US Drone Strikes In Pakistan

[fatman17]

If wrong, give us a yell. You ain't seen nuthin' till you see an ARC-LIGHT strike from B-52s droppin' iron bombs. Ask the Iraqis in DESERT STORM. It's not a good place to be.

well we hope it dosnt get to that but upgrade the F-16s in our inventory with targeting pods and nite-strike capability and see what happens!

 

[S-2]

"...who is providing the intell for predator strikes from the ground?"

My guess is that it isn't us. We're mainly white guys, black guys, Mexicans, and some asian guys. All stand out like sore thumbs in FATAland. Hmmm...targeting has been DAMNED good lately.

Any guesses?

 

[Patriot]

S-2,
You have to understand that we just can't start full scale war against them.Our economic conditions are not good plus keep in mind that area was never under control of GOP and no one was able to control that area ever in history and how do you expect Pakistani army to get that area in few years?Also, we're getting more injuries because of this trouble.I am pretty sure more people have died in suicide attacks in Pakistan then people who died in 9/11.You just can't win this war by military methods alone.You have to win people's heart to win the war and we also have to look after our national interests.We're US ally not servants.The way you post here really makes me angry.You think we should just do whatever America tells us to do and not look after our national interests.You probably think our Army Generals are bunch of fools while your army generals are very intelligent which just shows how arrogant you are.I am very pro America and anti-Taliban/Mullah and i like reading your posts but i think you should be little more nice when posting.

 

[S-2]

"You probably think our Army Generals are bunch of fools while your army generals are very intelligent..."

Of course not. We've enough generals that there's always one somewhere doing something stupid. We've absolutely no lock on intelligence and there are a number who've upset me in the past or do now. Casey and Odinero come to mind. So too Sanchez.

"You have to understand that we just can't start full scale war against them. Our economic conditions are not good plus keep in mind that area was never under control of GOP and no one was able to control that area ever in history and how do you expect Pakistani army to get that area in few years?"

If need be, you'd start a full-scale war against India tomorrow regardless of your economic condition. You'd do so in the certainty that failure to fight would lead to your subjugation. Can you explain to me what's different here in the implications, please besides the potential to disappear from the face of the earth in a moment's flash?

As to control, I know that your nation has not attempted to exert it's writ upon this area. You've neither given to, nor taken from this area to any great degree. That's in the past and must change. It will take many years, I suspect.

I hope that you can learn to tolerate me. I'm not that bad of a guy. I just happen to be an American.

It carries it's own burdens at times.

 

[Patriot]

"You probably think our Army Generals are bunch of fools while your army generals are very intelligent..."

Of course not. We've enough generals that there's always one somewhere doing something stupid. We've absolutely no lock on intelligence and there are a number who've upset me in the past or do now. Casey and Odinero come to mind. So too Sanchez.

"You have to understand that we just can't start full scale war against them. Our economic conditions are not good plus keep in mind that area was never under control of GOP and no one was able to control that area ever in history and how do you expect Pakistani army to get that area in few years?"

If need be, you'd start a full-scale war against India tomorrow regardless of your economic condition. You'd do so in the certainty that failure to fight would lead to your subjugation. Can you explain to me what's different here in the implications, please besides the potential to disappear from the face of the earth in a moment's flash?

As to control, I know that your nation has not attempted to exert it's writ upon this area. You've neither given to, nor taken from this area to any great degree. That's in the past and must change. It will take many years, I suspect.

I hope that you can learn to tolerate me. I'm not that bad of a guy. I just happen to be an American.

It carries it's own burdens at times.

We will only wage full scale war against India if they start it (Yes, we made mistakes in past).Honestly i highly doubt Army will start war without any reason.Its impossible.Indo-Pak relations are getting better and we've lost a lot of great soldiers in WOT..You have to give us some time..

 

[S-2]

You miss my point. I'm certain that your army wouldn't start a war without reason. Armies rarely do in any case. Usually it's their civilian leaders.

My point, simply, is that you'd fight India if necessary. You'd fight India with everything you had. This is no different and, possibly, worse. Your enemy is already inside the gates and is as ruthless as ever seen.

You suggest that you've lost more than America on 9/11. I believe you. I know that the Iraqis have and so too the Afghanis. This enemy doesn't care and actively seeks out civilians as targets and shelter from attack.

Indo-Pak relations ARE improving. Fruit trucks cross the LOC daily now. This is a good and (in my mind) inevitable progression. It's actually natural that India and Pakistan should be allies-much like Canada and America. Severe disagreements, to be sure, but you share so much that's common ground.

Let's hope for a better future.

"You have to give us some time..."

It's the one thing that none of us have enough. To paraphrase an old hippie song, "Time has come today".

 

[Patriot]

We can't wage full scale war but they don't have an active army plus this issue is very sensitive.They're hiding behind civilian army.We'd fight Indian Army but AQ does not have army.Gunilla warfare is far more difficult the 1on1 war imo.

 

[fatman17]

"...who is providing the intell for predator strikes from the ground?"

My guess is that it isn't us. We're mainly white guys, black guys, Mexicans, and some asian guys. All stand out like sore thumbs in FATAland. Hmmm...targeting has been DAMNED good lately.

Any guesses?

exactamundo senor!

 

[roadrunner]

"...who is providing the intell for predator strikes from the ground?"

My guess is that it isn't us. We're mainly white guys, black guys, Mexicans, and some asian guys. All stand out like sore thumbs in FATAland. Hmmm...targeting has been DAMNED good lately.

Any guesses?

It's a shame that your knowledge of the tribal areas is as poor as your reasoning.

Tribesmen in FATA are white caucasians. The Mexicans and the white guys would definitely not look out of place in FATA so long as they keep their beards and wear the local dresses. The Asians would also not look out of place in FATA due to the Hazaric presence, but also the recent flow of Uzbeks inti the region. Perhaps the only ones from the US army that would look out of place would be the black guys. All the other denominations seem to be present in FATA.

 

[roadrunner]

The drone strikes within Pakistan are pretty criminal imo. Several times there's been no valuable target, but collateral damage causing the loss of life. That's unacceptable. If there's definite proof, then rather than striking the area with drones (which need to take off and reach to the area from Afghanistan), have some PAF attack helicopters on standby near the tribal areas, and when information comes to the Americans, they pass it onto the helicopter crews who then surround the targets, and offer the chance to surrender if innocent. If the US Army doesn't trust the PAF, that's also fine, and the PAF helicopters perhaps can take a US army observer along (or in a seperate helicopter), so they can see the action being taken over their intelligence. The use of drones really is not necessary.

 

[Kasrkin]

"You probably think our Army Generals are bunch of fools while your army generals are very intelligent..."

Of course not. We've enough generals that there's always one somewhere doing something stupid. We've absolutely no lock on intelligence and there are a number who've upset me in the past or do now. Casey and Odinero come to mind. So too Sanchez.

"You have to understand that we just can't start full scale war against them. Our economic conditions are not good plus keep in mind that area was never under control of GOP and no one was able to control that area ever in history and how do you expect Pakistani army to get that area in few years?"

If need be, you'd start a full-scale war against India tomorrow regardless of your economic condition. You'd do so in the certainty that failure to fight would lead to your subjugation. Can you explain to me what's different here in the implications, please besides the potential to disappear from the face of the earth in a moment's flash?

As to control, I know that your nation has not attempted to exert it's writ upon this area. You've neither given to, nor taken from this area to any great degree. That's in the past and must change. It will take many years, I suspect.

I hope that you can learn to tolerate me. I'm not that bad of a guy. I just happen to be an American.

It carries it's own burdens at times.

I agree about the part where we have to fight all our enemies with the same determination. But at the same time I feel its not for anyone else to tell us how to fight, who to fight, when to fight and how much to fight...unless that anyone wishes to pick a fight with us that is.

Everyone's interests are exclusively self-serving, we would be fools to tow anyone else's line exactly the way they prefer it, no matter how much they cover it up with the "we know whats best you for" crap.

 

[fatman17]

The drone strikes within Pakistan are pretty criminal imo. Several times there's been no valuable target, but collateral damage causing the loss of life. That's unacceptable. If there's definite proof, then rather than striking the area with drones (which need to take off and reach to the area from Afghanistan), have some PAF attack helicopters on standby near the tribal areas, and when information comes to the Americans, they pass it onto the helicopter crews who then surround the targets, and offer the chance to surrender if innocent. If the US Army doesn't trust the PAF, that's also fine, and the PAF helicopters perhaps can take a US army observer along (or in a seperate helicopter), so they can see the action being taken over their intelligence. The use of drones really is not necessary.

RR - PAF dosnt operate attack helicopters the PA does. unfortunately in any war / armed action there will be collateral damage and by the time what you say can be arranged, the intended targets will be gone. i suggest read up on the several articles posted on the drones attack to understand "why what is going on is going on".

"then surround the targets, and offer the chance to surrender if innocent."

the prople who are innocent have left the area!

"The use of drones really is not necessary"

why would are indomitable president ask the US to supply pakistan with the predator drones?

 

[Kasrkin]

If your neighbor spends his free time blowing up Pakistani soldiers, beheading paramilitary and policemen, inviting criminals and terrorists across the world to live on the ground floor...and you know about all this and you STILL don’t do anything i.e. informing the authorities, asking the terrorists to leave, threatening them with your own formidable arsenal of weapons that every family has if they don’t leave or informing tribal elders. Then in my opinion you are NO innocent sir. Only after the bombs have fallen do the locals say oh BTW there was a foreign terrorist living here and then they go on to whine about how it is the Americans who violate Pakistan’s sovereignty (which they care about all of a sudden).

Loi Sam is the only way to deal with unruly and disloyal tribes if you ask me, because a tribe is like an army. With its own hierarchy and chain of command, everyone in the area contributes…whether it is the women growing/making the food the fighters eat, or kids providing the future reserves (and occasionally human shields or prisoner-head-choppers). And that’s the rule of being a soldier, you get punished both in this world and the next for your commander’s mistakes or decisions because that’s what soldiers do, they follow orders. If your tribal chiefs made a bad decision and became traitors, and you are obliged to follow them through blind loyalty and tradition, well that’s too bad for you. But you will pay. Like a PoW can’t go up to his enemy and say “please let me go, I was just following orders by invading your country. It was my commander’s decision”, because at the end of the day that’s what being in the military is all about…blind loyalty. And the tribe is the oldest and basic martial entity, so if tribe’s village is being used against us then bye bye village just a like it would be bye bye military garrison in conventional war.

 

[S-2]

"It's a shame that your knowledge of the tribal areas is as poor as your reasoning."

Maybe. Many Mexican-Americans carry a lot of American Indian blood. Some very distinctively so. Not many Castillians there. They wouldn't fit.

Blond beards? Hmmm... Asian? Lot of shapes and tones that go beyond almond eyes?

Then there are the habits and mannerisms. It would be awhile before a non-pashtu acts like a pashtu.

roadrunner, I had a friend who spent 18 weeks over three trips with the mujahideen between 1984-1987. It was very, very difficult and he's VERY bright.

But...you're the pro who's facilties of reason are sooooo intact. We don't fit and you're a fool if you think so...or eager to see our guys killed.

I'll select both.

 

[Vinod2070]

Even the non-tribal Pakistanis can't fit there AFAIK. Not even in their own tribal areas.