Leader
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16-yr-old Tariq who joined anti-drone protest in Islamabad Friday killed in drone strike last night, says anti-drone campaigner Karim Khan.
US Drone strikes in Pakistan are illegal under international law.
- Thread starter Metallic
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16-yr-old Tariq who joined anti-drone protest in Islamabad Friday killed in drone strike last night, says anti-drone campaigner Karim Khan.
LeGenD
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Pakistani people are generally not interested in US related affairs. People are worried about the state of affairs in Pakistan and their worsening living standards due to double-digit inflation.
This is the reality that our media sources need to realize and stop in their vague attempts to distract people from more pressing matters in Pakistan.
This is the reality that our media sources need to realize and stop in their vague attempts to distract people from more pressing matters in Pakistan.
Frankenstein
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When tribal elders from the remote Pakistani region of North Waziristan travelled to Islamabad last week to protest against CIA drone strikes, a teenager called Tariq Khan was among them.
A BBC team caught him on camera, sitting near the front of a tribal assembly, or jirga, listening carefully.
Four days later he was dead - killed by one of the drones he was protesting against.
His family told us two missiles hit the 16-year-old on Monday near Miranshah, the main town in North Waziristan. His 12-year-old cousin Wahid was killed alongside him.
The boys were on their way to see a relative, according to Tariq's uncle, Noor Kalam, who we reached by phone.
He denied that Tariq had any link to militant groups. "We condemn this very strongly," he said. "He was just a normal boy who loved football."
The CIA's drone campaign is a covert war, conducted in remote terrain, where the facts are often in dispute.
The tribal belt is off limits to foreign journalists. Militants often seal off the locations where drone strikes take place. The truth can be buried with the dead.
After the missile strike on Monday, Pakistani officials said four suspected militants had been killed.
If the strike actually killed two young boys - as appears to be the case - it's unlikely anyone will ever be held to account.
There are no confirmed death tolls but several independent organisations estimate that drones have killed more than 2,000 people since 2004. Most are suspected to be militants.
Many senior commanders from the Taliban and al-Qaeda are among the dead. But campaigners claim there have been hundreds of civilian victims, whose stories are seldom told.
A drone aircraft of the kind used by the US military The use of drone missiles has soared
A shy teenage boy called Saadullah is one of them. He survived a drone strike that killed three of his relatives, but he lost both legs, one eye and his hope for the future.
"I wanted to be a doctor," he told me, "but I can't walk to school anymore. When I see others going, I wish I could join them."
Like Tariq, Saadullah travelled to Islamabad for last week's jirga. Seated alongside him was Haji Zardullah, a white-bearded man who said he lost four nephews in a separate attack.
"None of these were harmful people," he said. "Two were still in school and one was in college."
Asghar Khan, a tribal elder in a cream turban, said three of his relatives paid with their lives for visiting a sick neighbour.
"My brother, my nephew and another relative were killed by a drone in 2008," he said. "They were sitting with this sick man when the attack took place. There were no Taliban."
Legal challenges
Viewed from a drone, any adult male in the tribal areas can look like a target, according to Mirza Shahzad Akbar, a Pakistani lawyer who is taking on the CIA.
"A Taliban or non-Taliban would be dressed in the same way," he said. "Everyone has a beard, a turban and an AK-47 because every person carries a weapon in that area, so anyone could be target."
Clive Stafford Smith, director of the British legal charity Reprieve, holding the fragment of a missile Campaigners like Clive Stafford Smith say drones are resulting in murder
Mr Akbar is suing the CIA for compensation in the Islamabad High Court, and plans to file a Supreme Court action.
He claims the US is getting away with murder in North Waziristan. It's a view shared by the British legal charity Reprieve, whose director, Clive Stafford Smith, has been meeting drone victims in Pakistan.
"What's going on here, unfortunately, is murder," he said.
"There's a war going on in Afghanistan, but none here in Pakistan, so what the CIA is doing here is illegal."
The CIA would doubtless say otherwise, if it were prepared to discuss the drone programme, but US officials are usually silent on the issue.
In a rare public comment two years ago, the then director of the CIA, Leon Panetta, defended the use of drones.
"We have targeted those who are enemies of the United States," he said. " When we use it, it is very precise and it limits collateral damage."
But the damage is not limited enough, say opponents like Mr Stafford Smith, who is gathering evidence about civilian deaths. From a shopping bag he produced a jagged chunk of metal - a missile fragment - believed to have killed a child in Waziristan in August of last year.
"I have a three-year-old son myself, and the idea that this thing killed someone very much like my little Wilf really tugs at your heart strings," he said.
Mr Stafford Smith says drones are changing the nature of modern warfare.
"If you are trying to surrender and you put your hands up to a drone, what happens?" he asks.
"They just fire the missile, so there are all sorts of Geneva Conventions issues which are not being discussed."
Campaigners also warn that drone strikes are counter-productive, generating more radicalism and more hatred of the West. They say the drone strikes are a Taliban recruiting tool.
At Tariq Khan's funeral, many mourners spoke out against the US, according to his uncle Noor Kalam.
But Washington is unlikely to heed the anger here. Under President Barack Obama, the use of drone missiles has soared - there's an attack on average every four days.
Increasingly, these remote-controlled killers are Washington's weapon of choice.
source: BBC News - Pakistani civilian victims vent anger over US drones
Sorry if its already posted, and its very annoying that how US gets away with every murder
A BBC team caught him on camera, sitting near the front of a tribal assembly, or jirga, listening carefully.
Four days later he was dead - killed by one of the drones he was protesting against.
His family told us two missiles hit the 16-year-old on Monday near Miranshah, the main town in North Waziristan. His 12-year-old cousin Wahid was killed alongside him.
The boys were on their way to see a relative, according to Tariq's uncle, Noor Kalam, who we reached by phone.
He denied that Tariq had any link to militant groups. "We condemn this very strongly," he said. "He was just a normal boy who loved football."
The CIA's drone campaign is a covert war, conducted in remote terrain, where the facts are often in dispute.
The tribal belt is off limits to foreign journalists. Militants often seal off the locations where drone strikes take place. The truth can be buried with the dead.
After the missile strike on Monday, Pakistani officials said four suspected militants had been killed.
If the strike actually killed two young boys - as appears to be the case - it's unlikely anyone will ever be held to account.
There are no confirmed death tolls but several independent organisations estimate that drones have killed more than 2,000 people since 2004. Most are suspected to be militants.
Many senior commanders from the Taliban and al-Qaeda are among the dead. But campaigners claim there have been hundreds of civilian victims, whose stories are seldom told.
A drone aircraft of the kind used by the US military The use of drone missiles has soared
A shy teenage boy called Saadullah is one of them. He survived a drone strike that killed three of his relatives, but he lost both legs, one eye and his hope for the future.
"I wanted to be a doctor," he told me, "but I can't walk to school anymore. When I see others going, I wish I could join them."
Like Tariq, Saadullah travelled to Islamabad for last week's jirga. Seated alongside him was Haji Zardullah, a white-bearded man who said he lost four nephews in a separate attack.
"None of these were harmful people," he said. "Two were still in school and one was in college."
Asghar Khan, a tribal elder in a cream turban, said three of his relatives paid with their lives for visiting a sick neighbour.
"My brother, my nephew and another relative were killed by a drone in 2008," he said. "They were sitting with this sick man when the attack took place. There were no Taliban."
Legal challenges
Viewed from a drone, any adult male in the tribal areas can look like a target, according to Mirza Shahzad Akbar, a Pakistani lawyer who is taking on the CIA.
"A Taliban or non-Taliban would be dressed in the same way," he said. "Everyone has a beard, a turban and an AK-47 because every person carries a weapon in that area, so anyone could be target."
Clive Stafford Smith, director of the British legal charity Reprieve, holding the fragment of a missile Campaigners like Clive Stafford Smith say drones are resulting in murder
Mr Akbar is suing the CIA for compensation in the Islamabad High Court, and plans to file a Supreme Court action.
He claims the US is getting away with murder in North Waziristan. It's a view shared by the British legal charity Reprieve, whose director, Clive Stafford Smith, has been meeting drone victims in Pakistan.
"What's going on here, unfortunately, is murder," he said.
"There's a war going on in Afghanistan, but none here in Pakistan, so what the CIA is doing here is illegal."
The CIA would doubtless say otherwise, if it were prepared to discuss the drone programme, but US officials are usually silent on the issue.
In a rare public comment two years ago, the then director of the CIA, Leon Panetta, defended the use of drones.
"We have targeted those who are enemies of the United States," he said. " When we use it, it is very precise and it limits collateral damage."
But the damage is not limited enough, say opponents like Mr Stafford Smith, who is gathering evidence about civilian deaths. From a shopping bag he produced a jagged chunk of metal - a missile fragment - believed to have killed a child in Waziristan in August of last year.
"I have a three-year-old son myself, and the idea that this thing killed someone very much like my little Wilf really tugs at your heart strings," he said.
Mr Stafford Smith says drones are changing the nature of modern warfare.
"If you are trying to surrender and you put your hands up to a drone, what happens?" he asks.
"They just fire the missile, so there are all sorts of Geneva Conventions issues which are not being discussed."
Campaigners also warn that drone strikes are counter-productive, generating more radicalism and more hatred of the West. They say the drone strikes are a Taliban recruiting tool.
At Tariq Khan's funeral, many mourners spoke out against the US, according to his uncle Noor Kalam.
But Washington is unlikely to heed the anger here. Under President Barack Obama, the use of drone missiles has soared - there's an attack on average every four days.
Increasingly, these remote-controlled killers are Washington's weapon of choice.
source: BBC News - Pakistani civilian victims vent anger over US drones
Sorry if its already posted, and its very annoying that how US gets away with every murder
Doctor09
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what was the crime of that innocent soul ?
shame on GOP shame on USA and shame on all those who support drone strikes
he was just 16 can you imagine just 16yrs child and they killed him in cold blood .... now tell me who is real terrorist that innocent kid or USA ?
shame on GOP shame on USA and shame on all those who support drone strikes
he was just 16 can you imagine just 16yrs child and they killed him in cold blood .... now tell me who is real terrorist that innocent kid or USA ?
Perceptron
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The new "game" in town is back with a bang this season. You keep sending 'em, we keep whacking 'em. They surely are the next best thing since the invention of the wheel !!!
Sinnerman108
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They are Pakistanis ?
Looks more like the Guitar harping "Jeans" and Kewl kids that we seem to find a lot on this forum.
from a population of nearly 180 million, and a normal distribution , these " Kewl Characters" comprise less than 1%, but make 99% of the noise.
JAT BALWAN
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that`s a tragedy of our nations pakistan and India... if any thing against India going to happens on roads maximum will interested in that, such a "hauwa" created by our politicians for ages.
Frankenstein
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US drones strike result is just murdering innocents, no one cared to go through this thread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/138387-drones-resulting-murder.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/138387-drones-resulting-murder.html
Frankenstein
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"DON'T THEY DESERVE TO LIVE"
If anyone after reading this say that Drone strike is necessary, THEN HE CAN GO TO HELL
If anyone after reading this say that Drone strike is necessary, THEN HE CAN GO TO HELL
karan.1970
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Drone strikes are necessitated by Pakistan's refusal to go after terrorists in its North Waziristan area. This policy to allow safe havens to continue is equally responsible if not more for civilian deaths caused by the drone strikes targeting these terrorists..
1. Pakistani related threads are not allowed in World affair section.
2. Drone threads should be posted in a sticky in the pakistan's war section.
3. I hope Mods issue infraction to the thread starter as they issue to Indians if someone posted the same in wrong section.
2. Drone threads should be posted in a sticky in the pakistan's war section.
3. I hope Mods issue infraction to the thread starter as they issue to Indians if someone posted the same in wrong section.
Frankenstein
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1. Pakistani related threads are not allowed in World affair section.
2. Drone threads should be posted in a sticky in the pakistan's war section.
3. I hope Mods issue infraction to the thread starter as they issue to Indians if someone posted the same in wrong section.
I was going to post it in Pakistan's War section but it says ". Post U.S. "War on Terror" topics in World Affairs forum." so I posted it here, kapish
Perceptron
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^^^ That is because your own people said that they neither have the will, the firepower, nor the writ to go against the Al-Qaeda and Taliban hiding amongst civilian population to bring them to justice. Now that they are being brought to justice, and your own Army officials in North Waziristan, Mehmood Ghayur say that the civilian casualty is a myth, with many casualties being hardcore terrorists, how do you contradict them ?
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