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US debt hits 14 trillon.Dollars

I agree. It diverts the attention of the public. But Long term effect is not good. But who cares ? Government changes :mps:

No the only way, ironically, is to develop other energy sources. I'm not talking about the hippy nonsense. I'm talking about alternative energy in the sense of fusion power. Technological innovation will also create new jobs in the U.S. and around the world.
 
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They would rather sell their land for more funding and it is already happening in Idaho.

Check Manhatten, and see how many foreign countries have part in owning that piece of property in US....
 
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Yes those poor Libyans....

Regarding the debt issue, US has taken in past greater debt then it's GDP, the percentage was 120% to GdP. Here we are talking about raising the debt ceiling to close to 100%.

By reading other great bloggers dooms day seanario's, it excatly does not work like that. The way it works is, US as a free market economy has to grow (meaning the GDP, which happens only when there is lower taxes (my personal opinion)) at a certain rate, which would be the rate of Dam Useless Gov't borrowing to the GDP (Hard working people who actually create the country).......

My two cents in economic 101!!!

True and that was a little after WWII when America still have an industry. Times have changed however, Industrialization drifted eastwards and without it, they simply cannot enjoy what they have done in the past. Needless to say, a lot depends on its government and economic planning and reconstructing. America has been too well developed and its people too lavished in luxury to revert back to cheaper wages and sweatshop lifestyles in order to help boost America's economy. I do agree with siegecrossbow, that innovation creates jobs, but it is also looking bleak as the number of American engineers are actually in decline. They need to improve their educations systems if they want to pursue in that path. Problem is, how much time have they got to tinker with their systems and economic structure and how long would it take to see its effort bear fruit?

Check Manhatten, and see how many foreign countries have part in owning that piece of property in US....

I am not referring to real estates. I am referring to "special economic zones" where foreign nationals gets to establish its own self sufficient communities, foreign countries gets to bring in their own labours and be exempted from taxes.
 
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Obambam

Problem is, how much time have they got to tinker with their systems and economic structure and how long would it take to see its effort bear fruit?

Lot, Let me ask you a personal question. Have you ever owned a business of your own?

The reason I ask you this question, because you labour for years (Tinkering as you call it), but that one year creates more profit then you have worked for an employer can pay for a lifetime.

You have answered the question right about debt of US around WWII, and by the way it was before entering and at the time of fighting the war. Look at the graph after the war where US tinkered for years to bring it down, and that downward trend was not based on Gov't spending, but more so of economy growing based on not only by manufacturing but by technology also, a perfect example is Japaniese products in late 80's and 90's entering in the US economy, but the economy still showed robust progress..

The high horse that the Chinese are snorting is not based on technology development but by merely economic scale of production. Believe me, if any first world country has to compet based on economic scale value of manufacturing it can outdue Chinese model at any perspective.

The solutions to America's problem of growth that you speak about is not manufacturing jobs, it is more in perspective of taxation and gov't control. Majority of Blue chip companies of American are manufacturing in third world countries, but headquatered in US, where major taxation and gov't control applies to them....

Thanks....

PS,

The economic struture you speak off, then why is China using it today!!!!!!!!!
 
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The debt is so big even Binladin's alleged capture did not put a ripple in it ... just scary thought
 
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As already mentioned, we'll raise the debt ceilings as long as we can but that isn't going to benefit us in the long run.

This article explains how the debt has gone from a manageable 1 trillion before the Reagan administration tripled it through defense buildup and tax cuts and how it finally reached the ridiculous 14.3 million it is right now. Before we can deal with it, the Democrats and Republicans need to come some agreement on how to approach the issue.


U.S. debt limit debate down to wire - USATODAY.com
 
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Lot, Let me ask you a personal question. Have you ever owned a business of your own?

The reason I ask you this question, because you labour for years (Tinkering as you call it), but that one year creates more profit then you have worked for an employer can pay for a lifetime.

You have answered the question right about debt of US around WWII, and by the way it was before entering and at the time of fighting the war. Look at the graph after the war where US tinkered for years to bring it down, and that downward trend was not based on Gov't spending, but more so of economy growing based on not only by manufacturing but by technology also, a perfect example is Japaniese products in late 80's and 90's.

The high horse that the Chinese are snorting is not based on technology development but by merely economic scale of production. Believe me, if any first world country has to compet based on economic scale value of manufacturing it can outdue Chinese model at any perspective.

The solutions to America's problem of growth that you speak about is not manufacturing jobs, it is more in perspective of taxation and gov't control. Majority of Blue chip companies of American are manufacturing in third world countries, but headquatered in US, where major taxation and gov't control applies to them....

Thanks....

Actually I do run my own business, that's why I am located here in the UK and not in China. There is no need to inform me about working life and life savings etc:cheers:

Worker's mentality simply cannot be compared with someone who runs their own businesses. They work to save where as we employ, work invest and grow. Of course the success would depend a lot on the nature of the business and the way you run it.

When you talk about the history of the American economy especially in the times post WWII. You have to consider how the rest of the world was affected and they had to recover from the effects of the war. America on the other hand was different. Not only did they survive without scratches in its home, they've also brought in many German engineers to work for them. Hence technologically, they grew at a phenomenal pace with little competition elsewhere around the world. However, technology alone will not save the economy, just look at Japan now and you will see.

The high horse you so conveniently spoke of needs to be praised. How many would have imagined it to be in China? Regardless of China's economy being based on industrialization or not, that matters not a lot. What matters are, China took their chances and they made use of it well. Just like what America did post WWII. When you said "if any first world country has to compete based on economic scale value of manufacturing it can outdue Chinese model at any perspective." It made me wonder, which first world country in its present state of economy are able to come out and compete with China? and if so how? and why not do so now to safe their ailing economy?
Lets not forget that cost of labour, material, available infrastructures, business networks are already in established in China. Sometimes you just have to admit what is lost will not come back. When China finally moves on to other sectors of the economy, then these manufacturing jobs will most likely go to countries such as India or Vietnam, not back to the first world countries. Asof now, there is simply no other country who can match China's production output due to it's currency and low cost of production. Moreover they are not in debt and have $3 trillion foreign exchange reserve to invest in.

In regards to the blue chip companies and taxation. You would have to consider the cost of labour and production output. My guesses are little to non are Government-owned means there is little they could do to persuade them to come back, as a matter of fact, they may even end up driving them out altogether if they don't play their cards right. I've already said earlier that America's society and structure is different. Unless there is a surge of Americans looking for cheap manufacturing jobs and companies willing to employ, they are unlikely to compete with present China who's minimal wage structure would be too silly to be placed upon the table for comparisons. Can you see Americans working for a dollar an hour with unpaid over time?
Taxation can only do so much, but it will not be able to solve the present American fiscal crisis.

You are welcome.
 
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Lot, Let me ask you a personal question. Have you ever owned a business of your own?

The reason I ask you this question, because you labour for years (Tinkering as you call it), but that one year creates more profit then you have worked for an employer can pay for a lifetime.

You have answered the question right about debt of US around WWII, and by the way it was before entering and at the time of fighting the war. Look at the graph after the war where US tinkered for years to bring it down, and that downward trend was not based on Gov't spending, but more so of economy growing based on not only by manufacturing but by technology also, a perfect example is Japaniese products in late 80's and 90's entering in the US economy, but the economy still showed robust progress..

The high horse that the Chinese are snorting is not based on technology development but by merely economic scale of production. Believe me, if any first world country has to compet based on economic scale value of manufacturing it can outdue Chinese model at any perspective.

Not sure what snorting high horse are you in referencing too but many of today's major economies (barring those with huge natural resources) all had one time or another had a manufacturing base that generated wealth based on economies of scale which included technological innovations to drive down manufacturing cost and drive productivity. Your simplistic view of manufacturing makes China sound like they have competitive advantage solely due to having millions of cheap workers forgetting infrastructure, worker attitude, supply chain availability and solid government support. I have family friend who run major manufacturing conglomerates that have moved precision and high end industry from Singapore to China since the 90's. Moving them out now is out of the question due to endless supply chain contract manufacturers that contribute to the end product.

The solutions to America's problem of growth that you speak about is not manufacturing jobs, it is more in perspective of taxation and gov't control. Majority of Blue chip companies of American are manufacturing in third world countries, but headquatered in US, where major taxation and gov't control applies to them....

Lets put some blue chip companies to perspective. Lets say Google who generates massive profits which as you say go backs to the US (even better no manufacturing). What happens is situations like this will crop up
Google 2.4% Rate Shows How $60 Billion Lost to Tax Loopholes - Bloomberg
What The Top U.S. Companies Pay In Taxes - Forbes.com

The Blue chips does even worse to the US since post war, with the ever increasing indulgence of luxuries sprang up companies like Wal Mart and K mart etc which put say 100s of small businesses out of business. The small business which patriotically that may have ordered solely American products have now been consolidated with orders being places in China and India etc solely to drive down the price. The funnier thing is the government even gives these companies huge tax breaks and infrastructure incentives seeing that they promise increase employment etc only to end up paying bottom dollar to their employees.

Ultimately you cannot hide from the fact that the typical American is used to life on easy street. No one was complaining about currency manipulation during the boom years of real estate was because the sub prime actually allowed an unemployed vagrant to make more money trading property in rising house prices then actually working. Now that the house of cards has collapsed and people are finding it tough to make a living they pointing fingers at China, what they really should be doing is cutting down overseas defense spending and restricting mega companies like wal mart to redistribute the wealth a little.
 
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Obambam,

Asof now, there is simply no other country who can match China's production output due to it's currency and low cost of production. Moreover they are not in debt and have $3 trillion foreign exchange reserve to invest in.

Then I suggest you invest that money besides America, since it is a domesday scenario for the Americans!!!!!!!!!! Regarding the Currency issue, that requires a whole new thread.......

Lets not forget that cost of labour, material, available infrastructures, business networks are already in established in China. Sometimes you just have to admit what is lost will not come back.

It is not lost, but there is no interest in that business based on economic scale. American's business entreprises will not spend massive amount of money for a shoes, for example. Intern they will invest major amounts of funds on Tiles, for example, that cover the new rocket for the future.... That is where the focus is for America today!!!!!!!!!! And let me add Obama is doing a very bad job at it.......

In regards to the blue chip companies and taxation.

You really have no understanding in this regard after your response above.....

Thanks again...
 
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Anonymous user

Your simplistic view of manufacturing makes China sound like they have competitive advantage solely due to having millions of cheap workers forgetting infrastructure, worker attitude, supply chain availability and solid government support

This is the first time I have ever heard this sentence on this forum regarding me. I Have a CPIM certification, look it up then you will understand the simplistic manufacturing.........

Lets put some blue chip companies to perspective. Lets say Google who generates massive profits which as you say go backs to the US (even better no manufacturing). What happens is situations like this will crop up

And this is what makes you Stupid, Google, is an Service Industry...

Infact, talking about Service Industry, did you know that China is the highest importer of Service Industry. Your fantastic Preimier wen jiabao in Charlie Rose show said it loud and clear.......

Now that the house of cards has collapsed and people are finding it tough to make a living they pointing fingers at China, what they really should be doing is cutting down overseas defense spending and restricting mega companies like wal mart to redistribute the wealth a little.

You mean giving future order to China!!!!!!!!! I think American public would agree to redistributing the wealth.....
 
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Anonymous user

This is the first time I have ever heard this sentence on this forum regarding me. I Have a CPIM certification, look it up then you will understand the simplistic manufacturing.........

Your certification doesn’t mean squat to me if you cannot rationally reason beyond the points I made, it’s very clear China has a advantage in manufacturing not solely because of cheap labour but also because they have supply chain advantages in most electronic consumer products that we have today. This was built up over a period of years and decades for example to make a hard disk the supporting industries from chemical to contract manufacturers i.e hard disk stamping, platters, spindle motors etc are all clustered together to make the final product. So no country will suddenly “outdo” China in the near future simply because of the complexities in the supply chain developed over the years except maybe for textiles, simple electronics, plastics etc

eSupplyChain.eu - Supply Clusters: A Key to China

And this is what makes you Stupid, Google, is an Service Industry...

Infact, talking about Service Industry, did you know that China is the highest importer of Service Industry. Your fantastic Preimier wen jiabao in Charlie Rose show said it loud and clear.......

Thanks DIPSTICK its exactly because it’s a service industry that I used it as an example since they do not depend on manufacturing to generate revenue (read my original text)
Your argument was that blue chip companies generate revenue which can be taxed by the government to balance the deficit, I countered this with articles on Google and many fortune 500 companies doing exactly the opposite to evade taxes.

You mean giving future order to China!!!!!!!!! I think American public would agree to redistributing the wealth.....

Again you are missing the point, it does not matter who the order goes to but because the retail is now totally dominated by big companies they will do what’s needed to obtain goods at the lowest cost. So long as there are places that are cheaper than the US it will always go to that country hence the manufacturers in the US will not benefit.

In addition your counter arguments to myself and Obambam are really of low standard, you come up with initial opinions which we took time to counter and support with articles which you later skim thru and give a one liner rebuttal which are usually of no substance. If you think we’re wrong we are open to hearing your opinions assuming they are reasonable & of good standing and if so we stand to be corrected.
 
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Then I suggest you invest that money besides America, since it is a domesday scenario for the Americans!!!!!!!!!! Regarding the Currency issue, that requires a whole new thread.......

Then I suggest you read up more about Chinese investments before talking about how any first world countries can overtake China. Chinese investments are very diverse and if you seriously thinks that Chinese have their eggs all in one basket then you clearly have no idea about economics.

It is not lost, but there is no interest in that business based on economic scale. American's business entreprises will not spend massive amount of money for a shoes, for example. Intern they will invest major amounts of funds on Tiles, for example, that cover the new rocket for the future.... That is where the focus is for America today!!!!!!!!!! And let me add Obama is doing a very bad job at it.......

Yes it is lost. Lets talk about the statement you made about any first world countries can compete and beat China at it shall we? I would like to see you elaborate and go into details rather than making simplistic baseless statements. If America is as successful in economics as China is, then there will be no talks or speculations at all about China or India threatening America's position as the number one economy, instead, we'd be seeing America's companies all over the world and beating Asian companies out of Africa and Latin America. Fact is, America is already behind in the war of economy. They also have a poor laid out structure which explains its $14 trillion+ debt.

You really have no understanding in this regard after your response above.....

Thanks again...

Then come forward and elaborate on how the American blue chip companies can make more money by moving its factories back to America?
Please also tell us more about the differences in cost and productivity. I take it you don't see cost of labour and material as a problem to the companies. Moreover you think they are patriotic enough to give up their $ for the country. Businesses don't operate that way my friend, especially non government owned businesses. Other than giving companies incentives, they have no other control over them. Like I say, if they don't play their cards right, they may end up driving the companies out all together.


You are welcome.
 
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The big question is how long will the governments of the world will keep accepting the dollar or that the dollar will remain the reserve currency. In the last 10 years govnts around the world have reduced overall their exposure to the US$ by 10% from 70 to 60. If the likes of saudi stopped accepting dollars the party would be over the Americans couldnt even pay their soldiers salaries.

They will hit the tipping point I reckon within the next 5 to 10 years and I look forward to seeing their empire crashing. I look forward to Israel abusing palestinians etc without the Americans there to afford them their excesses.
 
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The big question is how long will the governments of the world will keep accepting the dollar or that the dollar will remain the reserve currency. In the last 10 years govnts around the world have reduced overall their exposure to the US$ by 10% from 70 to 60. If the likes of saudi stopped accepting dollars the party would be over the Americans couldnt even pay their soldiers salaries.

They will hit the tipping point I reckon within the next 5 to 10 years and I look forward to seeing their empire crashing. I look forward to Israel abusing palestinians etc without the Americans there to afford them their excesses.

I hope the U.S. economy would tank that way China will rise. Remember the Great Depression? After the Great Depression hit, Nazi Germany risen to power. No doubt China will benefit a downed U.S. economy. Wars will lessen. Other countries will become rich. The world economy boomed while the U.S. suffered during the 1930s.
 
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I hope the U.S. economy would tank that way China will rise. Remember the Great Depression? After the Great Depression hit, Nazi Germany risen to power. No doubt China will benefit a downed U.S. economy. Wars will lessen. Other countries will become rich. The world economy boomed while the U.S. suffered during the 1930s.

I would have preferred if China and US worked together to create a re-balance of world power and maybe a better future. With the way mankind is going I doubt we can sustain much longer with our model of growth (i.e consume, fossil fuels, pollution etc). Any world that one takes over will be an empty shell at the end of the day.
 
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