Saudi Arab, Brunei, Afghanistan under Taliban, Somalia, Islamic State.....to name a few.

Now go ahead and name one shariah state which you think is ideal.


You don't get the contradictions. ...see, according to shariah preachers tgere's just one form of Islam that is true. .The form that is against all values of democracy. They are against whatever permutations that you are talking about.

Also, why do you think the shariah honchos are demanding shariah rules in essentially democratic western countries. ..and why is it a bad idea?

I think we need to draw a line here - my point is Non of the states mentioned above are practicing Islam and sharia in its true form and hence they are facing the rebilion - and the irony is those who are standing against them are the stray ones ----

i am here to distinguish between what is Being practiced by us and what Should be practiced --

 

[Kompromat]

Khuda kay lie hamain hamary haal py chor do.

 

[VCheng]

I think we need to draw a line here - my point is Non of the states mentioned above are practicing Islam and sharia in its true form and hence they are facing the rebilion - and the irony is those who are standing against them are the stray ones ----

i am here to distinguish between what is Being practiced by us and what Should be practiced --

But Islam is what is followers actually DO, and not what they CLAIM. What is this "should be practiced" except a hollow claim of lofty ideals never realized in practice?

Khuda kay lie hamain hamary haal py chor do.

As long as Pakistan does not export its problems, USA is all okay with leaving Pakistan alone, I am sure.

 

[acid rain]

I think we need to draw a line here - my point is Non of the states mentioned above are practicing Islam and sharia in its true form and hence they are facing the rebilion - and the irony is those who are standing against them are the stray ones ----

i am here to distinguish between what is Being practiced by us and what Should be practiced --

There are numerous states that practice shariah...its an irony that you cannot name one of them that you think is ideal....so what does that tell you?

It tells you that though the majority of the Muslims of the world desire to be ruled under shariah....The concept of pushing democracy on them is a clear conflict.

RELIGIOUS RULE MEANT FOR JUST ONE FACTION OF ONE RELIGION IS NOT DEMOCRACY....at least be clear on that.

Now how does that tie in with the topic of the thead? ...especially for a country which was conceived on the basis that Muslims cannot live with another religious group?.

It ties in the way that the US is pushing democracy on a country where 84% of its people want Islamic rule...which is the cause of conflict.

Do you see a Co relation between the 84% who desire shariah caliphate with the 80% or do pakistanis that hate the US?.....I do...in an indirect way.

 

[Amaa'n]

But Islam is what is followers actually DO, and not what they CLAIM. What is this "should be practiced" except a hollow claim of lofty ideals never realized in practice?

So if someone is on the wrong - somehow it is OK?? because Islam is what one follows?

As long as Pakistan does not export its problems, USA is all okay with leaving Pakistan alone, I am sure.

i think it all started with US itself- had they not ran to Pakistan to avenge what was done to them in Vietnam - we wouldnt be seeing this ----

There are numerous states that practice shariah...its an irony that you cannot name one of them that you think is ideal....so what does that tell you?

It tells you that though the majority of the Muslims of the world desire to be ruled under shariah....The concept of pushing democracy on them is a clear conflict.

RELIGIOUS RULE MEANT FOR JUST ONE FACTION OF ONE RELIGION IS NOT DEMOCRACY....at least be clear on that.

Now how does that tie in with the topic of the thead? ...especially for a country which was conceived on the basis that Muslims cannot live with another religious group?.

It ties in the way that the US is pushing democracy on a country where 84% of its people want Islamic rule...which is the cause of conflict.

Do you see a Co relation between the 84% who desire shariah caliphate with the 80% or do pakistanis that hate the US?.....I do...in an indirect way.

now you are just trolling mate, bringing in three different things -
- basis of creation of Pakistan
- Pakistan disapproving of US
- Religious rule meant for just one faction --
I suggest cut the crap and stick with the topic --
Yes, We want Sharia - happy?

 

[VCheng]

So if someone is on the wrong - somehow it is OK?? because Islam is what one follows?


i think it all started with US itself- had they not ran to Pakistan to avenge what was done to them in Vietnam - we wouldnt be seeing this ----

The discussion on Islam and what it is vs what is claimed is already going one here:

The betrayal of my beautiful religion, Islam

So you think USA ran to Pakistan to avenge Vietnam? Please do explain this fascinating statement a little bit further for my benefit. Thanks.

 

[Amaa'n]

So you think USA ran to Pakistan to avenge Vietnam? Please do explain this fascinating statement a little bit further for my benefit. Thanks.

USSR support for Vietnamese rebels? ring any bells? please dont make me open up the history books

 

[VCheng]

USSR support for Vietnamese rebels? ring any bells? please dont make me open up the history books

The history is known, but pleases explain how we get from Vietnam to Pakistan today via USA. Thanks.

 

[acid rain]

So if someone is on the wrong - somehow it is OK?? because Islam is what one follows?


i think it all started with US itself- had they not ran to Pakistan to avenge what was done to them in Vietnam - we wouldnt be seeing this ----


now you are just trolling mate, bringing in three different things -
- basis of creation of Pakistan
- Pakistan disapproving of US
- Religious rule meant for just one faction --
I suggest cut the crap and stick with the topic --
Yes, We want Sharia - happy?

Lol, losing the arguments I see....anyways, next time.

 

[Amaa'n]

So you think USA ran to Pakistan to avenge Vietnam? Please do explain this fascinating statement a little bit further for my benefit. Thanks.

here is a quote from a history book - let me know if you need more:

"the increasing American involvement in Vietnam put an additional strain
on Russo-American relations. The American attempt to buttress an independent and
non-communist South Vietnamese state entailed war against the Vietcong, which
ranked in communist terminology as a national liberation movement, and war against
the communist state of North Vietnam, and something like war against the vastly more
important communist state of China. For the Russians to fail to support President Ho
Chi Minh of North Vietnam would be a betrayal of communist solidarity, dangerous
at any time to Russian standing in the communist world and doubly dangerous at a
time when Russian pre-eminence and doctrinal purity were being assailed by the
Chinese. Further, for the Russians to fail to support the Vietcong was again doubly
dangerous, for if the Vietcong lost, communists would blame the Russians, whereas
if the Vietcong won without Russian help, Chinese influence might rout Russian
influence in Asia."