US Drone Strikes In Pakistan

[roadrunner]

RR - PAF dosnt operate attack helicopters the PA does.

Whether it's PAF or PA isn't going to change my point.

unfortunately in any war / armed action there will be collateral damage and by the time what you say can be arranged, the intended targets will be gone. i suggest read up on the several articles posted on the drones attack to understand "why what is going on is going on".

That's simply not true. A drone has some advantages. They might be quieter, and tracking individuals using aerial surveillance does present advantages, but they clearly have in many cases got the wrong targets. I personally have my doubts about the validity of some of the claims coming from the US that this or that militant was killed in the strike. There's no accountability in this process, and people are relying on the word of the US against the tribals. I would prefer a neutral assessment.

Regarding the need for drones again, yes, use drones for surveillance. If they are able to pick and track a target to a house, they can be used to track a target for enough time to launch attack helicopters and direct them to the target. If a target is lost track of, it is better than blowing up innocent people. One has to visualize themselves in their own position before being so callously gung-ho.

"then surround the targets, and offer the chance to surrender if innocent."

the prople who are innocent have left the area!

Noone had been evacuated from Mir Ali, North Waziristan. It was fully populated with lots of innocent people. Unless you want to group your countrymen as guilty people, then such a blanket statement is silly.

"The use of drones really is not necessary"

why would are indomitable president ask the US to supply pakistan with the predator drones?

I don't know. If it's Zardari we can only guess he's thinking of selling them to another country with 10% commission.

 

[roadrunner]

"It's a shame that your knowledge of the tribal areas is as poor as your reasoning."

Maybe. Many Mexican-Americans carry a lot of American Indian blood. Some very distinctively so. Not many Castillians there. They wouldn't fit.

Mexicans-Americans could fit from what I've seen of them. Whether they're mixed or not, I do not know.

Blond beards? Hmmm... Asian? Lot of shapes and tones that go beyond almond eyes?

I don't know what you mean here. You've obviously no experience of the region. Blonde beards do exist in the tribal areas, though they're not very common at all. In the US Army, blonde beards are also not very common.

This is simply irrelevant though, since it's very simple to color dye a beard.

Then there are the habits and mannerisms. It would be awhile before a non-pashtu acts like a pashtu.

That I can agree with. Which is why you need to train soldiers to act like locals. The point is, it can be done quite easily.

roadrunner, I had a friend who spent 18 weeks over three trips with the mujahideen between 1984-1987. It was very, very difficult and he's VERY bright.

Bright to you is relative.

But...you're the pro who's facilties of reason are sooooo intact. We don't fit and you're a fool if you think so...or eager to see our guys killed.

I'll select both.

I agree the average American is easy to spot. But as an informant, you don't pick an average American. You pick a couple, and train them. Then disperse them. This is very easy to do, and can be done for white Americans in the tribal areas. The only problem with this is that tribes know each other. It's more likely that people from those tribes reveal information, and sometimes this can be wrong information to collect rewards.

There were pictures of Americans in tribal outfit in fact somewhere. If I find them, I'll paste them here.

 

[S-2]

"This is very easy to do, and can be done for white Americans in the tribal areas."

I see. A little dye is the key. Gotcha. Thanks.

I'm sure your remedy explains both the near question (Americans in FATAland) and the far question (who's providing the intel on these strikes).

The Yanks have infiltrated FATAland. It's very easy to do, don't you know?

 

[Vinod2070]

"This is very easy to do, and can be done for white Americans in the tribal areas."

I see. A little dye is the key. Gotcha. Thanks.

How silly of you guys to miss such an obvious thing!

Get some of the local consultants to ensure you don't miss out on these nuggets of wisdom ever again. What I have heard, they don't cost a bomb. Especially if you are not paying in the local currency (the Afghani) but in the greenbacks.

 

[Munir]

Atleast the Pakistani are not dying to say in every interview they want to be part of global coalition and are a real superpower... It depends how you see... If you are a rich Indian prick then you might love to hear that you are accepted as equal in USA but the fact remains that the feeling is bsaed on inferior complexity. But do find it important to hear that while India is 1/5 of the earth population it is hardly more then a dish washer (and then only in the IT world). It tries to control Pakistan (deuuhhh I know you would say that it is China oriented) and cannot do anything else the rape Kashmir...

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ Good that you have taken out your frustrations here.

Better than keeping them inside and boiling over you know.

 

[johnee]

Atleast the Pakistani are not dying to say in every interview they want to be part of global coalition and are a real superpower... It depends how you see... If you are a rich Indian prick then you might love to hear that you are accepted as equal in USA but the fact remains that the feeling is bsaed on inferior complexity. But do find it important to hear that while India is 1/5 of the earth population it is hardly more then a dish washer (and then only in the IT world). It tries to control Pakistan (deuuhhh I know you would say that it is China oriented) and cannot do anything else the rape Kashmir...

US drones are attacking pak..........wat is it gotta do with indian IT and kashmir........
mate, you are a thinktank and your post is full of india-bashing and nothing on the point of discussion.......
shouldnt you be setting the standard for others?

 

[Gulfam]

Hye!
I would like to draw your attention to an issue that has become a thorn-in-heart for every pakistani!
I am going to discuss and share with you the recent emerging situation at our western border with Afghanistan.
The missle attacks by American forces using their Drones has become a routine practice. Moreover their special forces have once attacked a village "angar ada" near the borded. This is no doubt a serious voilation of pakistani sovereignty and has provoked anger and vengeance in the hearts of those living in tribal areas and every pakistani.
But that is just one side of picture....indeed America is a super power and she will go to any limit to safeguard her interests,without caring they are operating in pakistan or Afghanistan because they are reponsible for the lives of their soldiers in Afghanistan....and most significantly for them its not soldiers\economy or the both that is at stake.....according to them its an ideology...a sacred thought ...a " NEW WORLD ORDER"!....they will do what ever pleases them.
What i am here to discuss is that "WHAT OUR GOVT. IS DOING?".
I remember the first day when American drones attacked inside our terrotry.....the foriegn office issued a statement condemning the attacks , our president said a few words and it was over......but what happend on ground was a brittle reality......despite these condemnations the attacked continued!....and we were made a laughing stack when our parliment approved a report with heavy majority demanding the NATO and US forces to stop the attacks but they continued it even with increased proportion.
Our Minister for defense,Army Chief,PM, President all said that it is impossible to stop these attacks and we have no option other than continuing diplomatic efforts to stop these attacks.
Now i am gona tell you all what options we have:-
1:- America has only 2 supply lines for its army in Afghanistan and both of them pass through pakistan, if we stop these supplies American Forces cant stand Afghan resistance for more then 10 days! than how can they operate against pakistan?
2:- America has approx 40000 soldiers in Afghanistan and we have got an active force of 619,000 personnel and 528,000 men in reserve that continue to serve until the age of 45 and several other groups functioning under its many umbrella organisations. Is it still impossible for us to stop U.S ?
3:-U.S has over streached it army by opening two battle fronts at a time in Afghanistan and then in Iraq, in present situation they can never afford an open war with world`s 7th strongest Army.
4akistan has got a strong nuclear capabilty in case of an open war pakistan can easlily target U.S instalations like Bagram Air base and all the bases in Afghanistan. Most significantly the U.S CENTCOM(Central Command) in Doha(Qatar) is in range of pakistani missiles.
5:- Its indeed ture that America is a super power and we need them, but what is worth noting is that Americans need us more then we need them!
6:- All the important trade routes of world pass through Arabian sea and in case of war pakistan has got the ability to stop them!
7:- About the drone attacks.....well everybody knows you can even shoot them down with an AK-47! and if you say they fly at high attitudes then we have SAM missiles, we have got a fully functional Air Force, if it can bomb targets in sawat and waziristan then why cant it shoot down the drones?

So readers.....that is what we are capable of!
The need of the hour is that pakistani govt should show all these possibilties to NATO and U.S and ORDER them (not request) to stop these provocative and unjust attacks inside our terrotry that has cost has lives of hundreds of innocent pakistanis!

 

[S-2]

"The need of the hour is that pakistani govt should show all these possibilties to NATO and U.S and ORDER them (not request) to stop these provocative and unjust attacks inside our terrotry that has cost has lives of hundreds of innocent pakistanis!"

Yeah! You tell those dirty yanks "how it is" and then give them a good ol' "what for" across the top of their thick skulls.

You da man, stud!!!

 

[roadrunner]

"This is very easy to do, and can be done for white Americans in the tribal areas."

I see. A little dye is the key. Gotcha. Thanks.

I find it amusing that you have difficulty believing this resulting in rather foolish sarcasm when you simply do not understand what a tribal is, nor what a tribal looks like. It's not Africa with lots of negroes dancing around a fire with a grass skirt, just so you don't get confused!

I'm sure your remedy explains both the near question (Americans in FATAland) and the far question (who's providing the intel on these strikes).

My only assertion was that it is possible for Americans to work in that area with some training. More likely there are local spies.

The Yanks have infiltrated FATAland. It's very easy to do, don't you know?

Just about every superpower that invaded Afghanistan had spies in the tribal areas. It wasn't even difficult to place these spies, local or not.

 

[roadrunner]

Now i am gona tell you all what options we have:-
1:- America has only 2 supply lines for its army in Afghanistan and both of them pass through pakistan, if we stop these supplies American Forces cant stand Afghan resistance for more then 10 days! than how can they operate against pakistan?
2:- America has approx 40000 soldiers in Afghanistan and we have got an active force of 619,000 personnel and 528,000 men in reserve that continue to serve until the age of 45 and several other groups functioning under its many umbrella organisations. Is it still impossible for us to stop U.S ?
3:-U.S has over streached it army by opening two battle fronts at a time in Afghanistan and then in Iraq, in present situation they can never afford an open war with world`s 7th strongest Army.
4akistan has got a strong nuclear capabilty in case of an open war pakistan can easlily target U.S instalations like Bagram Air base and all the bases in Afghanistan. Most significantly the U.S CENTCOM(Central Command) in Doha(Qatar) is in range of pakistani missiles.
5:- Its indeed ture that America is a super power and we need them, but what is worth noting is that Americans need us more then we need them!
6:- All the important trade routes of world pass through Arabian sea and in case of war pakistan has got the ability to stop them!
7:- About the drone attacks.....well everybody knows you can even shoot them down with an AK-47! and if you say they fly at high attitudes then we have SAM missiles, we have got a fully functional Air Force, if it can bomb targets in sawat and waziristan then why cant it shoot down the drones?

So readers.....that is what we are capable of!
The need of the hour is that pakistani govt should show all these possibilties to NATO and U.S and ORDER them (not request) to stop these provocative and unjust attacks inside our terrotry that has cost has lives of hundreds of innocent pakistanis!

1) no point. They'll get reinforcements from Tajikistan or Uzbekistan.
2), 3), and 4). no point in making war with America.
5) Pakistan doesn't need America. It has China. America's economy and military is waning. China's is rising in both cases. In a decade, Pakistan will be getting better technology from China than the Americans can produce.
6) no point.
7) I'd agree. The drone attacks are getting too common, and there appears to be no accountability. They might be just shooting at people randomly that happen to look like someone, because they have a beard and similar facial features. More proof should be provided.

 

[Gulfam]

1) no point. They'll get reinforcements from Tajikistan or Uzbekistan.
2), 3), and 4). no point in making war with America.
5) Pakistan doesn't need America. It has China. America's economy and military is waning. China's is rising in both cases. In a decade, Pakistan will be getting better technology from China than the Americans can produce.
6) no point.
7) I'd agree. The drone attacks are getting too common, and there appears to be no accountability. They might be just shooting at people randomly that happen to look like someone, because they have a beard and similar facial features. More proof should be provided.

I dont think Russia will allow American supplies through Tajikistan or Uzbekistan....not under present conditions when American economy has gone too fragile and they cant afford a 'cold-war-like' manouver!
Secondly my objective was not to explain how we will defend or fight a war against US, i was only explaining pakistan`s capability and meanwhole exposing the cowardness our Govt has displayed!

 

[S-2]

"...you simply do not understand what a tribal is, nor what a tribal looks like. It's not Africa with lots of negroes dancing around a fire with a grass skirt, just so you don't get confused!"

Well, look at your understanding? So nuanced! Grass skirts, eh?

Guess you missed the part about my friend crossing into Afghanistan three times over three years at six weeks per. That's o.k. I suppose he sorta knew what a "tribal" was and how a "tribal" looks. Still, he was never comfortable and with good reason.

We had C.I.A. all over Afghanistan in October 2001. They never operated without considerable local (read N.A.) assistance and never among the general population. Read "FIRST IN" by Gary Schroen if interested.

I know and respect his concerns considerably more than you. He's been there and done that and it was none too easy.

Save your pictures. I can google like you. I understand supremely well that we've no Americans operating surveillance activities in FATAland on their own or as a couple.

Evidently you don't. That's rather amusing also.

See? I'm laughing...out loud

 

[Gulfam]

I would just like to know that how well you people(US) are going in Afghanistan? what are the ground realities? how far are you from complete success and what measures are being taken to crush the insurgency? Is there any change of plan? has Mr.Obama changed the way things will work in Aghanistan?

 

[roadrunner]

"...you simply do not understand what a tribal is, nor what a tribal looks like. It's not Africa with lots of negroes dancing around a fire with a grass skirt, just so you don't get confused!"

Well, look at your understanding? So nuanced! Grass skirts, eh?

Guess you missed the part about my friend crossing into Afghanistan three times over three years at six weeks per. That's o.k. I suppose he sorta knew what a "tribal" was and how a "tribal" looks. Still, he was never comfortable and with good reason.

We had C.I.A. all over Afghanistan in October 2001. They never operated without considerable local (read N.A.) assistance and never among the general population. Read "FIRST IN" by Gary Schroen if interested.

I know and respect his concerns considerably more than you. He's been there and done that and it was none too easy.

Save your pictures. I can google like you. I understand supremely well that we've no Americans operating surveillance activities in FATAland on their own or as a couple.

Evidently you don't. That's rather amusing also.

See? I'm laughing...out loud

Obviously your friend wasn't very good at what he did then. It's been done before many a time. But at least you've grasped the tribals in FATA are not dancing around cauldrons in semi naked attire during evening recitals of voodoo magic. Hope is there.