US grooming India to annoy China, Pakistan’

[qaisar]

Why people tjink like that? which missile is pakistan specifin and which one is designed for china N therefore will not hit us?
A country like india would like to enhance its capabilities to an extant, where they can cater the BIGGEST threat. Once they have acheived that, then confronting the smaller threats will not be the big deal.
In indo-sino scenario How can u think that PIRTHVI is just pakistan specific. It can be as effective against china also, oweing to the fact that both countries(india & china) are not aparted by much distance. Moreover it will be irrational to think that AGNI is not going to hurt us. Yes Not AGNI, but AGNI capabilities can hit us. Because these capab. can be used in enhancing the accuracy of short and medium range missiles.
So, better to talk about capabilities rather than talking of BRANDS.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

First of all, a misnomer must be cleared. The defence sector in the U S is privately owned. Secondly, US doesnot give away its equipment just like that, it just approves the sale of a certain item. The company will make profit and a lots of it at that.

The americans firmly believe that if you have decided against purchasing their equipment, it is totally the buyers loss and not the sellers----because their technology is surpassed by none.

Thirdly, the profit margin on the primary equipment is small. It is the attachments, accessories and rest of the package where the money is made. Like a car that you buy in the U S for $20000 and if you want to build the same from parts, it may cost you $40-50000.

Now coming to the subject of type specific missiles----india has being saying in the U S media for awhile now that india's offensive capabilities are not designed towards pakistan but rather the chinese. That is the hype that india has created to get the U S's support----india has also created a hype that pakistan is no threat and it can be taken out anytime regardless of the missiles, if it was not for the U S. So, for average americans these missiles are designed to fight the chinese aggression one day and india will jump through the hoops for america to contain china. It is all in the perception, you know and the americans believe it with their heart and soul.

Just like israel will take care of the american assets in the middle east and india will do the same for them in south asia.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

So, for average americans these missiles are designed to fight the chinese aggression one day and india will jump through the hoops for america to contain china. It is all in the perception, you know and the americans believe it with their heart and soul.

1st off, the average American doesn't even know where India is and 2nd, very few in Congress is buying it.

 

[Samudra]

1st off, the average American doesn't even know where India is and 2nd, very few in Congress is buying it.

And them Americans already have enough people to "contain" China.I'm not sure if they so badly need India.

That is the hype that india has created to get the U S's support----india has also created a hype that pakistan is no threat

Frankly, that is no hype.
We and the Chinese are doing and intend to do everything short of actual fighting after late 80's.

Moreover it will be irrational to think that AGNI is not going to hurt us

We have a Pak specific Agni.

Prithvis I think will be used only for conventional purposes in due course of time.

The meeting between the leaders of two countries assured such intentions and Russia is even looking into the IP(I) to join.

IP is not going to happen anytime soon and if it does another B shall rise, this time in the west.

 

[Bull]

Hi,
Now coming to the subject of type specific missiles----india has being saying in the U S media for awhile now that india's offensive capabilities are not designed towards pakistan but rather the chinese. That is the hype that india has created to get the U S's support----india has also created a hype that pakistan is no threat and it can be taken out anytime regardless of the missiles, if it was not for the U S.

Im not aware of any such comment or propoganda done by Indians/GOI. Can u post some similar stuff here.

 

[Bull]

Why people tjink like that? which missile is pakistan specifin and which one is designed for china N therefore will not hit us?
A country like india would like to enhance its capabilities to an extant, where they can cater the BIGGEST threat. Once they have acheived that, then confronting the smaller threats will not be the big deal.
In indo-sino scenario How can u think that PIRTHVI is just pakistan specific. It can be as effective against china also, oweing to the fact that both countries(india & china) are not aparted by much distance. Moreover it will be irrational to think that AGNI is not going to hurt us. Yes Not AGNI, but AGNI capabilities can hit us. Because these capab. can be used in enhancing the accuracy of short and medium range missiles.
So, better to talk about capabilities rather than talking of BRANDS.

The max range of a commisioned missile in Indian armoury as far as i know is 1500 km.Which part of China are they going to target with such a range.I strongly believe Agni 1 and 2 will based deep in India targeting Pakistan to provide a second strike capability.

with respect to China,we have the himalayas.And probably once the AGni 3 with a 3500 km range is inducted then we can say we have a China speciifc missile.

 

[Bull]

Just like israel will take care of the american assets in the middle east and india will do the same for them in south asia.

I think this if there is anything as such was arrived after mutual talks rather than due to Indian posture.

 

[MastanKhan]

Bull,

Hi. another member acknowledged my statement a few postings before mine.

Israel taking care of middle east and india taking care of south asia was stated in a sarcastic manner. Israel can't take care of american assets and interests in the middle east and niether can india in south asia.

Office of engineers,

An average american does know about india and the issues with pakistan----I have lived in the heartland of U S for quite a few years and lived with the americans and had minimal contact with my pakistani community and I can tell you that an average american is very well informed. Maybe the younger generation or people living in the big cities maynot have the time, but some of these small town hicks who have spent their time in the millitary are very knowledgable.

 

[Bull]

Bull,

Hi. another member acknowledged my statement a few postings before mine.

Israel taking care of middle east and india taking care of south asia was stated in a sarcastic manner. Israel can't take care of american assets and interests in the middle east and niether can india in south asia.

efinitly Israel can,but doubt whether Indian can with the current force strength.

 

[Muradk]

Bull,

Hi. another member acknowledged my statement a few postings before mine.

Israel taking care of middle east and india taking care of south asia was stated in a sarcastic manner. Israel can't take care of american assets and interests in the middle east and niether can india in south asia.

Office of engineers,

An average american does know about india and the issues with pakistan----I have lived in the heartland of U S for quite a few years and lived with the americans and had minimal contact with my pakistani community and I can tell you that an average american is very well informed. Maybe the younger generation or people living in the big cities maynot have the time, but some of these small town hicks who have spent their time in the millitary are very knowledgable.

Mastan sahib you must be living in a city where every one reads the times and watch CNN ,
most american dont know where there states are talk about india, Most american think pakistan is in middleeast , yes they are quite knowledgeable.
and please my friend my point is not to disrecpect you . University of Harvard did a survey in Boston in Jan 06 where I think people are quite educated 25% said that India is in Asia and 87% said that Pakistan is in middle-east .

 

[MastanKhan]

Murad,

My friend, no disrespect taken. A lot of pakistanis in pakistan don't know if california is a state or a city.

Middle east where it ends and where it starts is anybody's guess but I can only share my experience and the group of people that I was and am associated with.

To analyze any situation or to open up with people, you first have to get 'naked' with them so that the personality does not interfere with the actual scenario and the suit and tie does not create a sense of illusion. One only needs to make sure not to bend over to pick up the bar of soap on the floor.

So, anyway, coming back to the topic----how can india, who has always been a communist ally, who played proxy for russia when american boys were being killed in vietnam by the russian bullets, whoes government was always opposing the U S---what happened! I guess that we got let down down by our elected members of the government who had no clue at that time in the 80's, 90's as to how to deal with the americans. They had the same concept-----americans don't know much----they carefree----they are callous, they left us alone to deal with the afghan situation-----they screwed us on the F 16 deal and so many other things that come up in any relationship. The harshness of the relationship made us bitter and we lost to the savy of the indians who availed the oppurtunity and stuck it right in the guzoo.

 

[Bull]

So, anyway, coming back to the topic----how can india, who has always been a communist ally, who played proxy for russia when american boys were being killed in vietnam by the russian bullets, whoes government was always opposing the U S---what happened! .

India wasnt a communist ally!!! India wasnt a comminist.After Independence NEhru went abt investing state money in developing heavy industries all across India not to meet the demand for the product,but to provide employment.India did have pvt enterprise then also,as most of the present pvt corporates history can be traced to those periods and some even pre independence.

It is this policy of Nehru tha drew both India and Russia closer.

Moreover India i feel was happy being considered as a non aligned country,and was also a founding member of non aligned movement.

But power politics didnt allow India to stand on its own to take on the combined might of US and Pakistan.

I guess that we got let down down by our elected members of the government who had no clue at that time in the 80's, 90's as to how to deal with the americans. They had the same concept-----americans don't know much----they carefree----they are callous, they left us alone to deal with the afghan situation-----they screwed us on the F 16 deal and so many other things that come up in any relationship. The harshness of the relationship made us bitter and we lost to the savy of the indians who availed the oppurtunity and stuck it right in the guzoo.

Well the crucial decision during 90s to open up the economy and the growth India has registered after it also mattered.

 

[Neo]

India wasnt a communist ally!!! India wasnt a comminist.

India was not a communist but a socialist country and even today socialism is alive in Indian politics!

Moreover India i feel was happy being considered as a non aligned country,and was also a founding member of non aligned movement.

Non alignment imho is nothing but a big joke. India was a major Sovjet ally in almost all major events during the cold war.
Nehru chose not to condemn Sovjets in Budapest in 1956, or in Prague, indeed supported Sovjets in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
India was one of the very few non communist countries not to boycot Moscow 1980 Olympics.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Bull,

The 90's didnot help the indians but something else did. You see, as the indian government played a proxy to the soviets, the the indian civilians were onto something else. In the 80's there was hardly a school in the U S of A in which you didnot have indians teaching high level education courses. As a matter of fact they had started pouring into the U S in the late 50's, through the 60's and 70's. Possibly the indian education system had more similiarities to the U S system than the pakistani system.

The american defence industry was flooded with indians----at morton thiokol in the 80's as well as at hercules and any other place. Plus the indians had set up their computer education and training a long time ago. Where were the pakistanis!!! We were bragging about how good our relationship was with the U S government-----the indians were saying----that is fine----we have good relationship with the american people.

Bull, before I get into any further discussion I would like to clarify something. My colours are green and white with a crescent and star----how about yours!

 

[Bull]

Hi Bull, before I get into any further discussion I would like to clarify something. My colours are green and white with a crescent and star----how about yours!

When somebody asks me for my nationality i get a sick feeling that something nasty is on the way.

By the way im an Indian an a good friend of Neo and some other Indians here.