US Considers Sale of Armed Drones; But Does India Really Need Them?

[Zarvan]

India is developing its own armed drones which should be available to the armed forces in the next five-seven years. Experts say American drones could be purchased for deep surveillance into Pakistani and Chinese territory. But, there is no pressing need for armed drones as of now.

NEW DELHI (Sputnik) — Less than a week after citing an array of reasons behind its reluctance to share key defense technology with India, the United States has indicated its willingness to sell its state-of-the-art armed predator drones to the Indian Air Force (IAF). A top official from the Trump administration was quoted by the PTI as saying "yes, yes" to a question about whether the US was considering India's pending request for the purchase of the General Atomics Predator C Avenger unmanned aircraft as part of its armed forces' modernization drive.

READ MORE: Political Triangle: Prospects of US-India Alliance Amid China's Rise

"We are always looking into this, in terms of Foreign Military Sales, but really also in terms of broad defense cooperation on how to strengthen our relationship and cooperation," the official told PTI on condition of anonymity.

On October 18, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson clarified that the US was ready to share technology with India but would not part with some closely guarded defense technologies as it would hurt the country's competitive advantage. Tillerson, in his lengthy speech, however, did not specifically mention armed drones' technology.

"Indeed, he (Tillerson) offered the clearest statement by any US official yet about why India — designated "major defense partner" — can expect no cutting-edge military technology, EVER," Bharat Karnad, India's top defense analyst said.

In June this year, the US had cleared the sale of 22 unarmed MQ-9B Guardian UAVs to India for maritime surveillance. However, the Indian Navy is not keen on taking the deal forward as it is particularly interested in the armed version of the drone, which the US is reluctant to share.

READ MORE: Tillerson Calls for Stronger US-India Ties to Counter China's Growing Influence

India is developing its own armed drone "Ghatak." However, it is estimated that this will take at least five-seven years, if everything goes according to plan, to be available for the armed forces. Experts are of the view that India does not immediately require armed drones as it is not battling any adversary.

"My understanding is that India does not have a pressing need for armed drones, which are optimized for operations in permissive airspace. India is not fighting any adversary in permissive airspace. Both Chinese and Pakistan airspace is heavily contested. The IAF's interest in the MQ-9B and the Indian Navy's interest in the Heron TP stem from their excellent surveillance capabilities. The IAF wants to look deep into China and Pakistan while operating within the safety of Indian airspace," Vijainder K Thakur, former squadron leader of Indian Air Force told Sputnik.

If America approves the sale of armed drones to India, New Delhi will have to spend $8 billion on acquiring the system without any technology transfer.


https://sputniknews.com/military/201710231058462806-ghatak-drone-india-us-sale/

 

[takeitwithyou]

Russians they are still funding sputnik? I thought they moved everything to RT

 

[#hydra#]

I am not telling Its not a waste of money,but this money can be used for so many other defense needs.

 

[anant_s]

Of late Russian media channels have been critical of anything India is buying or considering buying from Non Russian sources. We heard similar voices when deal for 36 Rafale fighters was about to be signed.
Russia has lost a lot of defence market in India and perhaps the same source should introspect why improper support and arbitrary jacking of prices by Russia hasn't helped in far more increase in co-operation in defence sector between two countries.
For us, post 123 agreement, Defence is a Buyers market.

 

[maravan91]

Waste of money.

 

[Tom M]

India is developing its own armed drones which should be available to the armed forces in the next five-seven years. Experts say American drones could be purchased for deep surveillance into Pakistani and Chinese territory. But, there is no pressing need for armed drones as of now.

NEW DELHI (Sputnik) — Less than a week after citing an array of reasons behind its reluctance to share key defense technology with India, the United States has indicated its willingness to sell its state-of-the-art armed predator drones to the Indian Air Force (IAF). A top official from the Trump administration was quoted by the PTI as saying "yes, yes" to a question about whether the US was considering India's pending request for the purchase of the General Atomics Predator C Avenger unmanned aircraft as part of its armed forces' modernization drive.

READ MORE: Political Triangle: Prospects of US-India Alliance Amid China's Rise

"We are always looking into this, in terms of Foreign Military Sales, but really also in terms of broad defense cooperation on how to strengthen our relationship and cooperation," the official told PTI on condition of anonymity.

On October 18, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson clarified that the US was ready to share technology with India but would not part with some closely guarded defense technologies as it would hurt the country's competitive advantage. Tillerson, in his lengthy speech, however, did not specifically mention armed drones' technology.

"Indeed, he (Tillerson) offered the clearest statement by any US official yet about why India — designated "major defense partner" — can expect no cutting-edge military technology, EVER," Bharat Karnad, India's top defense analyst said.

In June this year, the US had cleared the sale of 22 unarmed MQ-9B Guardian UAVs to India for maritime surveillance. However, the Indian Navy is not keen on taking the deal forward as it is particularly interested in the armed version of the drone, which the US is reluctant to share.

READ MORE: Tillerson Calls for Stronger US-India Ties to Counter China's Growing Influence

India is developing its own armed drone "Ghatak." However, it is estimated that this will take at least five-seven years, if everything goes according to plan, to be available for the armed forces. Experts are of the view that India does not immediately require armed drones as it is not battling any adversary.

"My understanding is that India does not have a pressing need for armed drones, which are optimized for operations in permissive airspace. India is not fighting any adversary in permissive airspace. Both Chinese and Pakistan airspace is heavily contested. The IAF's interest in the MQ-9B and the Indian Navy's interest in the Heron TP stem from their excellent surveillance capabilities. The IAF wants to look deep into China and Pakistan while operating within the safety of Indian airspace," Vijainder K Thakur, former squadron leader of Indian Air Force told Sputnik.

If America approves the sale of armed drones to India, New Delhi will have to spend $8 billion on acquiring the system without any technology transfer.


https://sputniknews.com/military/201710231058462806-ghatak-drone-india-us-sale/

Non of Russia's business I guess. Our money, our wish.

 

[Fireurimagination]

IA can use drones against terrorists hiding in mountains and jungles and also against infiltrators sneaking across LOC. Few months of usage of unarmed drones that India is procuring from US can give a fair idea of the need of armed drones. If the IA believes that if their droned were armed they could have taken out 10 terrorists or 2 high value targets then they should go for it.

 

[#hydra#]

Of late Russian media channels have been critical of anything India is buying or considering buying from Non Russian sources. We heard similar voices when deal for 36 Rafale fighters was about to be signed.
Russia has lost a lot of defence market in India and perhaps the same source should introspect why improper support and arbitrary jacking of prices by Russia hasn't helped in far more increase in co-operation in defence sector between two countries.
For us, post 123 agreement, Defence is a Buyers market.

IA can use drones against terrorists hiding in mountains and jungles and also against infiltrators sneaking across LOC. Few months of usage of unarmed drones that India is procuring from US can give a fair idea of the need of armed drones. If the IA believes that if their droned were armed they could have taken out 10 terrorists or 2 high value targets then they should go for it.

My doubts are,
1) our two enemies are not a weak forces like Taliban,they are more than capable of shooting down any armed drones. Bot having very powerful airforce and army to dealt with such drones.
2)any attempt by india using its drone for offensive operation against china or pakistan will be treated as an act of war. In a full fledged war these toys are useless ( refer my point#1).
3) india have a policy of not using its airpower inside our own territory,except in situations like kargil war. That's why you are not seeing IA or IAF not using its gunships or fighter bombers on insurgents.
But navy is a good candidate for using drones,cheep alternative for stoping insurgency activities via indian sea route .

Also I do agree that it's our money,but 8 billion dollars is a hell lot of money according to me. And I don't agree throwing this much money out of my country on auseless things like drones,we are not supposed to waste our taxpayers money. Rather this finds should be utilised for offensive platforms like rafale or utilise this money in developing in-house drone technology.

 

[Fireurimagination]

My doubts are,
1) our two enemies are not a weak forces like Taliban,they are more than capable of shooting down any armed drones. Bot having very powerful airforce and army to dealt with such drones.
2)any attempt by india using its drone for offensive operation against china or pakistan will be treated as an act of war. In a full fledged war these toys are useless ( refer my point#1).
3) india have a policy of not using its airpower inside our own territory,except in situations like kargil war. That's why you are not seeing IA or IAF not using its gunships or fighter bombers on insurgents.
But navy is a good candidate for using drones,cheep alternative for stoping insurgency activities via indian sea route

Also I do agree that it's our money,but 8 billion dollars is a hell lot of money according to me. And I don't agree throwing this much money out of my country on auseless things like drones,we are not supposed to waste our taxpayers money. Rather this finds should be utilised for offensive platforms like rafale or utilise this money in developing in-house drone technology.

Whether India will use armed drones for surgical strikes across LOC is the decision the armed forces and political leadership will have to take together. But yes it's always better to use an armed drone for strikes instead of putting our soldiers in harms way. It's not that a drone strike on a terrorist training camp or launchpad will mean all hell will break lose especially with the growing disparity between the two forces. It's all about having the capability in your arsenal, being ready and using the capability as and when required.

 

[maravan91]

Whether India will use armed drones for surgical strikes across LOC is the decision the armed forces and political leadership will have to take together. But yes it's always better to use an armed drone for strikes instead of putting our soldiers in harms way. It's not that a drone strike on a terrorist training camp or launchpad will mean all hell will break lose especially with the growing disparity between the two forces. It's all about having the capability in your arsenal, being ready and using the capability as and when required.

Are you for real? Drones can be easily shot down

 

[anant_s]

My doubts are,
1) our two enemies are not a weak forces like Taliban,they are more than capable of shooting down any armed drones. Bot having very powerful airforce and army to dealt with such drones.
2)any attempt by india using its drone for offensive operation against china or pakistan will be treated as an act of war. In a full fledged war these toys are useless ( refer my point#1).
3) india have a policy of not using its airpower inside our own territory,except in situations like kargil war. That's why you are not seeing IA or IAF not using its gunships or fighter bombers on insurgents.
But navy is a good candidate for using drones,cheep alternative for stoping insurgency activities via indian sea route .

Also I do agree that it's our money,but 8 billion dollars is a hell lot of money according to me. And I don't agree throwing this much money out of my country on auseless things like drones,we are not supposed to waste our taxpayers money. Rather this finds should be utilised for offensive platforms like rafale or utilise this money in developing in-house drone technology.

Dear,
All offensive air resources usually aren't used in peace time, but please consider this news from pov of use of General Atomics Surveillance drones that Indian Navy is likely to acquire shortly. Indian foray in these high endurance UAV is relatively new and we will gain more and more experience of using them and devising strategies as we go on using them.
It is therefore important that these are acquired and forces get acclimatized on their use.
Now as for a hypothetical war, consider a following scenario. You have an artillery unit or foot soldiers brigade moving in APC, when these are detected and confronted. Among the options you have are to dispatch your own units (slow movement) or airborne offensive resources such as Attack choppers or aircraft (both again are costly) or use of tactical weapons (which again is limited in its range).
The newer option is use of UCAVs which have a much higher endurance and surveillance capability. With armament like hellfire missiles, they can halt the progress of such movement effectively if not bringing a retreat. This can give a commander longer time flexibility.
Also think back to Kargil conflict where Mirage 2000 was used for LGPB to vacate enemy positions in difficult terrains beyond reach of SAM. this job can also be taken up by UCAVs.
& to add to above this capability is now available at Night time as well.
Now to counter them, opposition would have to deploy additional resources which increases the cost of deploying a particular classical formation on ground whereas to neutralize them the countering resource viz UCAV carries much lesser cost.
So, with kind of history and battle tactics we have seen in past, UCAVs are going to be a massive advantage.

 

[Storm Force]

Drones is future of warefare both for survliance and strike

That's why USA and Israel lead he way

 

[#hydra#]

Drones is future of warefare both for survliance and strike

That's why USA and Israel lead he way

Exactly,they are the weapons of future. Not for the present. Its not wise to spent 8billions for this toys now,which can't stand in a full fledged war with pak & chinese,when both sides using its airpower in full swing there is no chance of its survivability. Rather we should spend that money for in-house development for from for tomorrow,we are doing the same mistake again and again. Yesteryear we spend money on imported fighters and didn't care about in-house in-house development,result is our struggle with lca. My point is instead of purchasing drone,spent money for R&D,DRDO may take time,they mat come up with mediocre models in beginning,but long run it will help us.

Dear,
All offensive air resources usually aren't used in peace time, but please consider this news from pov of use of General Atomics Surveillance drones that Indian Navy is likely to acquire shortly. Indian foray in these high endurance UAV is relatively new and we will gain more and more experience of using them and devising strategies as we go on using them.
It is therefore important that these are acquired and forces get acclimatized on their use.
Now as for a hypothetical war, consider a following scenario. You have an artillery unit or foot soldiers brigade moving in APC, when these are detected and confronted. Among the options you have are to dispatch your own units (slow movement) or airborne offensive resources such as Attack choppers or aircraft (both again are costly) or use of tactical weapons (which again is limited in its range).
The newer option is use of UCAVs which have a much higher endurance and surveillance capability. With armament like hellfire missiles, they can halt the progress of such movement effectively if not bringing a retreat. This can give a commander longer time flexibility.
Also think back to Kargil conflict where Mirage 2000 was used for LGPB to vacate enemy positions in difficult terrains beyond reach of SAM. this job can also be taken up by UCAVs.
& to add to above this capability is now available at Night time as well.
Now to counter them, opposition would have to deploy additional resources which increases the cost of deploying a particular classical formation on ground whereas to neutralize them the countering resource viz UCAV carries much lesser cost.
So, with kind of history and battle tactics we have seen in past, UCAVs are going to be a massive advantage.

Friend there is no way present day drones survives in intense battle which involves a worthy opponents with decent army and airforce,and I do believe that both paf & pa are capable opponent,and they will destroy it with ease. Imagine our 8billion worth toys becoming ashes with out bringing desired results in a battle, and I don't think a drone armed with few hellfire can block any Armada. Its a useful thing for IN for peace time surveillance in arabian sea,and it can be used (of course in indian controlled region and international water)against insurgents coming via sea route .

 

[Papa Dragon]

American drones are way too expensive and come with no ToT & a lot of strings attached. With drone warfare being the future and even the US considering unmanned planes for it's 6th gen fighters, India should stop investing in buying drones and rope in the private sector along with DRDO/ARDE/HAL to enhance the development of unmanned platforms, which can even be used in the development of unmanned version of AMCA in the long run