US Considers F-35 Aircraft Sale To UAE

[Saif al-Arab]

With or without trolling, we all know that if they're talking about it there's Israel consent for the issue

So you are saying that Israel decides what the Americans are going to export abroad? Did Israel also give a green light for Turkey and other nations?

Will you give a green light to KSA if we ask politely?

UAE being vanguard of the ummah surely would these F-35s pose a threat to Israel?

Bro, UAE does not claim to be any such thing. You know this very well. UAE is one of the more progressive Muslim states. I think that the results and ground realities on the ground do the speaking for me.

How can tiny UAE (with an even smaller population than Israel, in fact 4-5 times smaller) pose a threat to Israel let alone when Israel is basically an Western/US vanguard?

If you want to go to war with Israel you should be willing to face the Yankees and much of the Western world.

UAE or KSA is no threat to Israel ...

No regional country is a threat against the US and the West. So your post is not exactly breaking news. BTW this includes Pakistan. And mentioning nukes is not part of the equation as we all know what would happen if Pakistan attempted such a thing. Neither Israel nor Pakistan would exist.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

With or without trolling, we all know that if they're talking about it there's Israel consent for the issue

You may or may not conclude I was trolling but what I posted was in fact double-entendre and the intended recipients were 'faggot' Pakistanis.

That being my terms for speciies of Pakistan [rather unfortunately existing in large numbers] who actually worship KSA/UAE for two reasons. First they equate them as a synoyms of Islam and second because they think these countries are vanguard of the ummah and opposed to the 'Zionist Sate of Israel".

When I know that is quite the opposite. And no I am not a Anti-Semite or anything. I may not agree with many of Israel's policies but I think she is here to stay and Pakistan should recognize her and further I would like to see PAF training with IAF to learn how they "kick Arab butt".

Shalom.

@Sharif al-Hijaz

I have no issue with KSA or UAE policies. I think you mistake me for being against either. I am against certain species of Pakistanis as I alluded to the post above. As incidental to that I end up sometimes disparaging KSA/UAE whereas I real angst is against certain group of Pakistanis who think beyond the 'ummah' that they have inhaled. I hope you understand. That is why I am excited about MBS because he might wake these fools up by giving them a slap back to reality.

 

[YeBeWarned]

At the moment, there's no knowing in the middle east.
Surely, if aliens will land on earth, unlike american movies, we all know where the conflict will occur

ME is in Chaos , every one is busy in saving their own country from proxies ..
I am glad if Aliens ever decide to show up they rarely visit ME and Asia most of them often land on Land of Opportunities

 

[DavidSling]

So you are saying that Israel decides what the Americans are going to export abroad? Did Israel also give a green light for Turkey and other nations?

Will you give a green light to KSA if we ask politely?



Bro, UAE does not claim to be any such thing. You know this very well. UAE is one of the more progressive Muslim states. I think that the results and ground realities on the ground do the speaking for me.

How can tiny UAE (with an even smaller population than Israel, in fact 4-5 times smaller) pose a threat to Israel let alone when Israel is basically an Western/US vanguard?

If you want to go to war with Israel you should be willing to face the Yankees and much of the Western world.



No regional country is a threat against the US and the West. So your post is not exactly breaking news. BTW this includes Pakistan. And mentioning nukes is not part of the equation as we all know what would happen if Pakistan attempted such a thing. Neither Israel nor Pakistan would exist.

http://militaryedge.org/israels-qualitative-military-edge-legislative-background/

Certification Requirement Relating Israel’s Qualitative Military Edge—‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Any certification relating to a proposed sale or export of defense articles or defense services under this section to any country in the Middle East other than Israel shall include a determination that the sale or export of the defense articles or defense services will not adversely affect Israel’s qualitative military edge over military threats to Israel.’”

Additionally, the Resolution also defined “Qualitative Military Edge” in Section 205:

The term ‘‘qualitative military edge’’ means the ability to counter and defeat any credible conventional military threat from any individual state or possible coalition of states or from non-state actors, while sustaining minimal damages and casualties, through the use of superior military means, possessed in sufficient quantity, including weapons, command, control, communication, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capabilities that in their technical characteristics are superior in capability to those of such other individual or possible coalition of states or non-state actors.

 

[The SC]

UAE wants to buy 24 F-35s

Four F-35 Lightning II aircraft prepare for takeoff at Hill Air Force Base, Utah, May 4. (U.S. Air Force photo/Paul Holcomb)


DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — The United Arab Emirates Air Force will undergo a restructuring, guided in part by plans to buy two squadrans of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.

“We are currently forming a specialized committee to assess the risks, threats and needs of the UAE Air Force,” and then evaluate available platforms to meet requirements, according to an Emirati military source.

Much of the focus at the Dubai Air Show has been on the Gulf country’s progress toward authorization to purchase the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. According to military sources with knowledge of the matter, “the talks between the two parties are [focused on] sensitive systems in the aircraft that need export permit.” The sources refused to disclose the value of the deal, but said it would be limited in the first phase to the purchase of two squadrons, or 24 aircraft.

At the air show, the deputy commander of the UAE Air Force and air defense, Brig. Gen. Rashed M. Al Shamsi stressed the importance of “strengthening the UAE air capacity” in response to a question about the potential F-35 acquisition. He noted that “equipping the Air Force requires connected multi-role platforms with the ability to share data, enhanced intelligence collection and distribution of the capabilities, a responsive and persistent C4ISR, and a timely and reactive dynamic targeting process.”

For his part, Staff Maj. Gen. pilot Abdullah A.Al Hashimi, assistant undersecretary for support services in the UAE ministry of defense, commented on the matter: “We in the UAE already live in a 5th generation environment; so acquiring the F-35 fighter jet is only a step forward to cope with the 5th generation mindset.”

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is also seeking to procure the F-35 jets, and talks are making an important progress, as stated by officials who refused to be named.

Gen. Stephen Wilson, the Air Force’s vice chief of staff, stressed the importance of the United State’s ongoing pursuit of potential new F-35 customers including the Gulf nation, since “we share threats, interests and responsibilities. We are going to explore options for those nations and partners to benefit from this capability.”

The vice chief of staff also replied to a question about possible adaptations needed for the F-35 to operate effectively in the Gulf environment, stating that “the fighter is used globally and doesn’t need any accommodations. The 5th-generation concept is about the sensor fusing of information and its networking.”

Ahmad Temsah, CEO of the Center on Regional & Eastern Studies, pointed to the growing Iranian threat as the key motivator to acquiring the F-35, adding that “nowadays, the main Gulf states enemy is Iran, an imminent and dangerous aggression.”

The UAE Air Force is also working on modernizing its pilot training schools by introducing a field training program focused on air encounters similar to the ones adopted by countries in Europe and the U.S.

Air Commander Philippe Adam, commander for operations in the aviation brigade at the French Air Force said that “the UAE military capabilities are getting better with time, and this was reflected in the Yemeni conflict. It is astonishing what they have accomplished in few years.”

“The challenge they might face in the near future is the know-how to use [new] systems in the battlefield,” as well as improvements to intelligence and surveillance capabilities, he added.

The UAE Air Force relies primarily today on 124 F-16 Block 60 and 65 Mirage-2000 fighter jets, which have been battle proven in the Yemeni conflict among others.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital.../uae-undertakes-air-force-restructuring-plan/

 

[HannibalBarca]

UAE lipservice in all his glory... Israel don't regret it later on...

With or without trolling, we all know that if they're talking about it there's Israel consent for the issue

yes

So you are saying that Israel decides what the Americans are going to export abroad? Did Israel also give a green light for Turkey and other nations?

Will you give a green light to KSA if we ask politely?



Bro, UAE does not claim to be any such thing. You know this very well. UAE is one of the more progressive Muslim states. I think that the results and ground realities on the ground do the speaking for me.

How can tiny UAE (with an even smaller population than Israel, in fact 4-5 times smaller) pose a threat to Israel let alone when Israel is basically an Western/US vanguard?

If you want to go to war with Israel you should be willing to face the Yankees and much of the Western world.



No regional country is a threat against the US and the West. So your post is not exactly breaking news. BTW this includes Pakistan. And mentioning nukes is not part of the equation as we all know what would happen if Pakistan attempted such a thing. Neither Israel nor Pakistan would exist.

Yes, lets not be one sided... you know yourself that those F-35 are sold only bc UAE stance toward Israel... and Iran ... Just accept it... it's not smthing bad. it's just the truth.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@Kaptaan

I understand you perfectly and we are in agreement with most issues (I have noticed). However I have to correct you. At least when it comes to PDF, I have noticed that the people that you are referring to are mostly cheerleading for the Mullah's in power in Iran. They are deemed more Islamic and I am more than fine with that. Let it continue.

As for past Arab-Israeli wars (it was in reality Egypt-Israel wars more than anything), most of the Israeli soldiers were Arab Jews (Jewish migrants from Yemen, Iraq, Morocco, Egypt, Syria, Libya, KSA (yes, also), Algeria) etc. Most of the Israeli Jewish population is of Arab Jewish/Mizrahi origin, including the Israeli user in this thread @DavidSling

The failure was more a failure of structure (it helps not being ruled by largely incompetent regimes) and strategy rather than Israelis somehow being "superior". Have in mind that some Israeli Arabs also fought on the side of Israel. If Israelis/Jews were inherently superior on the military field they would not have been arguably one of the most persecuted and longest stateless people in history. If one looks at military history and compares Arab and Jewish history it is a universe or two apart and NOT in the favor of Israel. A few past 40+ year old conflicts are not going to change that. It's like a small chapter in a very long book with hundreds of chapters.

Also the conflicts proved once again that Western weaponry is superior to USSR/Russian equivalents.

Yes, lets not be one sided... you know yourself that those F-35 are sold only bc UAE stance toward Israel... and Iran ... Just accept it... it's not smthing bad. it's just the truth.

Why should I blame the regime in UAE for looking after its own interests, their safety and the prosperity of their people? Why don't you say the same about Turkey who have actually recognized Israel? Why the double standard? UAE won't pose a threat to Israel regardless. You expect 1.5-2 million natives over 1000 km away from Israel to pose a threat to an extension of the US/West in the region that is moreover nuclear armed? Really? Also I am not sure where Iran comes into the picture. You know the same Iran that was Israel's closest ally pre-1979 in the region by far.

If Egypt (the ones that have done the by far most in fighting Israel) and Jordan can recognize Israel and have diplomatic ties why the hell can UAE not? Is there any logic in that? UAE was not involved in those wars for all I know.

This Israel-Iran animosity is starting to sound like some kind of old couple arguing for the sake of it. A lot of talk but no action or real hostility. If Israel/West/US wanted to invade Iran they could have done it ages ago when Iran was on the brink of collapse. For instance after attacking Saddam Hussein in 1991. I don't buy it quite frankly but of course Israel do not want a nuclear-armed Iran (or any other regional country) but that's about it.

As far as I am aware of Israel would also prefer Al-Assad to continue his rule. The same Al-Assad dynasty that has let Israel steal the Golan Heights (Syrian territory) and never doing anything to reclaim it again. The Israeli-Syrian border has been the most stable for a reason.

http://militaryedge.org/israels-qualitative-military-edge-legislative-background/

Certification Requirement Relating Israel’s Qualitative Military Edge—‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Any certification relating to a proposed sale or export of defense articles or defense services under this section to any country in the Middle East other than Israel shall include a determination that the sale or export of the defense articles or defense services will not adversely affect Israel’s qualitative military edge over military threats to Israel.’”

Additionally, the Resolution also defined “Qualitative Military Edge” in Section 205:

The term ‘‘qualitative military edge’’ means the ability to counter and defeat any credible conventional military threat from any individual state or possible coalition of states or from non-state actors, while sustaining minimal damages and casualties, through the use of superior military means, possessed in sufficient quantity, including weapons, command, control, communication, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capabilities that in their technical characteristics are superior in capability to those of such other individual or possible coalition of states or non-state actors.

Thanks for proving what I wrote initially in this thread, cousin.

 

[HannibalBarca]

@Kaptaan

I understand you perfectly and we are in agreement with most issues (I have noticed). However I have to correct you. At least when it comes to PDF, I have noticed that the people that you are referring to are mostly cheerleading for the Mullah's in power in Iran. They are deemed more Islamic and I am more than fine with that. Let it continue.

As for past Arab-Israeli wars (it was in reality Egypt-Israel wars more than anything), most of the Israeli soldiers were Arab Jews (Jewish migrants from Yemen, Iraq, Morocco, Egypt, Syria, Libya, KSA (yes, also), Algeria) etc. Most of the Israeli Jewish population is of Arab Jewish/Mizrahi origin, including the Israeli user in this thread @DavidSling

The failure was more a failure of structure (it helps not being ruled by largely incompetent regimes) and strategy rather than Israelis somehow being "superior". Have in mind that some Israeli Arabs also fought on the side of Israel. If Israelis/Jews were inherently superior on the military field they would not have been arguably one of the most persecuted and longest stateless people in history. If one looks at military history and compares Arab and Jewish history it is a universe or two apart and NOT in the favor of Israel. A few past 40+ year old conflicts are not going to change that. It's like a small chapter in a very long book with hundreds of chapters.

Also the conflicts proved once again that Western weaponry is superior to USSR/Russian equivalents.



Why should I blame the regime in UAE for looking after its own interests, their safety and the prosperity of their people? Why don't you say the same about Turkey who have actually recognized Israel? Why the double standard? UAE won't pose a threat to Israel regardless. You expect 1.5-2 million natives over 1000 km away from Israel to pose a threat to an extension of the US/West in the region that is moreover nuclear armed? Really? Also I am not sure where Iran comes into the picture. You know the same Iran that was Israel's closest ally pre-1979 in the region by far.

This Israel-Iran animosity is starting to sound like some kind of old couple arguing for the sake of it. A lot of talk but no action or real hostility. If Israel/West/US wanted to invade Iran they could have done it ages ago when Iran was on the brink of collapse. For instance after attacking Saddam Hussein in 1991. I don't buy it quite frankly but of course Israel do not want a nuclear-armed Iran (or any other regional country) but that's about it.

As far as I am aware of Israel would also prefer Al-Assad to continue his rule. The same Al-Assad that have left Israel steal the Golan Heights (Syrian territory) and never doing anything to reclaim it.

UAE can do whatever she wants... it's a sovereign nation and therefore choice whatever she wants to do. It's good to have an arab country to get F-35... am not against it...

What bother me... it's their stance as being the "role model" of the Ummah... even thou' their stance with Israel per exemple... like their sheiks say at every events they go in...
Turkey recognised Israel...but they accepted it at least... Israelis are not banned from their countries and they do open biz... smthing that the hypocrit side of UAE is not...even thou it's the country WHO is the most pro-Israel... (behnd the doors)
And don't get me wrong... Qatar is the same and KSA in some extent too...
The thing is... just Embrace it and keep that Hypocrisy stance away and STOP to say otherwise everytime they visit a country... ppl sees it and it's frustrating...

Anyway... Good Luck for them.

 

[cloud4000]

If Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states want to acquire the F-35, they will get it. Both Israel and Gulf states operate F-15s and F-16s, so why not the F-35?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

UAE can do whatever she wants... it's a sovereign nation and therefore choice whatever she wants to do. It's good to have an arab country to get F-35... am not against it...

What bother me... it's their stance as being the "role model" of the Ummah... even thou' their stance amongIsrael per exemple... like their sheiks say at every events they go in...
Turkey recognised Israel...but they accepted it at least... Israelis are not banned from their countries and they do open biz... smthing that the hypocrit side of UAE is not...even thou it's the country WHO is the most pro-Israel...

Anyway... Good Luck for them.

Does UAE even have any "Islamic" agenda for the region? I have never heard about such a thing nor do I see any such examples. As far as I am aware UAE and Turkey were the only countries that took part in the US-sponsored war in Afghanistan.

Actually that is changing from what I can see and I am not sure if they are the most "pro-Israel" country in the region. I am sure that there are different arguments about that.

As for recognizing or not recognizing, the locals/people in the region/Muslims worldwide are not ready for such a thing. You know what could happen. Rather let pragmatic diplomats and people deal with this part.

Those who want to take on the entire West/USA/world for that matter, there are certain groups that they can join. I for once am no longer going to fool myself.

The truth is that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a conflict that only those two participants can solve. Arabs and the entire world have tried. Using all kind of steps. Non-peaceful too. As the only countries in the world. Nothing came out of it. Yes, we sympathize with Palestinians, yes we host millions of them, yes we consider them as our brothers and sisters, yes we support their nationhood but there are limits when the ground realities are as they are. If Israel had no nukes and was not the most precious US ally abroad (maybe only the UK are close), it would be another story. If WW2 did not occur or WW1 etc.

As for hypocrisy in general, no state is innocent of it or party. That's just how the world is. UAE is no devil nor a saint in this regard.

You know if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

If Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states want to acquire the F-35, they will get it. Both Israel and Gulf states operate F-15s and F-16s, so why not the F-35?

Well, if UAE will get the F-35 you can rest assured that KSA will as well and more of them as well for obvious reasons. I personally won't object. Which sane person would? As for the crying? Do I care? Not the slightest obviously.

 

[blain2]

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...e-eastern-county-after-israel-to-get-the-f-35

All the issues pertaining to such a purchase.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Rather let pragmatic diplomats and people deal with this part.

it's those same guy who put the region where she is right now... Those ppl play for their own horses... those below are just "things" to be used for their own benefits...

and when UAE get lastest available (restricted) sys ( THAAD-F35 and so on) before KSA... you know they are deep in it...very deep. A decade ago... it will be inimaginable for someone around the region to get smthing before KSa... time has changed...

 

[Khafee]

The UAE Air Force relies primarily today on 124 F-16 Block 60 and 65 Mirage-2000 fighter jets, which have been battle proven in the Yemeni conflict among others.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital.../uae-undertakes-air-force-restructuring-plan/

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...e-eastern-county-after-israel-to-get-the-f-35

All the issues pertaining to such a purchase.

 

[blain2]

You need to re-read what I posted incase you missed the points about the outstanding issues and the possibility of being offered a custom (read less capable) platform. If UAE get a fully spec'd aircraft, that is excellent for them, but I do not think that will happen.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

it's those same guy who put the region where she is right now... Those ppl play for their own horses... those below are just "things" to be used for their own benefits...

So they like any officials in the world representing states are looking for their own interests. That's not exactly breaking news bro. Do you really think that this is exclusive to UAE?

As for UAE being behind the Palestinian-Israeli conflict etc. well that is quite frankly as logical as saying that Australian aboriginals originate from Finland.

You can like, dislike or whatever the UAE government but don't blame them for playing the game that everyone is playing. So far they are doing well for their country and people and that is the most important part for the rulers and dare I say the people as well.

I frankly wish the same for KSA under MbS and all other Arab nations. Enough of silly projects that have done us nothing more than harm. People in KSA know. The few that refuse to see the truth in the eyes still pretend. This is their lose. When I was a young teenager (10-13 years old) and first became truly interested in politics I had "similar" simplistic views. But old age (I am in my early 20's so not a senior yet) usually tends to help with that for most people. Logically thinking/pragmatic people that is.

Morals and ethics are fine and all that (mostly limited to books and sociology classes etc.) but the truth is that the world is a jungle. This won't help you out there in most cases.

It that was the case there would be no Palestinian-Israeli conflict. You know this and I know this.

@Khafee is the better person to discuss this with as I am not from the UAE.

and when UAE get lastest available (restricted) sys ( THAAD-F35 and so on) before KSA... you know they are deep in it...very deep. A decade ago... it will be inimaginable for someone around the region to get smthing before KSa... time has changed...

That's fine with me. KSA will be fine even more so when ties with China and Russia are reaching new levels and cordial ties remain with key Western European and Muslim allies alike. Who gets what first is not important (RSAF is still a formidable force) as long as KSA gets (rather pays) as well. Does anyone here remember who got the first F-16's when they went for export of all those countries that operate them? I don't know unless I google it.

BTW let us see what it ends with. For all we know this might not happen and KSA might get them before or not at all. There will always be alternatives regardless. It's not the end of the world and frankly I rather invest in education, infrastructure, science etc. than military. KSA is already more than WELL prepared for any regional threats. I frankly don't see a single country attacking KSA any time soon. Makkah and Madinah helps on that, so does geography, size, current politics, the resistance of the people etc.