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US delayed information about IED factories:Maj Gen Rizwan

Or is it that 'some' people are just picking up everything, right or wrong, to portray the army as weak? who knows there is some hidden agenda of some people.. after all, its the same Army who wants them to be given authority to fight back.. how would you feel if your hands and feet are tied and then you are told to fight a 10 year old?.. i guess its gonna take some time but he'll be able to kill you.. why are the Political and Democratic government not allowing the Army to take extreme action to protect the sovereignty of the country?.. no matter if they have to hit inside Pakistan or Inside Afghanistan, whether Afghans die or US soldiers..

How about giving them free hand 'publicly' to deal with all the unrest? and allowing them to take actions 'unilaterally'?..

How about letting them deal with everything? How about asking them to take control?..

If even then they fail, we can say that Army is not worth it.. I mean, we never had these kind of problems in any of the Martial Law..

Any takers?

Sir,

Thank you for your post---any statements by the army are SOB STORIES NOW----they are all excuses of one kind or the other-----. Now they are hiding behind this scenario because of their screwups of the past---remember the past comes and haunts you for the rest of your lives and it is going to be no different for the pak millitary-----.

You have to accept the fact now----pak millitary general staff has some major issues-----issues of not reading what the americans were doing since 9/11-----what we are paying for today is not what we did yesterday but what we didnot do 9 years ago-----this getting bitten in the behind is due to the games these millitary men played for the longest period of time.

You people give them too much credit---it is acceptable when it comes to bravery and laying down their lives and their courage most of the time is not in question----but war is more than dying for your country----the problem is with their strategy and gamesmanship-----the problem is with playing the game very loosely----.

Their assessment of the problem and issues with problem solving is not upto par-------. The OBL issue was the best thing to have happened to pak millitary----Gilani should have fired Kiyani and Pasha and brought in new faces----that was his Given oppurtunity.

Remember---QUIET MEN are worthless men----a man who doesnot speak up is a man not worth the job----those proverbial days of'the quiet man standing in the corner' are gone forever----. Men who are leaders speakup and lead frpom the front-----Kiyani doesnot talk----he looks meek and weak-----he maybe a great planner----but not a man to lead the national army.
 
Sir,

Thank you for your post---any statements by the army are SOB STORIES NOW----they are all excuses of one kind or the other-----. Now they are hiding behind this scenario because of their screwups of the past---remember the past comes and haunts you for the rest of your lives and it is going to be no different for the pak millitary-----.

You have to accept the fact now----pak millitary general staff has some major issues-----issues of not reading what the americans were doing since 9/11-----what we are paying for today is not what we did yesterday but what we didnot do 9 years ago-----this getting bitten in the behind is due to the games these millitary men played for the longest period of time.

You people give them too much credit---it is acceptable when it comes to bravery and laying down their lives and their courage most of the time is not in question----but war is more than dying for your country----the problem is with their strategy and gamesmanship-----the problem is with playing the game very loosely----.

Their assessment of the problem and issues with problem solving is not upto par-------. The OBL issue was the best thing to have happened to pak millitary----Gilani should have fired Kiyani and Pasha and brought in new faces----that was his Given oppurtunity.

Remember---QUIET MEN are worthless men----a man who doesnot speak up is a man not worth the job----those proverbial days of'the quiet man standing in the corner' are gone forever----. Men who are leaders speakup and lead frpom the front-----Kiyani doesnot talk----he looks meek and weak-----he maybe a great planner----but not a man to lead the national army.

Thanks for the reply, I’d try to be as articulate as I can, the matter I’m going to discuss is about the same scenario which you mentioned… the 9 years old one.. oh wait… it didn’t started 9 years ago… it started some 30 years ago… right when the US of A wanted USSR (as many come to know from history books), which was an equal and opposing power, destroyed… or should I start it from 1950? When Liaqat Ali khan made his pitch of Pakistan’s strategic importance to US of same A?... but wait… let me think.. do we need to go there? Will it change anything? Can we return it?? Can we mend the past?? Do we have a time machine??

The point I am raising is not about whether there were mistakes in the past or not… Let me ask you Mastan… don’t you think US messed up in war on terror? Didn’t they destroyed all of the world’s economy?? Do you even consider what is happening around the world?? Do you know the reason behind Libya’s destruction??... Yes you do… but do you see it explained or discussed on International Media?? Do you see ‘analysts’ and ‘specialists’ talking about it except few?? No.. Free Media??? No Sir, it is ‘Controlled Media’…

I would rather have Zia-ul-Huq back in power with ultimate control over the ‘madar pidar azaad’ media and its so-called analysts.. I would rather have him take away the ‘free media’ rights… It is destabilising the country more than WofT… they are increasing anarchy... sole reason of unrest...

No Sir, quite men are not worthless men… Do you think the USofA is being run by people you see?? If you do.. I’m sorry to say… you are living in dream lands… We made a mistake of bringing our ‘mitochondria’ out in open and made it vulnerable… now the only way for us to survive is to start a ‘chain reaction’… hope you understand what I mean…

There is something I’d like to suggest to you bro… try standing behind the right people for your own and your country’s sake… don’t judge them on the basis of what you ‘listen’… Analyse!

Just my two cents…

PS: I guess i didn't answer one thing... A game can only be played on equal terms... In this field of WofT... most of our 'beads' are playing for the 'opposite' team...
 
AAtish,

The issue here is that pakistan is still fighting the war of the 80-----. What pakistani generals arenot telling the pakistani public is that it was not america that wanted to get involved in that war---but it was pakistan that screwed america into getting involved---.

The station chief at that time in pakistan had told his govt----according to his analysis it would be a local conflict----and the russians are not interested to go any further than that and u s was fine with that and then Zia tricked them into this mess.

A game is never played on equal basis----there is no concept of equality between two participants each plays to his strengths.

There is not going to 'friends not masters' scenario-----that was an error on part of pakistan for not understandoing and accepting its position.

You people don't even treat your servants and poor relatives with equal status and respect----how do you expect to ask it from others----just because you are a nation----doesnot give you equal position of strength.

It is time that the old myths need to be changed----I have first person communication access to two to four of the top executives in pakistan---not directly by myself----but through a conduit----and the news is---a level of callousness and a lack of understanding and accepting the situation is prevalent in the top echelons of the govt. They are basically clueless as what to do----there is no concern at the top as what may happen in the future as how the u s is positioning itself after 9 years of wot.

Pakistanis also need to move ahead from the idea that OBL was a creation of the americans----well it maybe----but 23 years had past when he was----people need to take ownership of their actions---and can't put the blame on what someone did 20 plus years ago.

How many of you would want to be castigated for your sins committed 20 plus years ago.

My goodman----it is for the love of my country that I say these things over here----the messages that I sent to Kiyani and Pasha and Gilani were delivered to their desks and they read them----. The propsal for Kiyani was not subtle at all----.

What was it----12 frontier force men were executed a few days ago on video----where is the strike force in response to that. The general should have been acting like a mad man on a mission to take out those who executed the FC men.

There is no place for argument here----in today's world---there is no place for a quiet man----as a matter of fact----he is your worst enemy---.
 
Unfortunately, daily, the Pakistan army continues to waste away opportunities to connect with the people of Pakistan and instead chooses to connect with the CIA and such

been to Swat, Mohmand, Kurram, or any of the other agencies where a lot of the COIN ops were/are currently being conducted?

the top brass and the common foot soldier --unlike in the past when they hailed from upper middle class & elitist/bourgeois echelons of society --are now mostly comprised of people from middle class and even some lower echelon of society. That in itself is proof that not only does Pakistan Army connect with the masses of Pakistan, they are a PART of the people of Pakistan....they arent robots from a mass-production factory!

by the way, Dawn also reported this just the other day --- do you rely on ISPR for all your daily news, sir? I wouldnt expect you to.


My take on it....it was a "test" of some sort. Was it a setup? I dont know...but the fact that western media analysts talked about "tip offs" and what not --it was a win-win situation for those who 'orchestrated' this whole thing.

It's stupid of the western media to think we would allow bomb-factories to flourish, knowing where they are and who is operating them.....considering that scores of our civilians, and jawans have been killed/martyred --either being at the wrong place at the wrong time or the right place at the wrong time (hope it made sense)


and the people of Pakistan who doubt the Army intentions are only doing themselves and their country a disservice.....the Army is doing a lot of things that are not even part of its job description simply to fill in voids where the civilian govt. (true to its nature) continues to f*ck up and/or ignore.

no doubt that the Pakistanis should be careful and be more advised now about what so-called actionable "intelligence" it acts upon, as far as "intel-sharing" is concerned.....however it is NATO themself that is crying wolf, and that isnt exactly a favour they are bringing onto themselves.

if they are offended by Pakistan's recent policy of non-compliance, then this is certainly no way to overcome that!
 
Plus, thanks to US and ANA, the Taliban are in possession of some very sophisticated electronic equipment and its would be shocking to know that the taliban can even intercept our communication being done on the Harris radio sets provided by the very USofA. And this ability to them has been given by the same US & ANA.

So, in many instances the Taliban are knowing about our next move even before the ground forces of PA come to know about their next move.

i have heard from 'very credible' sources that members of the ANA are publicly known to sell their equipment to members of the very same taleban they are allegedly fighting

ragtag, undisciplined drug addicts will sell their own mothers just to get their fix, it seems...!

it should come as no surprise that the taleban have access to NATO standard equipment....from comm. equipment and interception equipment to small arms; medical equipment to NATO-issued night vision goggles.


a scary proposition, to say the least....but that's just how it is and something WE (not NATO) will have to accept and deal with.
 
My goodman----it is for the love of my country that I say these things over here----the messages that I sent to Kiyani and Pasha and Gilani were delivered to their desks and they read them----. The propsal for Kiyani was not subtle at all----

I'd be interested to know what you sent to his desk. Sir, would you mind sharing?

as for your patriotism, it's hard to ever question it. Nobody should.


What was it----12 frontier force men were executed a few days ago on video----where is the strike force in response to that. The general should have been acting like a mad man on a mission to take out those who executed the FC men.

with all due respect, I disagree. You can't get emotional, emotions alone get you killed. Their deaths will be avenged, no doubt about that!

But it has to be done cooly. After such incidents, cordons are set up. Sometimes locals get questioned. They cant go firing wildly, when the enemy easily blends in with the locals. There are 1,000,001 reasons why that would be a mistake.

There is no place for argument here----in today's world---there is no place for a quiet man----as a matter of fact----he is your worst enemy---.

sometimes its best to listen more, speak less, but regardless of it all --- act with precision to suit a given circumstance

actually it is the governments silence that is most deafening......when was the last time your president gave an address to the nation?
 
been to Swat, Mohmand, Kurram, or any of the other agencies where a lot of the COIN ops were/are currently being conducted?

the top brass and the common foot soldier --unlike in the past when they hailed from upper middle class & elitist/bourgeois echelons of society --are now mostly comprised of people from middle class and even some lower echelon of society. That in itself is proof that not only does Pakistan Army connect with the masses of Pakistan, they are a PART of the people of Pakistan....they arent robots from a mass-production factory!

by the way, Dawn also reported this just the other day --- do you rely on ISPR for all your daily news, sir? I wouldnt expect you to.


My take on it....it was a "test" of some sort. Was it a setup? I dont know...but the fact that western media analysts talked about "tip offs" and what not --it was a win-win situation for those who 'orchestrated' this whole thing.


Abou,

You are absolute correct----they know it---we know it----we got sand bagged----why did they have to inform us if they had the drones taking pictures of them----why did they not send in a drone strike----.

Abou----we should have jumped on it and said---is this some kind of joke----you make drone strikes where ever you want to when ever you want to---at your discreytion---at your choice-----what game are you playing----.

What I am saying is that someone needs to come and defend pakistan as well-----at the right time at the right place

You know that I know that---the pak army knows that there are no american troops on the afghan side of the border in waziristan----. The taliban can and do escape without the americans doing anything----how about supporting pak millitary through air strikes on the escaping taliban.

For 9 + years we have been playing the nice and quiet diplomacy and they are cutting the throats of our soldiers at their own discretion and pleasure---.

How long do you think the soldiers are going to accept that thing to continue----. Time is the worst enemy of the state in an insurgency----if the insurgents are allowed to get away with what they been doing for as long they have been doind----millitary cannot put this genie into the bottle again.
 

Mastan,

I’ll try to clarify your points one by one..

The issue here is that pakistan is still fighting the war of the 80-----. What pakistani generals are not telling the pakistani public is that it was not america that wanted to get involved in that war---but it was pakistan that screwed america into getting involved---.

Cold war was never between USSR and Pakistan, it was between USA and USSR, the bold part is exactly my point, public doesn’t need to know everything, that’s why we have leading people in different fields, otherwise societies won’t work. If you do that, its going to be anarchy everywhere, that is the sole reason of me being against ‘free’ media.

And USA got involved in USSR by themselves, they got screwed by themselves, If Pakistan was not there to help them, they would really have been screwed BIG time, might have involved some other entities.

The station chief at that time in pakistan had told his govt----according to his analysis it would be a local conflict----and the russians are not interested to go any further than that and u s was fine with that then Zia tricked them into this mess.

For your information, the station chief was wrong in his assessment, if that was the case (I would require a source for this from you)… Afghanistan was pro-Russia, at least Kabul was… there could have been no other logical reason for them to attack Afghanistan… At that time Pakistan had no other choice to protect itself from ‘possible’ attack of USSR.

The bold part is rather funny to read, you mean to say that ‘mighty’ USA was made fool out of by a single ‘third world country’ man? If so, then they were suppose to get screwed.. No my friend, they knew what they were getting into, they wanted it, they went for it…

A game is never played on equal basis----there is no concept of equality between two participants each plays to his strengths.

You missed the point or you intentionally tried to twist what I said.. my words were… Games are played on equal terms… not equal strengths… hope you know the difference…

There is not going to 'friends not masters' scenario-----that was an error on part of pakistan for not understandoing and accepting its position.

Again, you either are trying to play a dirty game or you don’t understand.. there are no friends or masters in this game… its purely playing the cards right… and at the moment, Pakistan has a stronger hand, the only problem is with the hands that are playing for our country, and I am not referring to Military top brasses, I’m talking about the political side.

You people don't even treat your servants and poor relatives with equal status and respect----how do you expect to ask it from others----just because you are a nation----doesnot give you equal position of strength.

N/A… read the above response…

It is time that the old myths need to be changed----I have first person communication access to two to four of the top executives in pakistan---not directly by myself----but through a conduit----and the news is---a level of callousness and a lack of understanding and accepting the situation is prevalent in the top echelons of the govt. They are basically clueless as what to do----there is no concern at the top as what may happen in the future as how the u s is positioning itself after 9 years of wot.

Thanks for elaborating, my point exactly, the cards are strong but the representatives are mentally retarded… you don’t need to rely on 2-4 of your acquaintance’s acquaintance, I’ve practically lived with those top executives for three years (more or less) working as System’s Analyst for PM secretariat… Bottom line? We need better representatives in Political side…

Pakistanis also need to move ahead from the idea that OBL was a creation of the americans----well it maybe----but 23 years had past when he was----people need to take ownership of their actions---and can't put the blame on what someone did 20 plus years ago.

Pakistanis have moved on from ‘creation’ of OBL… we are now stuck on ‘destruction’ of OBL (in case you’ve missed it)…

For the bold part… its US who needs to take this advice… not the Pakistanis…

How many of you would want to be castigated for your sins committed 20 plus years ago.

Irrelevant!

My goodman----it is for the love of my country that I say these things over here----the messages that I sent to Kiyani and Pasha and Gilani were delivered to their desks and they read them----. The propsal for Kiyani was not subtle at all----.

Kiyani and Pasha’s response has been clearly stated… Order and it will be delivered… No need to blame them… Gilani or Zardari does not give a damn about your personal messages as long as their swiss banks are being filled… My personal message to you… Act to change the Political side of servants… sack the ones who are incapable and recruit the ones who have the capability… after all, they are paid to do a job, nothing more…

What was it----12 frontier force men were executed a few days ago on video----where is the strike force in response to that. The general should have been acting like a mad man on a mission to take out those who executed the FC men.

On who’s order?? In case you don’t understand, army comes under the direct jurisdiction of President of Pakistan… If a direct order is not given by the Government, any such action would be considered ‘treason’, and hope you know the punishment for that…

There is no place for argument here----in today's world---there is no place for a quiet man----as a matter of fact----he is your worst enemy---.

There is really no need for argument here… This quote of yours is not worth it…

Cheers!
 
AAtish,

Thank you for your comments----I can understand where you are coming from----. Good luck.
 
US delayed information about IED factories: Maj Gen Rizwan
Updated 1 hour ago
WANA: The General Officer Commanding in South Waziristan, Major General Rizwan Akhter has blamed the US for attempting to embarrass Pakistan by delaying information about explosives factories located in the agency, Geo News reported.

While speaking to the media, the Major General said that a third force was creating hurdles in Pak-Afghan ties.


He also spoke on the situation in South Waziristan and emphasized that the priority is to win the hearts and minds of people as peace has been restored in most parts of the agency.

On the issue of foreigners in the agency he said that they were not present in most of the areas but could not confirm their elimination.

On June 14, then US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said that the Obama administration was disappointed by the unexplained failure of raids on militant compounds in the tribal areas.

Gates claimed that the CIA had shared information relating to IED factories being run by militants located in North and South Waziristan with Pakistan. However, when security forces raided the factories, the militants had disappeared. The Defense Secretary insisted that he did not know why the effort went awry.
US delayed information about IED factories: Maj Gen Rizwan

both sides has their views on the issue and both views are very different...
 
Sir,

Thank you for your post---any statements by the army are SOB STORIES NOW----they are all excuses of one kind or the other-----. Now they are hiding behind this scenario because of their screwups of the past---remember the past comes and haunts you for the rest of your lives and it is going to be no different for the pak millitary-----.

You have to accept the fact now----pak millitary general staff has some major issues-----issues of not reading what the americans were doing since 9/11-----what we are paying for today is not what we did yesterday but what we didnot do 9 years ago-----this getting bitten in the behind is due to the games these millitary men played for the longest period of time.

You people give them too much credit---it is acceptable when it comes to bravery and laying down their lives and their courage most of the time is not in question----but war is more than dying for your country----the problem is with their strategy and gamesmanship-----the problem is with playing the game very loosely----.

Their assessment of the problem and issues with problem solving is not upto par-------. The OBL issue was the best thing to have happened to pak millitary----Gilani should have fired Kiyani and Pasha and brought in new faces----that was his Given oppurtunity.

Remember---QUIET MEN are worthless men----a man who doesnot speak up is a man not worth the job----those proverbial days of'the quiet man standing in the corner' are gone forever----. Men who are leaders speakup and lead frpom the front-----Kiyani doesnot talk----he looks meek and weak-----he maybe a great planner----but not a man to lead the national army.

Can you condense your point into what actionable steps PA should be taking? How is firing Kayani or Pasha help Pakistan?
 
Slides

This is not strategic communication - US policy makers imagine that it is, but it's just silly tit for tat -- The strategic tilt or shift has already occurred and really the US is not too unhappy about it - so we must now see past these silly gestures -- Was Kashmir on the UN radar? No - Was it going to be? No
Will it be in the future? If the Indians make it a condition with the US, then yes, it will be.

Will that free the Indians from the South Asian cage? No! Will it bring the Indian into the US web of "Democracy" and all that? For Sure. Will the Indian play pet for the US? No.

The only card the US has is not so much the NSG, but access to capital - and India realize that it is the economy that enables military power, not the other way around - on the other hand, US is not the only venue for capital and India's trade potential with the Chinese cannot be rivaled by the US. Too much huff and puff and blow your house down, even as her own house is on shaky ground.

And for what? Al-Qaida? Think again - it's about Pakistan, it always has been, but Pakistan have already made their decision, there will bumps and hick ups, but for good or bad, Pakistan are no longer in the US orbit.
 
Can you condense your point into what actionable steps PA should be taking? How is firing Kayani or Pasha help Pakistan?

Hi,

Here is what was needed----we need somewhat of an american type of general----one day he is praises for pakistan---the next days he shoves his fist right up the -ar-se----a total game player and he does it with a smile on his face and he does it without prejudice and hate-----and we keep saying what the fcuk happened over here----he was all huggy and kissy yesterday----why this face change.

Kiyani is not the man-----he is past the "GONE BAD" expiry date----we needed a general who could have gone down in front of the tv and talked to american people with a smile on his face and told them what the americans had not done in the last 9 years and how they let obl escape so many times right from day minus one----and how the american politicians were saying that arresting obl was not important and the disbanding of the obl tracking team----he should have talked aboput no american troops onthe other side of the border to contain the escaping taliban from waziristan---

But before that---pakistani generals need a haircut badly----their hair is too long----un-soldier like-----they look disheveled----like they need grooming---the first appearnce of hair out of place does not look good---.
 
Mastan,

I’ll try to clarify your points one by one..





There is really no need for argument here… This quote of yours is not worth it…

Cheers!


Aatish,

Could you please expand on your statement---thanks.
 

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